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ikkedylandus
06-21-2009, 02:03 PM
It's been discussed a lot, first on MA, now back on THEOL,
15: Manson's Birthday 5 January, 1/5 = 15
The Devil is the 15th card of the Major Arcana.
And SO on..
Post your own interpretations..

The Empirical Guy
06-21-2009, 09:49 PM
Oh, there are dozens of them. It seemed every couple of weeks someone was finding new ones. Is there somewhere that archived the phant threads on this? People were always finding stuff on there. The most recent one, which I found interesting, is that there are 51 songs in the Triptych (counting track 99 on ACSS, and Untitled on MA). Of course, Manson stated the Triptych went backwards, and so 51=15.

I'm disappointed though that he didn't specifically plant 15 references to 15. There's way more than that though.

absinthe bunny
06-22-2009, 01:35 PM
I'm disappointed though that he didn't specifically plant 15 references to 15. There's way more than that though.

Or 15 references to 15 references to 15 references of 15 :-)

Here are some I know, often unintended and just fan discoveries IMO, but cool to search for:

Personally related to Manson:
1.His birthday 1/5
2.Brian Hugh Warner has 15 letters

Mechanical Animals album:

1.cover reads 'Mar1lyn Man5on'
2. track title 'New Model no. 15'
3.15 squares on the Omega logo's forehead
4.booklet of MA has 'ma3x5./bk' in it: 3x5=15
5.booklet of MA has 'co51.24ahx' in it: 51 ~ 15 backwards
6.booklet of MA has a big '15' next to the '1234567891011121314' MA lyrics sheet indicates the hidden 15th track on the cd
7.lyrics of IDLTDBTDLM: 'we are ready for our 15 minutes of fame'
8.MA release date september 15 1998 (or 9/15 (9+1+5=15)
9.booklet of MA has an image of a scale showing an indicator passing 15 (Fundamentally Loathsome sheet)
10.'New Model': the word 'new' appears 15 times in the lyrics sheet. The number of lines not including the chorusses is 15. 'New' (3 letters) x 'Model' (5 letters) = 15
11.The website used to have a message '015' by Manson in the MA era
12.The sum of the tracks that made it to a single is 2 (TDS) + 6 (IDLTDBTDLM) + 9 (RID) = 15
13.2 pictures + 3 pills + 4 resuscitation pictures + 3 keyboard pictures + 3 graphical instructions = 15
14.'O' is the 15th letter of the alfabeth (Omega / hollow as the 'O' in God)
15.MA booket: '325mg' (read it as 3 'to' 5 = 3x5 = 15)
16.IDLITDBTDLM video: the kid wears a jersey with 87 on it (8+7 = 15)
17.'15 appears on the TV screen as the channel's logo

Other eras:
1.Tarot card 15: devil card
2.Tracks '15' and 'fifteen' on the THEOL album

The Empirical Guy
06-22-2009, 06:51 PM
12.The sum of the tracks that made it to a single is 2 (TDS) + 6 (IDLTDBTDLM) + 9 (RID) = 15


Wow, never spotted that before. Does the man really plan this, or is it all some giant, galactic coincidence.

Are we sure we shouldn't count CW though? Not a single per se, but released as a radio promo with a video.

absinthe bunny
06-23-2009, 10:33 AM
Wow, never spotted that before. Does the man really plan this, or is it all some giant, galactic coincidence.

Are we sure we shouldn't count CW though? Not a single per se, but released as a radio promo with a video.

I'm sure the man didn't plan them all, just obsessed fans looking waaay to deep in it :-) But it's interesting to read them.

Mexicanfiend
06-23-2009, 11:33 AM
12.The sum of the tracks that made it to a single is 2 (TDS) + 6 (IDLTDBTDLM) + 9 (RID) = 15


Wow, never spotted that before. Does the man really plan this, or is it all some giant, galactic coincidence.

Are we sure we shouldn't count CW though? Not a single per se, but released as a radio promo with a video.

2 + 6 + 9 = 17, not 15.

Plus, Coma White had a video release... that must count, doesn't it?

absinthe bunny
06-23-2009, 12:49 PM
2 + 6 + 9 = 17, not 15.

Plus, Coma White had a video release... that must count, doesn't it?

Sorry mistake in the post, it should be:
The dope show 2
Rock is Dead 4
IDLTDBTDLM 9
=15

But good point about the CW video indeed. Seems there has been an over-enthousiastic fan who's '15' I wrote down without looking closely enough. But when I think about it, it would count if you only count the ones with a single release (not counting CW since it's only on promotional single available as far as I know).

ikkedylandus
06-23-2009, 01:41 PM
Or 15 references to 15 references to 15 references of 15 :-)

You're searching Far.. =PP

S.D.
06-23-2009, 01:53 PM
Obviously you cannot have an uneven number of pages to something, but if you consider that the central image of Manson across the chair is one single image, that means that the Mechanical Animals booklet has fifteen separate "panels", as all the other pages represent a solitary unit.


http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/providermodule/Analysis/Booklet.jpg

The Empirical Guy
06-23-2009, 09:40 PM
Another good find, S.D.

I think it's interesting how with the new album he's been paying recognition to the fact that 15 "just keeps happening". Which leads me to think that not all are intentional.

06-23-2009, 10:02 PM
S.D., that's brilliant, and I never thought of looking at his booklets as panels. Hmm... Triptych itself means panel paintings... I wonder if you place the Antichrist Superstar, Mechanical Animals, and Holy Wood booklets together... if maybe there's something to find....

S.D.
06-24-2009, 12:08 AM
Triptych itself means panel paintings... I wonder if you place the Antichrist Superstar, Mechanical Animals, and Holy Wood booklets together... if maybe there's something to find....

I couldn't comment on that notion, but I will say that if anyone could locate a quote where Manson describes Antichrist Superstar as being like an image (or pertaining to image-making tools), I'd be very interested, purely because there is a fairly well known quote in which he compares Mechanical Animals and Holy Wood as things with which you could create a picture, saying that the former is like a paintbrush, and the latter a pencil:





"both can be used to make an image, but this [Holy Wood] is more effective for jabbing someone in the eye with." - MM

Hate Sells
06-26-2009, 02:55 PM
Didn't someone mention Area 51 in another thread...? (I'm pretty sure it was S.D....) And 51 reversed is 15, I had never even thought about that one...


S.D., that's brilliant, and I never thought of looking at his booklets as panels. Hmm... Triptych itself means panel paintings... I wonder if you place the Antichrist Superstar, Mechanical Animals, and Holy Wood booklets together... if maybe there's something to find....

That's an interesting idea...we should all look for "15" references in the Triptych as a whole...who knows, maybe we'll find something, lol.

BTW, the "spoiler" thing you mentioned (in your sig...?); I think it is for if some people haven't heard/seen something and you don't want to unintentionally ruin it for them, then you use the spoiler tag. That way, the "spoiler" in question only shows up when you highlight the text, or click "show". ;)

absinthe bunny
06-28-2009, 02:36 AM
Here is one I saved and found cleaning out my pc, I think it was on the Heirophant, but don't know which member should take the credit for it:

http://users.telenet.be/absinthebunny/15hands.jpg

zwiebelsaft
06-28-2009, 08:16 PM
The opening riff of Mechanical Animals is the same as a riff from Metallica's Fade to Black. The other riff starts at about 3:53, and 3*5=15. Although, sadly, if it started 4 seconds later, then it'd be even cooler, because 3+5+7=15.

Anima XI
06-28-2009, 10:22 PM
O is the 15th letter of the alphabet. Omega. Coma. Etc.

Random interesting link: http://www.ridingthebeast.com/numbers/nu15.php

Anima XI
06-29-2009, 04:50 AM
Omg I just realized Brian Hugh Warner has 15 letters =O =O

Ich_Bin_Du
06-29-2009, 06:10 AM
O is the 15th letter of the alphabet. Omega. Coma. Etc.

Random interesting link: http://www.ridingthebeast.com/numbers/nu15.php
"As hollow as the O in God"

Para-Noir
07-08-2009, 08:34 AM
- WOW begins after 21 seconds, Swastika after 9 if I'm not mistaken, 21-9=15
- The word WOW is sung 14 times, + the title = 15 times wow in the booklet

Of course the song 15..

Any more on THEOL?

Method Man
07-08-2009, 08:40 AM
- WOW begins after 21 seconds, Swastika after 9 if I'm not mistaken, 21-9=15


You are mistaken, unless that was a typo.

Para-Noir
07-08-2009, 09:22 AM
Haha! Damn I'm messed up. That is what you get after studying non-stop for a week in a row.

godeatgod13
07-12-2009, 01:37 AM
From the Dope Show music video
http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm133/godeatgod1313/15-1.jpg
8+4+3=15

archdandydotcom
07-12-2009, 05:27 PM
for me, this new song "15" has finally settled what the 15 was always about. its mansons birthday, and more specifically refers to Manson himself. so from the begining, Manson has been dropping hints that its all about him. everything he does includes 15 and that refers to him himself. its not about his bass player gidget, or gidgets replacement twiggy or twiggys replacement timmy or tims replacement whatshisname, its all about Manson.
its not enough to have his name on the credits, only his photo on the cover, all clues must point to him. there is no band. there are no fans. there is nothing but manson and all roads lead back to him. everyone else is replacable. everyone in the band is temporary, even the fansites and the fans can be replaced too.

its all 15!

The Empirical Guy
07-13-2009, 04:51 AM
for me, this new song "15" has finally settled what the 15 was always about. its mansons birthday, and more specifically refers to Manson himself. so from the begining, Manson has been dropping hints that its all about him. everything he does includes 15 and that refers to him himself. its not about his bass player gidget, or gidgets replacement twiggy or twiggys replacement timmy or tims replacement whatshisname, its all about Manson.
its not enough to have his name on the credits, only his photo on the cover, all clues must point to him. there is no band. there are no fans. there is nothing but manson and all roads lead back to him. everyone else is replacable. everyone in the band is temporary, even the fansites and the fans can be replaced too.

its all 15!


and it just so happens to be your 15th post :)

*gasp!* Could this be from Manson himself?!

/blatant sarcasm.

S.D.
07-13-2009, 06:34 AM
Thank you for your thoughts Arch, I really admired that post.

It can be looked at in terms of existentialism. The number 15, though embroiled in significance and coincidence, is still an item of Manson's construct. It is 15 because he says it is, the number is one we seek because he has instructed us to do so. I think that he is aware that this is very much how religion works, and whilst he may be creating a "Dogma" of sorts, the concept of this tutorship is showing us that whilst the art and music may be solely centered around Marilyn Manson, he is still holding up a mirror for us to see ourselves properly. His flaws are our flaws, his highs are our highs, and the same goes for the lows.

I was considering this in some depth recently, after instigating the thoughts about Celebritarianism. The phrase that adorns the inner spine in Portrait of an American Family reads "I Am You", which I believe is still relevant. Aren't we all fuck ups, don't we all make stupid mistakes? Yes, we do. We've all got our vices, our inconsistencies, our failures, and some of them might well be as negative or damaging as the things that people discuss in relation to Marilyn Manson's life. The difference being, of course, that we are not all on camera in public and cannot make things progress like a film (There is no "Cut, Cut, Cut"). I mean, if I drink alcohol every day, which I do, am I an alcoholic? No, I am not, I just have my familiar vices. If a photograph shows me looking tired, am I ugly? I don't like to think so, and I think this mirroring of our "selves" is the predominant part of Marilyn Manson's ethos. The High End of Low is us* at our most decadent, our most personally vulnerable, compounded in lyrics like "I'll love you, if you let me". The human nature of this is haunting, but true, and 15 is a product of that, a symbolism invented to try and create order around chaos.

If events out of one's control (Manson's greatest fear) can be rationalised or made easier to handle by the association of a symbol or a structure, then surely this is beneficial. In addition to saying "I Am You", Manson is also finding a way to be himself, and see through that mirror, much like "Herr Doktor" on the inner sleeve of The Golden Age of Grotesque. I find it interesting that in relation to my book end notion about that album, both it and The High End of Low have this focus on the front of the face, posing for the camera or being observed by either the self or the world, and shrouding of the body.

*[We're From America: The US?: Manson says The High End of Low is a perpetual state of being that he is in... Are we not all United States?]

archdandydotcom
07-13-2009, 07:07 PM
and it just so happens to be your 15th post :)


im scared now, someone call me an exorcist and i mean it this time!

and as for S.D.'s post, you bring up alot of valid points.

S.D.
07-14-2009, 07:01 AM
Apparently, Miss Stoya's birthday is the 15th of June. June being the sixth month of the year means you can divide the numbers one and five from it. That essentially means you have 1 5 and 15. Also, I think I have read some of these details elsewhere, but I can't recall who authored them, so apologies for any repetition. From the I Don't Like The Drugs (But The Drugs Like Me) video:-


http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/6906/drugs15.jpg



On the football jersey, the numbers 8 and 7, which when added, equals 15.



http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/2716/drugs152.jpg



Manson features on "Channel 15"



And from The Dope Show video:-



http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/8007/dope15.jpg


Sensitivity is set at 15, and from what I can make out, the letters "mm" (very likely for Millimeters) are underneath the dial. Manson is currently signing his online messages as MM15.

absinthe bunny
07-14-2009, 11:44 AM
S.D., thanks for the images to illustrate the '15's. I'll see if I got some to share. And I liked your view, I would have never thought it at the 1st listening of THEOL, but the album starts to make more and more sense to me. The 1st listening I was completly lost, I didn't find any structure at all..

I think it's really interesting to see how personal the meaning of 15 is to MM. I remember since the release of Mechanical Animals, there has been a discussion what the 15 really meant, and there has been a 'hunt for 15' ever since. I always looked at the reference to his birthday as 'one of the many interpretations'. And I don't think there has ever been such a clear indication this was the most important of all till the release of THEOL/track 15.

EDIT: don't know if it was mentioned, but it's not only the 1/5 in his birthdate, but also the year '69 (6+9=15). And don't forget the 15 in 'Mar1lyn Man5on' on the We're from America single cover (I don't think it was ever used in artwork other then the MA artwork).

archdandydotcom
07-14-2009, 04:54 PM
i think Manson must of just read this thread because he has changed his top friends from 15 to 18.

sugarbaby
07-14-2009, 05:26 PM
Stoya's Birthday numerology numbers are 6-6-6.I am sure that Manson appreciates that.

S.D.
08-13-2009, 03:02 PM
Stoya's Birthday numerology numbers are 6-6-6.I am sure that Manson appreciates that.


Stoya's birthday is the 15th of June. June being the sixth month of the year means you can divide the numbers one and five from it. That essentially means you have 1 5 and 15.

What I like especially about your observation, sugarbaby, is that in relation to my initial comment on Stoya's birth date, it correlates directly with this recent quote from Manson, in his June interview with Spin:-

"The record, the 15th track, was finished on my birthday -- 1-5-69. The 15s are just overwhelming on the record. It's my number. It's the Devil card in the Tarot. I have it tattooed behind my ear. It's probably the new number of the beast."

Thank you also for your post absinthe bunny.
_______________

This, as best I can ascertain, is a complete list of all the Marilyn Manson songs, covers and album titles that feature 1 and 5 equally, if we were to replace all the letters I and S:-

1 Put A 5pell On You
May Cau5e D15colorat1on Of The Ur1ne or Fece5
Wh1te Tra5h
Angel W1th The 5cabbed W1ng5
Rock 15 Dead
D15a55oc1at1ve
The 5peed Of Pa1n
New Model No. 15
U5er Fr1endly
A5ton15h1ng Panorama Of The End T1me5
D1amond5 And Pollen
Five To One
Holy Wood (1n The 5hadow Of The Valley of Death)
The F1ght 5ong
Pre51dent Dead
The Nobod1e5
Valent1ne'5 Day
Th15 15 The New 5h1t
(5)A1NT
Better Of Two Ev1l5
Th15 15 Halloween
Putt1ng Hole5 1n Happ1ne55
You And Me And The Dev1l Make5 3
Unk1llable Mon5ter

Also, if anyone has read my thoughts this week on the sequence 0135, and considering that I AM YOU, and "You're as hollow as the 'O' in God", we can look at the following title thusly:-

Y0u and Me and the Dev1l Make5 3

Also, relating to GOD, these words seem significant:-


"We are our own w1cked God5"
"1 went to God ju5t to 5ee, and 1 wa5 look1ng at me"


The Reflecting God is also, obviously the 15th track on Antichrist Superstar...

Iulian
08-14-2009, 01:36 AM
EVAN RACHEL WOOD is so obsessed with the number 15 she has the figure inked behind her earlobe.
The actress admits she's "haunted" by the number, which represents the numbers of letters in her real name and that of her ex, Brian Hugh Warner, aka Marilyn Manson.
She tells i-D magazine, "It's everywhere I go. I hear it constantly. The real spelling of my name (Evan Rachael Wood) adds up to 15... Marilyn Manson is 15, his birthday is 15, we met on the 15th. Over and over and over.
"Fifteen is the number of the devil in Tarot cards. So it's the new number of the beast."

http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/ar ... 15_1112719 (http://www.contactmusic.com/news.nsf/article/wood-haunted-by-number-15_1112719)

Oh yeah, I'm the 15th member registered :D

[god]speed
08-21-2009, 01:50 AM
Interesting... Especially Considering the Date and this Snippet from the Pogo Interview With Circus.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6dhbYm6Ml8
Note "Your Not Crying This Is Blood All Over Me" The Virgin Mary
Jan 15th 2008 Supernatural


We were working on seeing if there was a way to bring about the apocalypse. The apocalypse won't happen. The devil can't break into this world from the nether world and destroy it. He has to be let in by humans. The gates unlock from the inside. He can only destroy the world if you let him in. He can't break in; he's not that powerful. One thing we were trying to do was to open those gates for an apocalypse now. The apocalypse may not be the traditional type of apocalypse where it is the end of the world. But the end of the world does come when you die. Your own experiences die. The world began and ends with you. The apocalypse we are trying to bring about may not be an apocalypse for the entire world. It might actually be your own personal apocalypse. A psychological apocalypse. When you destroy yourself completely by letting in the dark that is out there. Coming to embrace it and accept it, and realize that it needs to be there.

S.D.
08-25-2009, 08:04 AM
I don't think I've ever seen this written anywhere, nor has anyone mentioned it that I'm aware of, so I was quite excited to make the discovery yesterday. Look at the following section of the Mechanical Animals disc tray page:-


http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/providermodule/Analysis/stagesofcoma.jpg


Listed at the top are the numbers 1-14, for the track numbers of the album. But, there is not a fifteen... Except the fact that there is. If you look to the bottom right corner, at the box of pills, the compartment closest to the eye reads 'E3'. E is the fifth letter of the alphabet...


E/5 x 3 = 15

Sputnik
08-25-2009, 01:07 PM
^ I can see the E... but where's the 3?

S.D.
08-25-2009, 01:16 PM
In the bottom left hand corner of the square.

Jakob Synn
08-25-2009, 04:07 PM
It's very faint.

S.D.
08-25-2009, 04:16 PM
It's very faint.

Yes, so is the Shroud Of Turin, but people still see it.

The Empirical Guy
08-26-2009, 12:01 AM
I don't think I've ever seen this written anywhere, nor has anyone mentioned it that I'm aware of, so I was quite excited to make the discovery yesterday. Look at the following section of the Mechanical Animals disc tray page:-


http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/providermodule/Analysis/stagesofcoma.jpg


Listed at the top are the numbers 1-14, for the track numbers of the album. But, there is not a fifteen... Except the fact that there is. If you look to the bottom right corner, at the box of pills, the compartment closest to the eye reads 'E3'. E is the fifth letter of the alphabet...

E/5 x 3 = 15

Well spotted. I'd never seen this before but had wondered over the fact that the first three letters of the bottom row spell out "EVE"... I thought it was interesting as in all the "Adam" references in Manson's work there are very few for his female counterpart.

-<me>-
08-26-2009, 04:57 AM
Nice find S.D.!

S.D.
08-26-2009, 05:24 AM
I'd never seen this before but had wondered over the fact that the first three letters of the bottom row spell out "EVE"... I thought it was interesting as in all the "Adam" references in Manson's work there are very few for his female counterpart.

I did a little bit of looking around and have found what the box is. If you look inside the Mechanical Animals booklet, beneath the lyrics for The Last Day On Earth, you will see a diagram of a weekly pill organiser*, given to patients who are on a continued prescription of medicine. Each day of the week is listed in order on the seven compartments, with the requisite pills inside each one. The one in the booklet is for people who only need a daily amount, just the once. However, for people with something like diabetes, you have to take several doses at different times of the day. They are mostly divided into MORNING/NOON/EVENING/BEDTIME. For some reason (I have no idea why) you can also get ones that list the times as MORNING/NOON/BEDTIME/EVENING, which is demonstrated in the image I found below:-


http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/providermodule/Analysis/pillorganiser.jpg


It seems strange that there would be a listing for bedtime before the evening, no? But regardless, that is the listing on the box featured in Manson's artwork, above, so the "EVE", is just that, EVE. It likely goes on to read EVENING, as the letters are across each compartment, but it's hard to tell. Incidentally, I quite like the fact that one of the next things Manson would record was a cover of The Doors [I]Five To One, which in addition to having the aforementioned one and five in the title, also features the line "Shadows of the evening, crawl across the years", which is the only example I can think of where Manson sings the word. It's likely unrelated, of course, but a nice observation nonetheless.


Nice find S.D.!

Thank you, I'm glad you enjoyed it.

* - "It is finished when Seven are One" - Weekly doses.

The Empirical Guy
08-26-2009, 11:03 PM
Well there you go. Actually a little disappointed that it's something so simple and not a more obscure Adam/ Eve reference, but the "when seven are one" that you pointed out it nice.

HOWEVER

I'm grasping at straws here, but I'll continue. In the picture of the pillbox you mentioned below The Last Day On Earth, if I'm counting correctly (and not mis-interpreting the drawing) I count 6 pills in the first compartment, 5 in the next, then 4, then 3... presumably this follows in the closed sections with 2, 1 and the final one being empty. If so this would have all sorts of relations we'd no doubt be familiar with: "never get to seven" "God is a number you cannot count to" and, after popping all those pills, how about "we all lay down" from Count to Six and Die. Just lay back and feel the effects... some do it fast, and some do it better in smaller amounts.

S.D.
08-27-2009, 05:39 AM
I'm grasping at straws here, but I'll continue. In the picture of the pillbox you mentioned below The Last Day On Earth, if I'm counting correctly (and not mis-interpreting the drawing) I count 6 pills in the first compartment, 5 in the next, then 4, then 3... presumably this follows in the closed sections with 2, 1 and the final one being empty. If so this would have all sorts of relations we'd no doubt be familiar with: "never get to seven" "God is a number you cannot count to" and, after popping all those pills, how about "we all lay down" from Count to Six and Die. Just lay back and feel the effects... some do it fast, and some do it better in smaller amounts.

Now this, my friend, is fucking brilliant, I commend you. Indeed, I'm looking at the booklet now and it certainly does count down 6, 5, 4, 3... "et cetera", presumably with the final compartment empty. This obviously can mirror the chambers of a gun, and is certainly relative to the lyrics for Count To Six And Die, excellent.

Also (and this is really fucking interesting...), consider the tracklisting for both Mechanical Animals and Holy Wood; The sixth and seventh tracks on both albums seem to document the process of dying, and then being dead:-


Mechanical Animals: The Speed of Pain --- Posthuman
Holy Wood: President Dead --- In The Shadow Of The Valley Of Death


So it can be viewed as the "Speed of Pain" - Death, or the speed of a bullet - leads to being "Posthuman", and viewed as such for Celebritarian needs, posthumously, and the "President" dies, also via the Speed of Pain, the bullet, and enters the "Shadow of the Valley of Death", in Holy Wood, also for Celebritarian needs...

I quite like the continual reference to doses as well, which links back even to Portrait of an American Family, and May Cause Discoloration Of The Urine Or Feces. Now, lastly, and perhaps most shockingly, I saw something else today...


http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/providermodule/Analysis/portraitpills.jpg


That is from the Portrait Of An American Family booklet, and it shows all the collections of pills that feature next to song lyrics. The first is next to Misery Machine, the second is Cake And Sodomy, and the last two sets are either side of Dope Hat. I made sure to check the amount twice, and even had someone else stand and verify with me. Altogether, there are 15 pills... Or should I say, 15 P1LL5?

Thank you also to -< me >- for the scans, and for the five or so people I've made wait all morning for this!

The Empirical Guy
08-27-2009, 05:49 AM
Worth the wait, S.D. Glad I could make a useful contribution :D I do indeed wonder if things like the 15 pills are a pure coincidence, or if he's been planting this sort of thing all along and only began drawing our attention to it circa MA.

Can I point out as well, you mentioned the correlation between tracks 6 and 7. 6 + 7 = 13, which is a prevalent number on Holy Wood and, of course, the Death card in a Tarot deck.

S.D.
08-27-2009, 06:02 AM
Yes, it's also the number for M in the alphabet, which is relative of course to Manson's initials and the Fritz Lang, Celebritarian era imagery. Lang has been an influence for a long time actually, since before that era, and especially on Mechanical Animals. Metropolis is a prime example of this. A friend once pointed out the significance of the female robot and electronic rings in the film, and their relevance to those five similar rings on the cover of Mechanical Animals, not to mention the pronounced breasts, yet ambiguous sexuality of their respective protagonists.

The robot is also called Maschinenmensch, which besides having two pronounced 'M's in the name, also has 15 letters to it...

The Empirical Guy
08-27-2009, 04:21 PM
Well I guess it never ends. It seems whenever you find something it throws up dozens of more meanings. I'm not really familiar with Metropolis but I'll look into it and read up on some more Lang. I guess that's one more thing on my to read/ watch list.

[god]speed
09-01-2009, 06:19 PM
10050 Cielo Drive
19 6+9

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ww2cd7ornY


The original home at 10050 Cielo Drive in Benedict Canyon, Los Angeles, California is infamous for being the scene of one of the Manson "family" murders.
The final resident of the original house was the musician Trent Reznor of Nine Inch Nails. Reznor moved into the house in the early 1990s and had a recording studio built inside. This studio, dubbed Pig (sometimes called Le Pig) in a reference to the fact that one of the murderers had written "Pig" in Tate's blood on the front door of the house during the murders, was the site of recording sessions for Nine Inch Nails' 1992 EP Broken and 1994 album The Downward Spiral as well as Marilyn Manson's 1994 Reznor-produced debut album Portrait of an American Family. Reznor moved out of the house in December 1993, later explaining that "there was too much history in that house for me to handle."[3] He insists that he did not know that the address was site of the Manson murders when he bought the place.

And Finally,

On August 9, 1969, the home became the scene of the murders of Tate, Wojciech Frykowski, Abigail Folger, Jay Sebring and Steven Parent at the hands of the Charles Manson "Family". William Garretson,

Simple Pythagorean Numerology Reveals 1 5 as the final numbers of the date of the Murders of 9th August 1969, Before being reduced to 6.

9 + 8 (Aug) =17 (1+7) = 8 + 1 = 9 +9 +18 (1+8) = 9 + 6= 15 (1+5)= 6 + 9 = 1 5

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10050_Cielo_Drive

The Hand
09-02-2009, 04:32 PM
New spreadeagle t-shirt has 1 & 5 inside the two big Ms on the back, I was thinking the layout makes it looks like it was the 15th anniversary tour or something.

And then I realised it's 15 years since 1994 & the release of Portrait... wooo

Hate Sells
09-03-2009, 08:06 AM
^It's the same as on the back of the We're From America single, correct...?

Great observations here guys, by the way! S.D., you have never failed to amaze me, and The Empirical Guy, what a wonderful find!

The Hand
09-03-2009, 12:26 PM
Sorry to be untr00 but I have no idea what the WFA single looks like, I need to get down the exchange and rape them out of their "MA" section

S.D.
09-13-2009, 09:50 AM
~ "all that gl1tter5 15 cold" ~

The Empirical Guy
09-13-2009, 08:23 PM
Cold and Temperature, you say?

* Absolute zero is -273.15 Celsius
* Lowest recorded surface temperature on earth is 184.15 Kelvin
* Average surface temperature on Earth is 288. 15 Kelvin, or 15 celsius ("in space the stars (lights on earth?) are no nearer, just glitters = all that glitters 15 cold")
* Water boils at 373.15 Kelvin
* Titanium melts at 1941.15 Kelvin
* Surface of the sun is 5799.15 Kelvin

Although strangely the 15 temperature reference doesn't seem to come up in the Fahrenheit scale, which I would assume is the one Manson is most familiar with, being American.

S.D.
09-14-2009, 01:52 AM
I imagine many of those temperatures are gauged using a Mercury scale also...

Nice work friend, as ever.

The Empirical Guy
09-14-2009, 03:32 AM
Mercury makes me think of elements. The periodic table... Atomic number 15, which also belongs to group 15, is phosphorus. Wiki chemistry time...


Phosphorus is a component of DNA, RNA, ATP, and also the phospholipids which form all cell membranes. It is thus an essential element for all living cells.

S.D.
09-16-2009, 07:52 AM
Manson photographed during Holy Wood as Mercury:-


http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/providermodule/Analysis/69.jpg



6 + 9 = 15


Also, the symbol itself (over the heart/hole) once again mimics the Ouroboros, as the two ends of each digit follow one another eternally - "This is where it starts...". Not only that, but although tenuous, the rifle Manson holds and which makes up the larger part of the Holy Wood gun crucifix is the same model as that which appeared on an early Manson newsletter:-

http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/providermodule/Analysis/Rifle.jpg



AMEN - "The President is dead, let us pray"


Also, the two pistols that appeared in the cross were of the same six chamber variety as that which is pointed from a hand in the I AM YOU spine of Portrait of an American Family. I know it's not exactly uncommon, but it could easily have been a 9mm. The six chambers are also echoed in "never get to seven", and Count To Six And Die, and so they do have a continued part to play in Manson's work. I believe it is also the same variety of pistol Manson holds in the Westworld (thank you Saklas) based imagery of Manson as a robotic cowboy from the Mechanical Animals promo shoots. If anyone has that image I'd be grateful.

Anima XI
09-16-2009, 08:49 AM
^ I'm pretty sure that

http://www.symbols.com/pics/big/50/5005.gif

is also the zodiacal symbol for Cancer.


Together with the zodiac signs Scorpio, and Pisces, Cancer belongs to the astrological element of water. In astrological symbolism water stands for feelings.


Both Jupiter and Mercury are considered well placed in this sign.

http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/50/5015.html

I don't really know what else to make of it, just thought I'd point that out =)

The Empirical Guy
10-04-2009, 04:46 AM
Here's something I noticed today, not srs bsns at all, but an amusing coincidence. This is my ticket to the Manson show on October 14 (damn, only a day off too...)

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t37/TheEmpiricalGuy/phpTd5gp4AM.jpg

Yes, my ticket number is 1158. 1 + 1 + 5 + 8 = 15. Now that's a real Manson ticket, I'm almost loathe to hand it over to get in... I'm sure it will be worth it.

S.D.
10-08-2009, 05:37 AM
The dollar symbol --- $ --- A 1 over 5?



http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/providermodule/Analysis/Dollar.jpg



A dollar in the middle of the star of Babalon...

[god]speed
10-08-2009, 07:11 PM
[center:2gd9gltd]http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w307/picatya/mm5.jpg[/center:2gd9gltd]
"We Are Watching You"




Watching... The Growth and Progress...

ENNUI OPERATION: Measuring and Guaging the Soul, and it's progress throughout.
http://www.nachtkabarett.com/hidden/chart.jpg
Courtesy of NK
http://www.nachtkabarett.com/hidden/celebritarian.html

Number of hits since 1996

1996 Birth of Celebritarianism
2009-1996 = 13 years old. (see chart)
Soul measured every six years
13 divided by 6 = Measured Two times, (Count the Birth as on the chart as measured 3 times)
In 2011 "We" will be 15 years old, soul measured another 0.5,
therefore at 15yrs our soul is measured 3.5x
(edit: to clairify the soul would be measured 0.5 time due to a 3 year period since the 12yr measuring)
15 = 3.5

2011 Seems like a plausible date for the release of a Celebritarian Album.
15 years after 1996



Nov. 16th 1999

We are born as angels

and our parents are God.

They make us in there image.

We follow their commandments.

When we reach the age of reason,

the Age of Horus, we can no longerv be what our "parents" our "god"

our "society" would like us to be.

Maturity, sensibility, rebellion, 15.

This is when we fall.

This is Lucifer.

Being what you want isn't wrong.

The story has always been written from someone

else's perspective.

Now we must write our own, here among thorns.

The Third and Final Beast

MM=2000

S.D.
10-10-2009, 05:39 AM
We're still watching ourSELVES then? The Manson and the Marilyn again, I like that they are watching over us, because as Celebritarian icons, we ARE them (I AM YOU), their vigilance should be reminding us that we are the ones who watch, and are viewed, the screen is us and we're TV, where God is --- "We are our own wicked gods, with little g's, and big dicks"

Incidentally, you can actually order a big bag of dicks...

;)

Anima XI
10-10-2009, 11:02 AM
Mercury makes me think of elements. The periodic table... Atomic number 15, which also belongs to group 15, is phosphorus. Wiki chemistry time...


Phosphorus is a component of DNA, RNA, ATP, and also the phospholipids which form all cell membranes. It is thus an essential element for all living cells.

This might be significant also!


The first form of phosphorus to be discovered (white phosphorus, in 1669) emits a faint glow upon exposure to oxygen hence its name given from Greek mythology, ???????? meaning "light-bearer" (Latin - Lucifer), referring to the "Morning Star", the planet Venus.

Lucifer, hm?

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/usa/images-3/the-devil-tarot-card.jpg

[god]speed
10-11-2009, 02:05 AM
Phosphorus Jaw Links to the holywood album... I had a post written..glad others picked up on thiss

The Empirical Guy
10-11-2009, 04:29 AM
1996 Birth of Celebritarianism
2009-1996 = 13 years old. (see chart)
Soul measured every six years
13 divided by 6 = Measured Two times, (Count the Birth as on the chart as measured 3 times)
In 2011 "We" will be 15 years old, soul measured another 0.5,
therefore at 15yrs our soul is measured 3.5x
(edit: to clairify the soul would be measured 0.5 time due to a 3 year period since the 12yr measuring)
15 = 3.5

2011 Seems like a plausible date for the release of a Celebritarian Album.
15 years after 1996


Fantastic findings. While a little sad we have to wait until 2011, the thought of something that big and planned out is exciting enough I can handle it.



Mercury makes me think of elements. The periodic table... Atomic number 15, which also belongs to group 15, is phosphorus. Wiki chemistry time...


Phosphorus is a component of DNA, RNA, ATP, and also the phospholipids which form all cell membranes. It is thus an essential element for all living cells.

This might be significant also!


The first form of phosphorus to be discovered (white phosphorus, in 1669) emits a faint glow upon exposure to oxygen — hence its name given from Greek mythology, ???????? meaning "light-bearer" (Latin - Lucifer), referring to the "Morning Star", the planet Venus.

Lucifer, hm?

http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/usa/images-3/the-devil-tarot-card.jpg

Yep, almost certainly I'd say. People often take mentions of brimstone in the bible to be sulphur, could it be taken as phosphorus as well? phosphorus=> light-bearer =>Lucifer/ Devil => Hell... elements of hell essential for all life? Interesting...

21Faces
10-30-2009, 10:23 AM
http://i347.photobucket.com/albums/p446/vodkasodamag/warhol15.jpg

S.D.
10-30-2009, 10:51 AM
"Fifteen minutes of shame" indeed. Interestingly, I was once told the story that the most shameful (in the sense of embarassment) moment that Andy Warhol was reported to have experienced was when a six foot German transvestite rushed him when he was making a public appearance and stole his wig. He was said to have been mortified more at that point than at any other in his life. That six foot German transvestite was called Christina, and would become one of the most notorious and elusive members of the Club Kids scene in New York...

She has been played on screen once...

Anima XI
11-08-2009, 01:13 AM
Ok, I just had to share this.

I stumbled upon a website that does astrological celebrity profiles, and of course I checked Manson's.

First of all, Manson's sun sign is Capricorn - the Goat. We all know what goats are associated with ;)

His time of birth was 8:05 PM (8+5=13, the number of letters in Marilyn Manson)

But here's the amazing coincidence: at the time of his birth the position, in degrees, of the Sun in Capricorn was 1533'. Wow.

http://www.astrotheme.com/portraits/r6G35WR566Up.htm

Oh, and Manson and David Bowie have the same Sun/Moon combination (Capricorn/Leo). That was cute =D Bowie's Capricorn position is 1715, lol.

http://www.astrotheme.com/portraits/3ynM6svhVDWB.htm

[god]speed
11-08-2009, 09:55 PM
Adolf Hitler was sent in as a German Spy to watch over the THULE SOCIETY, however when he began hearing talks of anti-capitalism, the occult, etc. he quit being Adolf Hitler the spy and became German Workers Party Member 5-5-5
555 is the kabalistic equivalent of an ancient Hebrew term meaning darkness.
Also 555 is the numerical value of the word Necronomicon.


http://www.adolfthegreat.com/site/fileadmin/Image_Archive/Personalities/Hitler-A/HitlerMemberCard555-1920.gif
15


http://www.crystalinks.com/thule.html

S.D.
01-17-2010, 10:21 AM
Chapter five of Manson's autobiography is titled I Wasn't Born With Enough Middle Fingers:-


140


One leads into five, and if you're inclined to see it as such, the dispersal line leading from the finger diagram into the 5 splits into three --- 0135. I also feel this image reflects the use of 15 in Vodevil, as Manson says "This isn't music and we're not a band, we're five middle fingers on a motherfucking hand"; describing one into five again.

Shangri-LIE
01-17-2010, 04:36 PM
13 dead including the two shooters.
This is a transmission from the year 1999.

The ark was borne by the Flood fifteen cubits upwards, Genesis 7:20

Hezekiah's reprieve from death was fifteen years, 2 Kings 20:6.

Bethany, where Lazarus was raised, and from whence the Lord ascended, was fifteen furlongs from Jerusalem, John 11:18.

Deity is seen in the number, for the two Hebrew letters which express it are y, Yod (10), and h, Hey (5). These spell the ineffable Name of hy, Jah, who is the fountain of all grace.

15 can be Partitioned in 176 ways.

15 is the smallest composite number n with the property that there is only one group of order n.

I actually own a replica of a drawing from a victim of Columbine thats heart shaped tears count out the number of each of the victims.

S.D.
02-07-2010, 06:18 PM
There is a topic about the number 15 on the Babalon forum, some of which covers old ground, but there are some nice observations, one of which was relating '666' to '15', in the sense that 6 can be read as 1 and 5, and so there are three 15s in the number of the Beast. After that point, if you get stuck on recurrence like I do, verily you can take the sequence of numbers to several conclusions using sums and patterns. For instance, three 15s, add them together and you have 45. 4 plus 5 is 9; '333' --- HALF EVIL. If there are two sides to Marilyn Manson, then perhaps there are two parts numbered 333. Put them together, and you have 666, or 3 sets of 15 (which on its own is notably a number that cannot be split into two even parts, thus suggesting a symbiosis when the number is presented as a single entity). Mechanical Animals, as the center of the Tryptych, introduced 15 into the wider Manson mythos, and he has commented on the significance of the number 3 not only to that collection of records, but also to his canon at large. Regarding all of the above, you'll perhaps note that the core numbers emerging are 1, 3, and 5, which in addition to the omnipotent ZERO (the 'O' in god?), creates the 0135 number sequence.

Moving forward from that, it goes further. 666, again, if added together by its individual digits, is 18. Add 1 to 8, and it's 9 (once more), the numbers all correlate. Multiply the three 15s of 666 (15 x 15 x 15) and the result is 3375. Strip that quantity to the individual numbers again and use them. Added together (3 + 3 + 7 + 5) the result is 18... I won't keep repeating the significance of the figures. Try multiplication: 3 x 3 x 7 x 5; the result is 315 [0135]. It seems a simple note, but even 1 + 3 + 5 is 9 [333].

Obviously numbers are literally only the sum of their parts, it's not as though anything in this is particularly earth-shattering, perhaps it's just satisfying to recognise how these numbers, figures and ideas are relative and apparently intertwined.

The Empirical Guy
02-07-2010, 07:25 PM
There's some good observations there and you can't really deny the way in which the numbers all line up, but it really depends on how you look at them. Being in a cynical mood, the first thing I think of is 6 is not 1 and 5, but 4 and 2 =\

Litso
02-08-2010, 02:33 AM
"Fifteen minutes of shame" indeed. Interestingly, I was once told the story that the most shameful (in the sense of embarassment) moment that Andy Warhol was reported to have experienced was when a six foot German transvestite rushed him when he was making a public appearance and stole his wig. He was said to have been mortified more at that point than at any other in his life. That six foot German transvestite was called Christina, and would become one of the most notorious and elusive members of the Club Kids scene in New York...

She has been played on screen once...

No way :o

Arch Dandy
06-02-2010, 01:01 PM
I apologize if someone has already posted this but there are 15 letters in the high end of low.

S.D.
06-02-2010, 01:35 PM
I've seen it written elsewhere, perhaps in here, but it's okay, it's nice to refresh things that way, keeps people aware of how layered Manson's work is. Thank you for adding thoughts to some older threads recently also, there was something I was going to put in here last week and I forgot, now I've had a reminder.

The title of the album and Manson's name appear together on the Mechanical Animals artwork:-


http://www.providermodule.com/discography/images/disc_mainth_ma.jpg


If you add the letters of "Marilyn Manson Mechanical Animals" (or "Marilyn Manson Is An Alchemical Man"), there are 30 characters altogether, and 30 divided by two (the two parts of the record if you like), is obviously 15.
I guess also (stop me when it starts to sound loopy...), the thirty characters of the name and title are coupled with the O O O O O emblem, meaning there are 35 symbols on the front cover. The numbers 3 and 5, when multiplied, equal 15.

Arch Dandy
06-02-2010, 01:45 PM
I've seen it written elsewhere, perhaps in here, but it's okay, it's nice to refresh things that way, keeps people aware of how layered Manson's work is. Thank you for adding thoughts to some older threads recently also, there was something I was going to put in here last week and I forgot, now I've had a reminder.

The title of the album and Manson's name appear together on the Mechanical Animals artwork:-


http://www.providermodule.com/discography/images/disc_mainth_ma.jpg


If you add the letters of "Marilyn Manson Mechanical Animals" (or "Marilyn Manson Is An Alchemical Man"), there are 30 characters altogether, and 30 divided by two (the two parts of the record if you like), is obviously 15.



Great find. It's amazing the depth he goes into in his music and his art, I think we could spend years and years analyzing and still not find half of everything he has encorporated.

S.D.
08-12-2010, 01:58 AM
Here's something fun. If one were to chronologically chart promotional single releases that are only taken from full-length albums (excluding EPs and Lest We Forget, which in turn also excludes cover versions released as singles), then We're From America was the fifteenth album-related single by Marilyn Manson.
Of course, it was also the first reprisal of 'MAR1LYN MAN5ON' on the cover art since I Don't Like The Drugs (But The Drugs Like Me).


http://www.providermodule.com/discography/images/disc_main_wfa.jpg


Thought that might amuse some of our number-chasers, enjoy!

The Empress
08-12-2010, 01:28 PM
The German transvestite Christina: played on screen only once...

...by Marilyn Manson in the film 'Party Monster' ?

Golden Eel
08-12-2010, 04:44 PM
The German transvestite Christina: played on screen only once...

...by Marilyn Manson in the film 'Party Monster' ?

How is this relevant?

S.D.
08-13-2010, 01:48 AM
How is this relevant?

It's relevant because The Empress is quoting something I wrote on the page before this one: Warhol (http://www.providermodule.com/forum/showthread.php?1202-The-Number-15&p=49467&viewfull=1#post49467)

And yes, in answer to the question, Manson is to date the only person to portray Christina Superstar on film. Warhol is featured in Party Monster also of course, so in general all those themes overlap a little, even if in a slightly transient fashion. In fact, in response to something that I expect got ignored in favour of prattle on Babalon recently, I suggested that Christina's The La La Song might have been lyrically influential on Arma-Goddamn-Motherfuckin'-Geddon:-
"First I'm going to rip you, then I'm going to eat you" - The La La Song
"First you try to fuck it, then you try to eat it" - Arma-Goddamn-Motherfuckin'-Geddon
Pure supposition, but it was interesting to me. Also, I guess it makes sense when you look at it, but given the lyric "Fifteen minutes of shame" is spoken during I Don't Like The Drugs (But The Drugs Like Me), it might explain Manson's visage during the music video (also see Pogo's Warhol-esque 'do):-


http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/5917/warholmanson.png


Generally that vacuous "Marilyn" trend seems to have prevailed in the form of a blonde wig, channelled through I Don't Like The Drugs, then Starfuckers, and Party Monster.

The Empress
08-14-2010, 11:13 AM
The lyric connection- I was just about to mention that myself (I hope you believe me!)
I nearly called myself Auntie-Christina Superstar on here, but settled for The Empress instead (see the Tarot card of the same name)...

S.D.
11-30-2010, 04:29 PM
Something I noticed that might interest people.
As it states in the discography section, the deliberately numerical release date for Mechanical Animals was September 15th [1998].


http://providermodule.com/Administrators/S.D./MA_Release_Advert.jpeg


The day of the month is an obvious use of the number, but if you count inwards with a calendar, September 15th is 258 days into the year. If you then add the numbers 2, 5, and 8, they equal 15...

Shangri-LIE
11-30-2010, 08:02 PM
To be honest, S.D., I would typically just diregard this as a sheer coincidence. However, seeing as how Manson deliberately used that date, which all of us should already know, seems to reinforce the fact that that it isn't a coincidence. Even as far as what you've observed with the calendar days, and the numerical value of the numbers onces added equating to 15. It is a cool obeservation. It supports the entire number 15 as an exponent of itself explanation .. 1515.

Not only just that, but your observation just validates the knowledge that we have about numerology, that we apply to our examinations of Mansons art. The cross sum of 15 being 6 , how "The Devil" tarot card is the 15th card, yada yada yada. It just, as I said before, reinforces that.


"The 15 that I also refer to has several different importances. I've noticed that a lot of you have been coming up with your theories, and most of them are correct. And I think the more that you look, the more you'll discover. Fifteen is Biblical. Fifteen is numerological. Fifteen does correspond to the album's release date. Fifteen does correspond to the number six. Fifteen does correspond to my birthdate. Fifteen does correspond to half of my age this January fifth, which is also one-five. There are a lot of very important numbers that help fulfill the prophesy that I kind of created for myself on Antichrist Superstar. Hopefully, that answers that question for you --Marilyn Manson"

Mexicanfiend
01-04-2011, 03:55 PM
For many years we let something obvious -yet important- to pass right beside us, without further notice of it (until today): The age of Manson when he lost his virginity was 15.

S.D.
01-12-2011, 09:59 AM
the age of manson when he lost his virginity was 15.

T1na Pott5

Heidi_Klebold
07-08-2011, 10:39 PM
OK this is freaking me the fuck out

S.D.
03-25-2012, 05:21 AM
Here's a small point to consider; Manson may have moved focus away from the number fifteen's significance for Born Villain. Its re-emergence was quite potent during The High End Of Low, and the album closed with 15. Some fans were quick to note the number factoring in songs as well, like the MAR1LYN MAN5ON reprisal for We're From America, a song which itself has fifteen letters in the title.

On Born Villain however, I have checked the tracklisting, and there are no songs with fifteen-letter titles, and even from names alone, no apparent references to the number. If 15 was a rebirth anthem of sorts - "Today is my birthday" - then it may well roll directly into Born Villain in the sense that the album starts with Hey, Cruel World. Like an infant uttering its first words.

brian219
03-25-2012, 01:06 PM
Very nice.

15's "birth" connection can apply to Mechanical Animals in one sense. At the beginning of the Dope Show video, Manson is clearly referencing the film The Man Who Fell To Earth, about an alien's arrival. So in essence we see Omega's coming into the great big cruel world, a birth of sorts.

Eternal
04-07-2012, 07:29 AM
I was reading this thread the other day and I happened to have some extra time on my hands so I got to doing some of my own research on the number 15 and Manson...as SD stated earlier 15 was very prominent during THEOL era and still is somewhat in the Born Villain era however the number 13 has now also crept in heavily in this era, see below for some fun tidbits:

05/22/2011 – RAPETURE journal Entry signifying the beginning/birth of the new era
0+5+2+2+2+0+1+1 = 13

05/22/2011 – I am among no one (excerpt from an undisclosed song with an unreleased title)
0+5+2+2+2+0+1+1 = 13
I am among no one = 13 letters
Sample clip is 26 secs long = 26/2 = 13
In the song sample MM repeats ‘I am among no one’ 3 times then says ‘no one’ and then at around the 17 sec mark he says something that gets chopped and distorted into the background which sounds like ‘Born Villain’ with the ‘B’ and the ‘V’ cut off or it could even be backwards ‘nroB nialliV’...I'm thinking that since this date marks the birth of the new era its only fitting that this I am among no one sound clip is the title track of the album Born Villain.

08/30/2011 – Born Villain Signing with Shia Labouef
0+8+3+0+2+0+1+1 = 15
150 copies = 15+0
Premiere viewing at 10:15am
Address is Space 15 Twenty on 1520 N Cahuenga Blvd.

09/02/2011 – Marilyn Manson announces album title ‘Born Villain’
0+9+0+2+2+0+1+1 = 15
Number of tracks on album 13 (plus 1 bonus track)

03/14/2012 – No Reflection available on iTunes
0+3+1+4+2+0+1+2 = 13
Song length = 4:36 = 4+3+6 = 13

03/07/2012 – World Premiere of No Reflection on KROQ
0+3+0+7+2+0+1+2 = 15

04/04/2012 – World Premiere of No Reflection video
0+4+0+4+2+0+1+2 = 13
Video length = 3:38 /13 = 26/2 = 13

04/30/2012 and 05/01/2012 – Born Villain official release dates
0+4+30+2+0+1+2 = 39/3 = 13
0+5+0+1+2+0+1+2 = 13

The 13th letter of the English alphabet is M, which finds its roots in the 13th letter of the Hebrew alphabet, “mem” (meaning mother), which was the ancient Phoenician word for water. The ancient Egyptian word for water was “moo.” M is the most sacred of all the letters, for it symbolizes water, where all life began. It is the root of the word “mother” - This would kind of fit in to what Manson had said at the end of THEOL during his track 15...that this was a re-birth, his birthday...the birth of the Born Villain.

13th tarot card is Death (Change, Exposure, Transition, etc)

Some of the first tracks on the album all correspond to the #13 in some form:
'Hey, Cruel World…' = 13 characters
'No Reflection' = 13 characters (including the space)
'Pistol Whipped' = 13 characters
'Slo-Mo-Tion' = 1 word / 3 syllables = 13

That is all...for now. But for all you keeners out there I'd recommend some research into the number 13 as I think it also plays heavily on this era/album and may spark some new insights...love reading all these analysis and discussions, MM always works on so many 'hidden in plain sight' levels, he really is an amazing artist.

Scorpion
04-07-2012, 08:21 AM
I love these things, I really do, but I don't think they're more than coincidences in 90% of the cases.
Good job Eternal, awesome reading.

*waiting for someone to quote Manson saying that there are no coincidences*

Whisky And Speed
04-12-2012, 01:55 PM
*waiting for someone to quote Manson saying that there are no coincidences*

Manson always says that everything happens for a reason.

A Better Messiah
04-18-2012, 12:30 PM
Correction, W&S: No reason. ;)

shawnanthony1992
04-18-2012, 12:35 PM
04/30/2012 and 05/01/2012 Born Villain official release dates
0+4+30+2+0+1+2 = 39/3 = 13
0+5+0+1+2+0+1+2 = 13


Could also be read as 1/5 of course, for the American release date. I also liked how iTunes added the "No Reflection" music video to the album to make it an even 15 tracks.

brian219
05-07-2012, 10:58 AM
All in all, the more I think about it, the more I feel Manson's fixation with 15 is bullshit. Anyone who's ever heard or read the term gematria, as well as most anyone even remotely aware of numerology knows that 15 is a number that should be reduced to 6. While there are many names and phrases and dates surrounding Marilyn Manson that come out to 15, there are a lot that don't that do come out to 6, especially on Antichrist Superstar. If the 15s were to be reduced then the vast majority of these phrases and such would be 6.

Using simple English Gematria (A=1,B=2,C=3,D=4 and so on), which every school kid in the English speaking world has figured out by the 4th grade, the following examples are somewhat interesting (at least to a nerd like me :P):

The Antichrist Superstar era was rife with identities for the main character:

boy = 42 = 6
worm = 69 = 15 = 6
angel with the scabbed wings = 240 = 6
disintegrator = 159 = 15 = 6
man that you fear = 168 = 15 = 6
marilyn manson = 168 = 15 = 6
brian warner = 123 = 6
antichrist superstar = 258 = 15 = 6

For Mechanical Animals the 6s dry up almost completely except for the well-noted 15s that surround that album. Most notable is that Omega corresponds to the letter "O" which is the 15th letter of the alphabet.

Mechanical = 69 = 15 = 6
Animals = 69 = 15 = 6

But honestly the 69s here seem more striking than the 15s because 69 represents the male/female, yin/yang principle, the very essence of MM.

I've pointed out before, somewhere, that if you look at the letters in MARILYN MANSON and take out the MA and N, from both parts (these are the letters that are giant-sized in the HEOL era logo) you are left with RILYNSO.
http://i49.tinypic.com/vewsv6.jpg
Gibberish, except that it happens to be a scramble for LYS NOIR, which in French is Lily Black (or Black Lily, whatever floats your boat). Happenstance, surely, except he has a fucking cat named Lily White and a pair of songs named Coma White and Coma Black. And Lily Black has a value of 87 = 15 = 6. Of course.

EDIT: Not only does Lily Black come out to 6, but:
Lily White = 123 = 6
and as noted above:
Brian Warner = 123 = 6,
meaning that without any reduction at all Manson's cat's name shares the same numerical value with the person he used to be. Which is strange because I had previously considered that Lily White may actually be some sort of avatar representing Manson's lost innocence, due to the Lily White/Black thing, Manson being the Black Lily and his cat representing the White Lily that he was and can never be again. Anyway, enough about the fucking cat.

I stumbled across this quote where the number 15 is being discussed with the audience on September 14, 1998 and was struck by the value that Manson considers "Marilyn Manson" to have:


January 5th is also my birthday. I'm going to be 30 this year, that's half my age. Marilyn Manson also equals 6. There's a lot of different things but if you look for coincidences you'll start realizing that there are no such thing as coincidences, that everything has a purpose.

As stated earlier Marilyn Manson = 168 = 15 = 6
Why on earth would he say it equals 6 during a conversation about the number 15 being all over Mechanical Animals? It's only 6 if you reduce the 15 first, which Manson apparently does, as is the common practice.

La Muse Malade
05-10-2012, 02:01 PM
I am also posting this in another thread, and this isn't about 15, but it is about Manson and numbers.
5 is the 3rd Fibonacci number. 3rd prime number. There are five girls surrounding Manson in no reflection.
Crushing, cheating, changing.
Won’t Bother Counting 1..2…3…

4 is represented in Disengaged (initial vocal pattern). 4 represent separation according to one interpretation. As far as 3 goes, Dis is repeated 3 times before Disengaged.

I think the vocal pattern that Manson uses in No Reflection and Disengaged is significant for some reason, he has never done it before and I am wondering why he started it. Of course, it could just be a pattern, but I feel like it could be significant.

kalim123
08-07-2012, 04:58 AM
OK guys, You can find all this on the Nachtkabarrett (Sorry if that's an incorrect spelling). I'm not sure where about's on the site, but somewhere. Also thought I might say that Pogo has always been interested in numerology & he says that he brought all that to ACSS.

crazybitch
09-04-2012, 12:00 PM
I have a personal association which is kind of interesting. I see fifteen as a symbol of destruction, disintegration, power and getting to the root of things. I turned fifteen when I lost my mind. It was January 13th and I had a breakdown that they diagnosed as schizophrenia. It was more or less also an existential crisis. I told God that I was going to give him up to see if he was real. It was my ultimate test to see whether or not he would catch my fall. In the end I learned that people were the only Gods and Goddesses to depend on. I also later became a pagan and studied Carl Jung's archetypes. Me and Manson have some similarities. My birthday is unlucky according to christian myth, Friday thirteenth. I also am Capricorn and my tarot cards are the devil and death. I believe rebirth is the most powerful gift of transcendence.

Halo Infinity
11-13-2013, 10:02 AM
Thank you to Norsefire for pointing this thread out to me. I just wanted to re-post this from my "Numbers in The High End of the Low thread."

I find the numerical references in Marilyn Manson albums interesting and it just occurred to me that Four Rusted Horses and obvious track number for, and track 15 is just 15. (I'm not trying to claim that any of this is true. It's just a random thought that occurred to me.)

15+4=19

There are 19 tracks in Holy Wood, and Holy Wood was the 4th album.

15-4=11

There are 11 tracks in Eat Me, Drink Me, and there are 15 tracks in The Golden Age of Grotesque, and the number 15 was also used in Mechanical Animals from Mar1yn Man5on.

15+15+11=41 (And it would've been a cool coincidence if Marilyn Manson was 41 in 2009, but it's very close, since he turned 41 in 2010.)

And then it also makes a lot of sense for the close track to be 15 if that was also a reference to the fact that Portrait of an American Family turned 15 years old when The High End of Low came out since 2009-1994=15. (Or more like was going to turn 15, since The High End of Low came out in May, and Portrait of an American Family came out in July.)

Oh, and then 19+11=30, and back in 2000, Marilyn Manson was 31, but this time, it just goes one number lower than his age. And then there's the fact that there were two albums with 15 tracks on them, making them 30 tracks when put together as well. =P

M Tragedy666
11-13-2013, 09:06 PM
I'll probably get shit for this, but does Manson really believe in this numerology shit? Numbers are everywhere and are a part of everything. If you are looking for a certain number, you'll find it. I'm sure you could just as easily find 1-14 in his work if your trying to.

You guys ever see that Jim Carrey movie, "The Number 23"? I wonder if that's what happened to Manson.

That being said, there are some really great coincidences whether accidental or on purpose. I don't mean to necessarily degrade this thread. I find the whole '15' phenomenon very interesting and entertaining. But I wonder if he really believes it and if so, why? Do any of you actually believe that certain numbers mean things? Isn't that just nonsense paranoia, OCD, and other mental illness coupled with primitive superstitious thinking? Like people afraid of Friday the 13th. There are literally people out there that will cancel obligations because of superstitions. I thought Manson would be the type to call bullshit on that type of thinking.

It's one thing to be interested or fascinated by something, but to really believe in it is another story.

MrBonestripper
11-14-2013, 12:18 AM
i think i remember marilyn sayin somewhere that he or the band were really in to it, i cant remember exactly though. my noggin' aint' workin' so pretty these days, especially now late at night when i have my nose off. i bet ya theres someone around these parts that has something on it. its been huge ever since holy wood, even though its been present all along i think. fans have been so big into it for a long while.

you know

some people ive talked to in the past have said that numerology was just a gimmick. perhaps..! but marilyn did make the song "15," which did seem very personal to me. so i definitely think its deeper than just some gimmick. i think its always been special to marilyn.

im with ya though my friend, i think its kind of fun and neat myself. ive gotten a real kick outta it in the past. i once scanned and printed a bunch of the album inserts up, and a bunch of things on alchemy and numerology and gave it to my rat hole assistant, and told the rhino to go figure the shit out for me. you know what that huge grey dirt covered mass did? she came back a week later, and i swear, she had the nerve to tell me to be careful when it comes to being interested in alchemy and numbers. obviously she doesn't know me or what i am capable of, so i fired her. on the spot. then the little wench cried, so then i cut and shuffled her.

anyways, some other people ive also talked to think it's some number conspiracy. i personally think it was intentional, but personal at the same time.

i think i now remember marilyn sayin somewhere that the number always had special meaning to him. i think its coming back. marilyn likes the numerology stuff and 15 is his number. or something. gosh, where is SD. im pretty sure he knows the lords honest truth.

OH n im pretty sure marilyn believes in the supernatural superstitious stuff. he said once on a show that he has had paranormal type experiences, you know with ghosts and stuff. pretty sure it was something like that.

Halo Infinity
01-14-2014, 12:37 AM
This reminded me of the number 3 being used on the TV on the Portrait of American Family booklet. I thought it was just because of number 3 being used as a channel for VCRs and video games systems at the time, but it certainly does add more to it. God is in the TV is a lyric used in the 3rd album on Rock Is Dead which clocks in around just a little bit over 3 minutes, and then there's 3 referring to the Trinity of the Godhead... and then him saying, "When I'm God everyone dies." with The Reflecting God on the next album after that, on track 15 nonetheless, as I've also thought of 3*5=15. There's also beLIEve, with the 3 letters spelling lie and three heads, and how he always tread on how corrupt those beliefs were in the first place.

I just love how his "number games" screw with us fans. LOL It even got me to think of the places of the letters used in the alphabet when spelling God and lie. =P

GOD = 7 15 4

LIE = 12 9 5

FeedYourHead
10-02-2014, 02:52 PM
Quick question - I somewhat recently moved into a new apartment, #15, and want to replace the number "15" on the outside my apartment door with a self-made Manson version of 15. Anyone have any opinions or advice about what would look best/the coolest/also not scare away other people?

YoureAlreadyHere
10-02-2014, 08:21 PM
Pill form might be appeasing to all eyes, and amazing to MA lovers.
http://www.myalgia.com/Treatment/oxyc015d.jpg

Or maybe do some concrete numbers, and make the 1 a celebratarian cross?

HG131
01-04-2015, 03:49 AM
Regarding the people wondering if he really believes the stuff and if all of these are intentional, I think they mostly are. Remember, throughout the Triptych, he was doing a lot of uppers, mainly cocaine, meaning that the amount of time and planning it would take becomes a tad more reasonable when you realize he had the energy to do it. Additionally, while he has no physical mutations from his father being involved in the Agent Orange airdrops in Vietnam, I wouldn't just assume there were no psychological mutations. Considering his past, it's safe to say he has an obsessive and addictive personality, and with the fact that he covered his entire house in insane writings after Evan left him, it's safe to say that he does have a much different mental state than the average person, which, when stressed, seems prone to psychotic breakdowns. So, don't dismiss it because it seems like the product of obsession and madness, because, as the Nachtkabarett shows, Manson is quite familiar with both.

Hyperboreus_N2
11-12-2017, 07:43 AM
Greetings, as I enter this forum unintentionally on an intersting date, numerologically speaking (1 + 2 + 1 + 1 + 2 + 1 + 7 = Guess what?), I'd like to make some small, random contributions to the recurence of the "Number 15" and consequently the number 6, of course.

"Mechanical Animals"

Omega = 23 = 5

Omega is One/1 (of 5), so 1 + 5 = 15 = 6

From the "Posthuman" song, minute 1:19 - 1:26, the synthetic electro-beats: | | | | | - | (the 6th, single transition's beat) - | | | | | | - | | (14th) + | (the 15th final beat coincides with the main riff's reopening)

From the "I Wanna Disappear" song's lyrics: "Hey, and our mommies are lost now - Hey, daddy some else - Hey, we love the abuse"

"Hey" or "Hei" is the 5th letter from the Hebrew alphabet.

5 x 3 = 15


From the "Coma White" video. Minute 2:22, the presidential limousine's license plate: "TEXAS - GSA 336".

TEXAS (5 letters of 1 word) = 15

GSA (3 letters) = 9 (or "6" inverted)
336 (3 letters) = 12 = 3
or 3 x 36 = 108 = 18 (= 6 + 6 + 6) = 9 (or "6" inverted)

9 x 3 = 27 = 9 (or "6" inverted)


From the "Mechanical Animals" booklet, "The Speed of Pain" lyrics page: "co51.24ahx"

(co = 9) (or "6" inverted)
51 = 6
24 = 6
ahx = 15 = 6

6 + 6 + 6 = 18 = 9 (or "6" inverted)

9 + 6 + 6 + 6 = 27 = 9 (or "6" inverted)