The Manson and the Marilyn

[S.D.]

Charles Manson and Marilyn Monroe.

I don't believe the significance of these two personalities has been scrutinised enough in relation to Marilyn Manson. We are all aware of the basic reason why the names were chosen, and the polarity between their lives, genders and representations. However, I believe that Marilyn Manson evokes their essence more overtly than some might think. I wrote this elsewhere, but it was lost, and so I shall place it here. I was reading some quotations from Charles Manson a while ago, and saw something interesting:-


Charles Manson: "If you're going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."


In the Revolver article late last year, Manson described some of The High End of Low as being "witchy", and so I was struck when reading the above quote. Additionally, despite it being a theme visited in relation to many other cultural signifiers, one of the suggested reasons for Charles Manson's pathos was that he believed the Armageddon was approaching, and when it didn't come, he started to influence the Family murders in order to bring it about. I am not suggesting that Arma-Goddamn-Motherfuckin'-Geddon relates obliquely to Charles Manson, but it seems interesting that such a theme should be visited in a year which marks forty years following the Manson occurences, and that music from the record would be referred to using such uncommon terminology.

During the recording process for The Golden Age of Grotesque, much was made of Manson's fascination with The Black Dahlia, and this was an influence on some of the ideas explred in [I]Spade. The imagery of the era has been discussed in relation to the notion of Lustmord, and corresponding pictures of Dita Von Teese based on other media confirm that, but I did remember that photographs taken in the studio showed that the influence of another female murder victim was present during this time; Sharon Tate:-


http://i403.photobucket.com/albums/pp112/providermodule/Analysis/Tate.jpg


The framed image in the background is a crime scene photograph of Tate's body.

Some of this material is vague, and perhaps the thoughts of others will help to consolidate further, but I felt looking at these points might prove interesting.

Moving on to Marilyn Monroe, I had recently wanted to instigate a topic about Diamonds, seeing as they have featured in Manson's work on more than one occasion, specifically in (s)AINT*, and of course Diamonds and Pollen.


*"You infected me, took diamonds
I took all your shit"


Diamonds are of course, a girl's best friend, as stated in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes. From Doll-Dagga-Buzz Buzz-Zigetty-Zag:- "I don't really care what gentlemen prefer."

I think that maybe this repeated idea of diamonds might refer to female sexuality. I remember the line from Spade, in which Manson says "I'm a diamond that is tired, of all the faces I've acquired", I was always intrigued by this line, as it seems very esoteric, and I think from other areas, it is the feminine side of the Manson personality talking.

I'd like to discuss this diamond idea further, but relating back to Marilyn Monroe, I think that her essence is often instilled in Manson's work. The discussion once undertaken about the "star" of Manson's lyrics remind me of her a lot, particularly in the song EAT ME, DRINK ME, as Monroe was said to be suicidal towards the end of her life, but no one knows whether she actually killed herself, or if it was an accident - "She's been forecast with an attempt to kill herself, but the ending didn't test well".

So this is me trying to locate more about the two sides of the name in Marilyn Manson, as I think there is more to be found. Hopefully we can explore this further.

[Not Mechanical]

However obvious, I feel it may be worth nothing how similar ideas seem to have been used in other areas of Marilyn Manson's work, though I know this has been discussed before at other outlets.
For example:
Marilyn and Manson
Antichrist Superstar
Mechanical Animals
The Golden Age of Grotesque
The High End of Low

The placing together of what some people view as opposites (though, obviously, looking further into these things, the lines are significantly blurred), the good and the bad, draws obvious references to some of the key themes underpinning a lot of Manson's work, namely the hypocrisy and double standards of American society.

[RevManz]

Charles Manson and Marilyn Monroe.

I'd like to discuss this diamond idea further, but relating back to Marilyn Monroe, I think that her essence is often instilled in Manson's work. The discussion once undertaken about the "star" of Manson's lyrics remind me of her a lot, particularly in the song EAT ME, DRINK ME, as Monroe was said to be suicidal towards the end of her life, but no one knows whether she actually killed herself, or if it was an accident - "She's been forecast with an attempt to kill herself, but the ending didn't test well".

So this is me trying to locate more about the two sides of the name in Marilyn Manson, as I think there is more to be found. Hopefully we can explore this further.

actually, i remember you (?) or someone one else discuusing that song, with ''your'' referring to Manson---and how the girl could have represented Manson. heh, this, i feel, just makes it more concrete.

cool observation.

[S.D.]

The placing together of what some people view as opposites (though, obviously, looking further into these things, the lines are significantly blurred), the good and the bad, draws obvious references to some of the key themes underpinning a lot of Manson's work, namely the hypocrisy and double standards of American society.

You know, I actually made the suggestion once that whether intentional or not, you could be ambitious and locate Marilyn Monroe and Charles Manson in Portrait of an American Family. Consider that Marilyn was perhaps the "portrait" of the "all American", and Charles was of course the leader of the "Family", the two being at opposite ends in terms of public opinion.

[The Empirical Guy]

You know, I actually made the suggestion once that whether intentional or not, you could be ambitious and locate Marilyn Monroe and Charles Manson in Portrait of an American Family. Consider that Marilyn was perhaps the "portrait" of the "all American", and Charles was of course the leader of the "Family", the two being at opposite ends in terms of public opinion.

Although I never spotted it myself, I really don't think that is being that ambitious.

While I don't have anything to add, I find this topic very interesting.

[S.D.]

Although I never spotted it myself, I really don't think that is being that ambitious.

I think that was meant more in the sense of it not being necessarily the angle that was intended when the title was chosen.

It's also worth noting that like Marilyn Manson, neither Charles Manson or Marilyn Monroe was the actual name of either person. Monroe was born Norma Jean Mortensen (later Baker), and Charles was born (no name initially) Charles Milles Maddox, but his father's surname was apparently Scott. The Manson came from a man his mother married when Charles was an infant.