View Full Version : Alice

07-24-2009, 03:01 AM
I am certain there are numerous different elements that can be discussed here, and I'm sure they will be, but noticing this small detail about the forthcoming Tim Burton adaptation of Alice's Adventures in Wonderland, I felt inspired to instigate a new topic about any and all relationships between Marilyn Manson and the creations of Lewis Carroll.

The numbers of the film's release date will no doubt be familiar:-


07-24-2009, 03:11 AM

Those are the exact same numbers from that whole CC website episode, aren't they? I remember Carrol's name being brought up- something about cyphers? How truly bizarre. I'll try to look into it, since I need a refresher on Alice anyway.

07-24-2009, 03:17 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_in_w ... athematics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_in_wonderland#References_to_mathematics)

All I know is that it equals 15.
S.D. explained it to me quite well :) Thank you.

08-03-2009, 06:51 PM
There are tons of Alice references throughout Eat Me,Drink Me. It should be Mentioned that
With Carroll there was always a LOGIC that goes hand in hand with the NONSENSE that lies within The codes. I have a post constructed somewhere regarding EMDM that I will dig up as I think SD and Others May be able to further elaborate on and converse.

02-25-2010, 05:29 AM

"They were running hand in hand, and the Queen went so fast that it was all she could do to keep up with her: and still the Queen kept crying 'Faster! Faster!', but alice felt she could not go faster, though she had no breath left to say so.
The most curious part of the thing was, that the trees and the other things round them never changed their places at all: however fast they went, they never seemed to pass anything." - Alice Through The Looking Glass

[On the way to...] The Red Queen (as surmised HERE (http://www.providermodule.com/forum/showthread.php?1812-EAT-ME-DRINK-ME&p=56414&viewfull=1#post56414), The Devil, perhaps) and Alice run through the trees, though nothing around them moves: "Running to the edge of the world, running, running away / I can see a new beginning rise behind the sun, but we can never catch up to it as fast as we run". Earlier, Alice also looks over the Chess Board World (which would no doubt have an edge) from the "top of the hill", and comments on The Garden, to which the Queen responds "I've seen gardens, compared with which this would be a wilderness" - "The Wasteland" / Hell (et cetera). Even this very week Manson's updated MySpace status placed him "in the wilderness"; maybe he, and we, are all still on our way to The Red Queen.
Perhaps if every person has two halves (especially in a looking glass), then Alice's dual sides, like Manson's, equal three when joined by The Devil. Lyrical comparisons have obviously been made with the passage above and Are You The Rabbit?, the same song using the phrase "The Devil's Tits".

03-10-2010, 05:11 PM
I have contributed writings in the Philosophy and Storytelling sections that allude to this topic. I won't copy and paste. However, because I am burning out, and lackluster today, I will attempt to make a somewhat decent half assed effort to draw some parallels and offer some insight. Mostly copy and paste of others discoveries along with my own somewhat dense narratives.

"going out altogether, like a candle." - Putting holes in Happiness. It's obvious. "Blow out the candles, on all of my Frankensteins. At least my death wish will come true, you taste like Valentines."

"You're like a birthday"

Once (The character), "Alice", (Inspired by Alice Liddell;Who was also, like Manson, primarily a water color painter), found herself in a room that she followed through the rabbit hole she found herself in a room with a table. On the table sat a bottle labelled "DRINK ME" that somehow appeared while she was trying to fit through a door but was too small for her to fit through.She drinks the elixir which makes her shrink to a size small enough to fit through the door. She then finds a box under the same table with a cake that reads "EAT ME" on it. - "You're like a Birthday"

What should be brought to light, is that Carroll was notorious for his routine consumption of Absinthe, as a stimulant to induce the imagery during the "art of non sense" era in which he became famous for. So, one could interpret that the bottle contained that of the bitter wormwood itself.

"And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood: and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." (Revelation 8:10, 11 - King ames Bible)."

Other noteworthy References between Alice in Wondorland, and Manson, are from not only The High End of Low, and Eat Me Drink Me. But also from Doppleherz

For instance.. "you can run as fast as you want But you can never outrun the cliché" - "Faster Faster Faster Faster I'm late, I'm running late".

"I am,(you're like a birthday), cake that you light up, blow out(The Candles), cut apart(cut cut cut cut), devour, and "forget" -(If you don't know what for ever feels like, I can show you what it feels like without it").

and...."And I'm painted with fingers Childish pictures Of you that still linger Bury you're wasted into the moon Hoping that it sinks to the earth soon Bury you're wasted into the moon I hope that it sinks into the earth soon."

And finally, to bring this extremley scatterbrained, vague, and probably in the wrong thread paralells. Leaving you to try to peice what everything means through the fog I've created for you. Possibly intentionally, probably not. *sighs and exits thread, turns out the lamp.