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S.D.
10-11-2009, 04:25 PM
Well now, it's not all the time I'm lost entirely for words but I can tell you that today has shown itself in terms of Marilyn Manson analysis, I'm happy to have been looking.

At least a year ago, I was advised the following by someone I both revere and respect:-


"The low people are looking for the high Manson, and Lennon will reveal"

That sentence, though prolific, didn't necessarily hold as much levity yesterday as it does now. I was advised by Nick Sixx. to watch the recent Lady Gaga rendition of Imagine (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGdVnoYRG8k), which I did happily, and during the performance was reminded of Lennon's lyrics, which we had perhaps severely overlooked before now:-


"Imagine there's no Heaven, It's easy if you try
No hell below us, Above us only sky"

No heaven / No Hell
I Have To Look Up Just To See Hell
"Paradise Wasn't Lost It Was Hiding All Along"

The High End of Low

The further the lyrics to Imagine go, the more relevant connections to Manson - [and perhaps Holy Wood as the most deliberately Lennon/Beatles inspired album] - emerge:-


"Nothing to kill or die for, and no religion too"
"Am I sorry for Booth and Oswald?, pinks and cocaine too"

KILL OR DIE
BOOTH -OSWALD

John Wilkes Booth and Lee Harvey Oswald, were they killers, or were they godless? Were they killers with a god? Should we call them heroes? "A killer with a god" - "We were looking for the Lamb of God, we were looking for Mark David"


President Dead is clueless. Caught in a headlight. Are you the rabbit? The President of Whatever.

-<me>-
10-13-2009, 04:03 AM
I found something you may find interesting S.D.

From Kevin Holm-Hudson's book Progressive Rock Reconsidered:-

"Rock music, of which progressive rock is a form, distinguishes itself from “pop” by its claim to authenticity. Initially, for “British Invasion” bands such as The Rolling Stones and the Beatles, or for Bob Dylan, that authenticity came from incorporating the otherness of “authentic” groups, particularly black and rural whites. Those groups were seen to be “real” because they and their music were thought to be outside commercial fabrication. Progressive rockers also needed authenticity; after all, they shared in the prevailing “rock” ethos. But instead of taking their predecessors’ route of “prestige from below” they went the way that the upper-middle class, or nouveau riche always do – emulating the upper classes, especially in their artistic taste; for example, nineteenth century “robber-barons” decorated their homes with classic art. Discussions of progressive rock always indicate how its practitioners overtly announced their upper-middle-class backgrounds and made frequent references to the music, art and literature of high culture.

Progressive rock’s fusion of “high” and “low” art forms was not a unique move. The pop art style, working in the opposite direction, imported pop culture iconography into “serious” art. Think here, for example, of Andy Warhol’s Marilyn Monroe and Campbell’s Soup paintings. Within rock itself, the binary of high and low art had already began to be dissolved in the 1960’s by Bob Dylan and those that followed in Dylan’s wake, such as Simon and Garfunkel and John Lennon. Progressive rock can be understood as belonging to the post modernist movement, which came into being at the same time and championed transgressing the boundaries of high and low culture."

[god]speed
10-13-2009, 04:49 AM
[center:1emjhz6u][youtube:1emjhz6u]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9UTCnMjml0[/youtube:1emjhz6u][/center:1emjhz6u]

I think that both of the concepts that you two have suggested are exactly right, I feel that
Lennon's "god" was written about the worship of false idols and is off of his first post-Beatles solo album John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band may tie both of those ideas together along with the quote that SD posted....


"The low people are looking for the high Manson, and Lennon will reveal"


[center:1emjhz6u]God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,
I&#39;ll say it again,
God is a concept,
By which we can measure,
Our pain,[/center:1emjhz6u]

When you think of how modern culture projects celebrities as "living gods" and
status symbols of "perfection" that we are programmed to admire and aspire to be like, We create our own versions of hell. As we can only ever be ourselves, which seems to "never be good enough to even look upon" we measure our happiness and pain based on what we dream we could be...

Consider the above lyrics as a parallel to the opening verse of In the Shadow of The Valley of Death


[center:1emjhz6u]We have no future
heaven wasn&#39;t made for me
we burn ourselves to hell
as fast as it can be
and I wish that I could be the king
then I&#39;d know that I am not alone[/center:1emjhz6u]

We have no future, Its almost as if we will always be the shadows that destroy ourselves by trying to be the kings and queens that we see on TV... Then maybe we would know that we aren't alone.

[center:1emjhz6u]
Maggots put on shirts
Sell each others shit
sometimes I feel so worthless
sometimes I feel discarded
I wish that I was good enough
then I&#39;d know that I am not alone[/center:1emjhz6u]

They buy the merchandise, try to portray the stars on the screen... Which in turn, sells into the projection of false idols and leaves us low, disposable and ready to be thrown away.... If only we were good enough to be the screen, We'd have it all... and never feel alone again...

The above verses showcase the LOW people looking up to see their stars.


[center:1emjhz6u]
I don&#39;t believe in magic,
I don&#39;t believe in I-ching,
I don&#39;t believe in bible,
I don&#39;t believe in tarot,
I don&#39;t believe in Hitler,
I don&#39;t believe in Jesus,
I don&#39;t believe in Kennedy,
I don&#39;t believe in Buddha,
I don&#39;t believe in mantra,
I don&#39;t believe in Gita,
I don&#39;t believe in yoga,
I don&#39;t believe in kings,
I don&#39;t believe in Elvis,
I don&#39;t believe in Zimmerman,
I don&#39;t believe in Beatles,
I just believe in me,
Yoko and me,
And that&#39;s reality.[/center:1emjhz6u]

This is Lennon's way of burning down the false idol that he had become through the fame and projection of him as a living deity as the mass media portrayed him.
The most important lyrics are the final part of the chorus.. I just believe in me, Yoko and me, And that's reality.

Perhaps, this is Lennon's destruction of his character... Destroying the celebrity... For Celebritarian Needs.


[center:1emjhz6u]
The dream is over,
What can I say?
The dream is over,
Yesterday,
I was dreamweaver,
But now I&#39;m reborn,
I was the walrus,
But now I&#39;m John,
And so dear friends,
You just have to carry on,
The dream is over.[/center:1emjhz6u]

From Wiki:
The final section of the song describes Lennon's change since the breakup of The Beatles. He states that he is no longer the "Dreamweaver" or "The Walrus," but just "John." The final line of the song, "The dream is over," represents Lennon's stance that the myth "the Beatles were God" had come to an end. "If there is a God," Lennon explained, "we're all it."


Manson could say:

The dream is over,
Yesterday Man,
I was a Nihilist (ACSS)
Now Today I'm Reborn
I was the Alpha and Omega,
But Now I'm Just Me
And so Dear Friends,
You Just have to Carry on,
The Dream is over.


Manson and Lennon both destroy the symbols of themselves that their fans were lured into believing were bigger than themselves...

"If there is a God," Lennon explained, "we're all it"



Think of THEOL, Manson has became "one of us" BURNT THE WOODEN GOD, that is the symbol of Marilyn Manson... In THEOL he opens himself up as a normal human being that goes through the same things we all share, heartbreak, happiness, loss, and dreams... Everything that makes us human. We are all the stars and I feel that is what both Lennon and Manson are trying to say.


I'll leave this with a quote from someone whom as SD mentions I admire and respect, that seems to tie it all together...



I think one should forget about Manson the person here and recognize Manson the artist; this is what he wants. You merely become a part of the cultural machine that spits out the pill-form food we digest to satiate our Celebritarian Needs if you seek to 'meet' or 'speak' to Manson.

However, I think it is hard not to fall victim to the craze of Celebritarianism in the societal sense of the phenomenon. We have all at some point desired to have a connection to someone notable, and by any means. Realizing that notability is a facade which is entirely useless from a spiritual and permanent point of view is the only key to making along any path. 'They' really are just like you, so do not view 'them' as deities.




The "Low" People Will Be Looking for "High" Manson, But Lennon will reveal...

ThreeEyedGod
10-13-2009, 08:41 PM
There was Lennon and the happy gun....

Mother Superior

S.D.
10-14-2009, 03:33 PM
There was Lennon and the happy gun...

"Putting holes in happiness", no doubt...

After all, happiness is a warm gun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qE2Vdcv9Q_o). I am sure the music for this song can be found similar in certain sections to A Place In The Dirt. Anyway, Mother Superior and Mother Inferior I believe are the same "Mother" mentioned in The Love Song, it's the version of god that the partiarchal regulators of "The Word" would have you replace with a male god, the dead god that Nietzsche referred to, the one that needs you in line, "faithful".

Thank you once again for such an excellent excerpt -<me>-, and [god]speed, I think that might have been one of the most astute and praiseworthy posts I've seen from you, very passionate work. You're right, I think the modus operandi of the 'Working Class Hero' was to remind people that as humans, we shouldn't be dictated to by "higher" entities that are supposed to rule our lives. Be triumphant in being low --- "I'll step on you on my way down"

When Lennon says "I don't believe in Hitler", he is proclaiming that every man will try to make himself god, and like god itself, the second you disbelieve it, the power it yields lessens, even if it doesn't always stop. It's self preservation. Again, back to the comments on Mother Superior, and your ideas about The Valley of Death, Manson tells us that:-

[center:3hnanjn5]"Valley of Death we are free, your father&#39;s your prison you see"[/center:3hnanjn5]

I can see parallel with this sentence and the following, as the concept of father and imprisonment suggest that being in 'The Shadow' of 'The Valley Of Death' you are being deliberately LOW in order to escape the falsehood inherent in the HIGH of Holy Wood:-

[center:3hnanjn5]"My prison skin&#39;s an eyesore mirror sketch-pad, I am your son, your dad, your fag I am your fad"[/center:3hnanjn5]

This is Manson extolling the virtue of the "working class hero", the "prison skin", is obviously the social taboo of the tattoo (at times in the past associated with convicts or persons of ill-repute), Portrait of an American Family being an album that sees Manson brandishing his body artwork in several places. You'll perhaps remember also that in his autobiography, Manson speaks about the process of his tattoos on several occasions, both when he mentions the tree design being ripped off, and also in the dream/hallucination he has about singing Sweet Dreams, but with a different face and tattoos, in the future.

Once again, I AM YOU becomes clear, the concept of the "mirror sketch-pad" and "I am your son" (Man/Son - Son of Man) is Manson stating that he is as much the creation of a corrupt America as he is a symptom of it, and the originator of the corruption.

The working class hero, is something to be:-

[center:3hnanjn5]"As soon as you&#39;re born, they make you feel small"
"The minute that it&#39;s born, it begins to die"[/center:3hnanjn5]

ThreeEyedGod
10-15-2009, 08:19 AM
I'm oh so glad you managed to work in an analysis of Organ Grinder, my all time favorite. Let us not forget the monkey references.

Everybody's got something to hide..

You say you want an evolution.

spaceSuicide
10-15-2009, 05:34 PM
Anyway, Mother Superior and Mother Inferior I believe are the same "Mother" mentioned in The Love Song, it's the version of god that the partiarchal regulators of "The Word" would have you replace with a male god, the dead god that Nietzsche referred to, the one that needs you in line, "faithful".

What can you say?

Mother Inferior Got Her Gunn.

secretsquirrely
10-17-2009, 02:45 PM
Great, great, great thread. I can not even begin to contribute, but I love reading your theories sometimes S.D. To see such an intellect at work really fascinates me. Perhaps when I am not under the death grip of a cold/flu (unknown really) I can think better and give some two cents into this topic. but so far...bravo.

Shangri-LIE
10-18-2009, 03:40 PM
Here are some other references missing from this thread.

Lyrics - "Baby You're a Rich Man"


One of the beautiful people?
Now that you know who you are
What do you want to be?
And have you travelled very far?
Far as the eye can see.
How does it feel to be
One of the beautiful people?
How often have you been there?
Often enough to know.
What did you see, when you were there?
Nothing that doesn't show.
Baby you're a rich man,
Baby you're a rich man,
Baby you're a rich man too.
You keep all your money in a big brown bag inside a zoo.
What a thing to do.
Baby you're a rich man,
Baby you're a rich man,
Baby you're a rich man too.
How does it feel to be
One of the beautiful people?
Tuned to a natural E
Happy to be that way.
Now that you've found another key
What are you going to play?
Baby you're a rich man,
Baby you're a rich man,
Baby you're a rich man too.
You keep all your money in a big brown bag inside a zoo.
What a thing to do.
Baby you're a rich man...

Not only is that a blatant reference to "The Beautiful People", but also, on Mansons "Lunchbox" single, there is a "Brown Bag" remix of "Lunchbox".

"There was Lennon and the happy gun".

"Next Motherfucker's gonna get my metal".

Shangri-LIE
10-18-2009, 03:40 PM
Here are some other references missing from this thread.

Lyrics - "Baby You're a Rich Man"


How does it feel to be one of the beautiful people?
Now that you know who you are
What do you want to be?
And have you travelled very far?
Far as the eye can see.
How does it feel to be
One of the beautiful people?
How often have you been there?
Often enough to know.
What did you see, when you were there?
Nothing that doesn't show.
Baby you're a rich man,
Baby you're a rich man,
Baby you're a rich man too.
You keep all your money in a big brown bag inside a zoo.
What a thing to do.
Baby you're a rich man,
Baby you're a rich man,
Baby you're a rich man too.
How does it feel to be
One of the beautiful people?
Tuned to a natural E
Happy to be that way.
Now that you've found another key
What are you going to play?
Baby you're a rich man,
Baby you're a rich man,
Baby you're a rich man too.
You keep all your money in a big brown bag inside a zoo.
What a thing to do.
Baby you're a rich man...

Not only is that a blatant reference to "The Beautiful People", but also, on Mansons "Lunchbox" single, there is a "Brown Bag" remix of "Lunchbox".

"There was Lennon and the happy gun".

"Next Motherfucker is gonna get my metal".

"The only thing immmortal in this world is money. The only thing immortal in this world is ...me"