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ThreeEyedGod
10-13-2009, 08:13 PM
I was gonna write an entire analyzation of this topic, but I am lazy and will just get my point across quickly.

As Manson fans we know that Manson has always used the apes and monkeys as analogies or metaphors in his releases. From the "monkey trinity" from Portrait to Baboon Rape Party in Golden. There are of course connections to Nietzsche and other philosophies that Manson delves in. It seems that the monkey business is nowhere to be found in his last two releases..why do you think this is? Was this a conscious decision? His other trademark reference, cars, remain intact...why stop monkeying around?

antichristangel
10-16-2009, 07:24 AM
I think this just has to do with the different nature of the last 2 albums. They deal more with his emotions and personal dilemmas than with society or a message that he is trying to get across. Monkeys or apes just wouldn't make any contextual sense if they were incorporated into the last 2 albums.

S.D.
10-16-2009, 09:27 AM
Monkeys or apes just wouldn't make any contextual sense if they were incorporated into the last 2 albums.

It could be funny though, imagine a song called You And Me And A Monkey Makes 3! Or Unkillable Monkey!

Anyway, I'm not sure if your question was inspired by the recent article on the 3 Wise Monkeys at The Nachtkabarett, but I added some thoughts to that piece with notes and images I had saved, it might be of some interest, it is over there in their analysis section.

As antichristangel has suggested, the thematic of monkeys may not have a place in some of Manson's more recent works, but at the same time, some of the thoughts I offered suggest that the animal (when "not mechanical"), is often a figure of persecution or scapegoating (a literal lamb of god if you will), and other figures and animals have been used in place of the monkey in more recent works, causing Manson to ask "Are you the rabbit or the headlight", figuring the position of abuse given/received. After all it's all meat to be "devoured" right?

[center:3i5rnoch]"Could you stop the meat from thinking for a second before I swallow all of it"
"I'm most monster with my groan box in the 'Meat Show'"[/center:3i5rnoch]

[center:3i5rnoch]http://www.finalbeast.com/marilynmanson/significados/imagenes/mm_logo_tm_gaog.jpg

'Most Monster'[/center:3i5rnoch]
[center:3i5rnoch]THE MEAT SHOW (http://www.funkup.com/exhibitions2.html)[/center:3i5rnoch]

You not the "12 Trees Of Beef Heads" in that list, which is where I presume our erstwhile Swedish counterpart at MansonUSA, who has yet to show his face here took his moniker from...

ThreeEyedGod
10-16-2009, 11:18 AM
^ No, I had not seen that S.D, but I definitely checked it out. An excellent analysis of the ape in Manson's work. Very interesting about Manson trading one animal for another in Are You the Rabbit? I had not thought about trading one sacrificial offering for another.

S.D.
10-16-2009, 11:26 AM
Very interesting about Manson trading one animal for another in Are You the Rabbit? I had not thought about trading one sacrificial offering for another.

[center:3d31j7ga]"The rabbit's just a monkey in disguise"[/center:3d31j7ga]

Freeston3r
10-16-2009, 11:42 AM
Very interesting about Manson trading one animal for another in Are You the Rabbit? I had not thought about trading one sacrificial offering for another.

[center:9mslusb4]"The rabbit's just a monkey in disguise"[/center:9mslusb4]


S.D your too good at analyzing things :D

Shangri-LIE
10-18-2009, 06:14 AM
I believe that Manson uses Monkey analogies because Monkies have AIDS and Manson has Rock n Roll AIDS. Therefore, if you live with apes, man, you've got teh Rock n Roll AIDS.
.

antichristangel
10-18-2009, 12:21 PM
Monkeys or apes just wouldn't make any contextual sense if they were incorporated into the last 2 albums.

It could be funny though, imagine a song called You And Me And A Monkey Makes 3! Or Unkillable Monkey!

Yes, you're right, monkeys certainly would have spiced things up a bit, what about Running to the Edge of the World with a Monkey and Pretty As A (Chimpanzee)?
lol

secretsquirrely
10-19-2009, 07:44 AM
Another example to be used in the most recent album would be that of the werewolf, or "rapist werewolves" to be exact. It is used almost in the exact manner he would refer to humanity as monkeys (granted let's be honest and acknowledge a lot of the monkey symbolism came from the fact it reeeeeally pisses off Christian extremists when you discuss evolution). Both terms are usually use as scapegoats or a way of hiding from their true selves. The monkey comes from those blinding themselves from the fact they have instincts, etc. Werewolves are creatures who are just blatantly hidden and attack when their true forms are shown.

so as S.D. said, the use of the "monkey" or animal symbolism is still there, but he's just using different species lately. Whether this is intentional or not I have no clue, but it is an interesting point that the cars continue but the monkeys have been quiet as of late.

ThreeEyedGod
10-21-2009, 05:54 PM
Monkeys or apes just wouldn't make any contextual sense if they were incorporated into the last 2 albums.

It could be funny though, imagine a song called You And Me And A Monkey Makes 3! Or Unkillable Monkey!

Yes, you're right, monkeys certainly would have spiced things up a bit, what about Running to the Edge of the World with a Monkey and Pretty As A (Chimpanzee)?
lol
How about, Wight Spider Monkey?

S.D.
10-22-2009, 04:07 AM
so as S.D. said, the use of the "monkey" or animal symbolism is still there, but he's just using different species lately. Whether this is intentional or not I have no clue, but it is an interesting point that the cars continue but the monkeys have been quiet as of late.

The way I see it, it's always been about the difference between the "Mechanical" and the "Animate". Charles Manson had a song called Mechanical Man, which Marilyn Manson appropriated for a song regarding a monkey, thus establishing the evolutionary link between apes and man later explored on Holy Wood. As a precursor to Holy Wood though, that link was extended to Mechanical Animals, proposing that man had indeed, as characterised by Charles Manson, become non-mammalian; mechanical. Knowing that humans are mechanical animals, Manson's hand explores them and himself as such, using various creatures as the basis for this. So much of his work is about the expression of emotions that it seems befitting, knowing that Manson considers one specific statement on The High End of Low to describe he and his band, that they are depicted thus:-

[center:kesz9vhb]Four Rusted Horses
---------------
M E C H A N I C A L
A N I M A L S[/center:kesz9vhb]

Much like cattle "hung with velvet rope", the 'Four Rusted Horses' symbolise Manson and his work being turned into something unimportant, the greater ethos being missed by people who aren't good enough to appreciate it in the first place, suggesting that much like Alchemy --- [Because Marilyn Manson is an Alchemical man] --- it should be used in order to strengthen and teach, rather than to be ridiculed and belittled by genuine mechanical animals. After all, "if we cry, we will rust", suggests that despite being rendered mechanical like others, the 'Four Rusted Horses' still retain enough humanity to bear witness to Arma-Goddamn-Motherfuckin'-Geddon.