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The Empirical Guy
10-26-2009, 05:08 AM
I've just noticed a few little things about the phrase "I AM YOU" that I thought were interesting and could warrant some discussion.

So "I AM YOU" was a Charles Manson quote that Marilyn Manson has appropriated, most significantly on the art work for POAAF. However I just came across this:


Moses said to God, "Suppose I go to the Israelites and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is his name?' Then what shall I tell them?"

God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'I AM has sent me to you.' "

--- Exodus 3: 13-14, New International VersionHere God identifies himself as "I AM". So then does "I AM YOU" imply that you are in fact God? During MM's early career he was often identified and associated with LaVeyan Satanism, which states that each person is, in fact, their own God. An intentional link perhaps? The Charles Manson inspired My Monkey states that "we are all wicked gods", after all.

It has also been said that Charles Manson may have thought of himself as a type of messenger or angel from God... an exterminating angel, travelling executioner from heaven...?

And finally, just as I was looking up some info for this, I found something saying that The Family believed the city they would retreat to during Helter Skelter would have chocolate fountains... very Willy Wonka, I'd say, and an interesting link for two early Manson influences.

Just some thoughts... discuss!

[god]speed
10-26-2009, 05:53 AM
I am a reflection of [god] the narcissist that gazes into the puddle to find the self. But alas, I turned into a flower that is withering and planted in the gardens, Waiting here for you, and to die like flowers do.
http://images.art.com/images/products/large/10000000/10000755.jpg

I know you are, so am I.

S.D.
10-27-2009, 06:27 PM
WHITE TRASH GET DOWN ON YOUR KNEES --- Personal Jesus

"Cause I am whatever you say I am, if I wasn't, then why would I say I am?
In the papers, the news, everyday I am, I don't know it's just the way I am

When a dude's gettin bullied and shoots up your school*
And they blame it on Marilyn, and the heroin, where were the parents at?"

Eminem - The Way I Am

"The big bully try to stick his finger in my chest, try to tell me, tell me he's the best.
Well I don't really give a good goddamn cause, I got my lunchbox and I'm armed real well"

Marilyn Manson - Lunchbox

Eminem --- M and M --- I AM YOU

I think that not only is the sentiment of The Way I Am purely Celebritarian, but there is mirrored content in I AM YOU and the words "I am whatever you say I am" and in The Reflecting God, "I say it is then it's true". I'm reminded also of Eminem as featured on Guns, God and Government, as he is ready to introduce Manson onstage and says "I'm sick and tired and sick and tired of everybody talking shit about... Me", [paraphrased] which despite intended as a sarcastic build up and then self reference, still compounds the comparison between Manson and Eminem. Also, as the above thoughts suggest, the M and M of Marilyn Manson and Marshall Mathers have been referenced on a few occasions. In an interview Manson conducted with Blender (I think in 2003), he had the following to say (presumably in relation to Eminem acting in 8 Mile):-


"Someone was stupid enough to ask me, ‘So, you’re acting now — do you consider yourself the next Eminem?’ Are you an idiot? I’m the first Eminem."

Several other ideas relating Manson and Eminem are present. White America seems to me to be comparable not only in name, but in spirit to the tone of Blank And White* and We're From America, most obviously, but also when relating the two MTV Awards appearances that Manson and Eminem made, performing White America and The Beautiful People respectively:-



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZygqFt408s


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lo3pLmBrJwQ

In either case, you'll note of course the podium, and also the relation of fascism. Manson is the Rock N' Roll Nigger, and Eminem:-

"Shit, wow, I'm like my skin is it starting to work to my benefit now"

Also, referring back to the quote concerning 8 Mile, it might be of some interest, regarding Eminem's referral to himself as objectively "white", that his character in that film was called B-Rabbit, and so by defintion he was in fact a White Rabbit...

Anway, reverting back to tangent, as I have stipulated in other posts, if "God is in the TV", and "The screen is us and we're TV", then by all accounts, I AM YOU. Additionally, if "I am your shit, you should be ashamed of what you have eaten", then the directive to "Eat me, drink me", seems to make more sense.

secretsquirrely
10-29-2009, 11:29 AM
And once again SD comes out of left field for a complete MIND FUCK. wow serioudly. We went from God to Eminem and goddammit it made perfect sense lol

Dysmorphia
11-01-2009, 01:58 AM
And once again SD comes out of left field for a complete MIND FUCK. wow serioudly. We went from God to Eminem and goddammit it made perfect sense lol

I would not expect anything less.

I was listening to POAAF this morning and another I AM stood out to me.
That was "I hate therefore I am" (Get Your Gunn), an appropriation of the famous René Descartes quote- "I think therefore I am".
I do appologise if his has been raised in earlier threads- as I am sure it must have somewhere- but to hate, one must think and to think, one must exist. To be a hating, thinking, existing being one will become their own god as mentioned previously by The Empirical Guy -"we are all wicked gods".

The Empirical Guy
11-03-2009, 06:57 AM
I was listening to POAAF this morning and another I AM stood out to me.
That was "I hate therefore I am" (Get Your Gunn), an appropriation of the famous René Descartes quote- "I think therefore I am".
I do appologise if his has been raised in earlier threads- as I am sure it must have somewhere- but to hate, one must think and to think, one must exist. To be a hating, thinking, existing being one will become their own god as mentioned previously by The Empirical Guy -"we are all wicked gods".

Now this is a worthwhile post to make a comeback with ;)

How like you to pick up on something like this. The hate/ think/ exist thing hasn't been mentioned here before, but it has been mentioned by Manson. At the Melbourne show on the 10th, before Irresponsible Hate Anthem, Manson spoke about hate. I'll have to try and find an accurate as possible transcription of the speech to get it in detail, but basically he stated that "I need hate to do what I have to do" or something similar. Basically, though, without hate, Marilyn Manson, as a concept, would have never really came to be, and he would not exist.

S.D.
11-03-2009, 08:30 AM
Basically, though, without hate, Marilyn Manson, as a concept, would have never really came to be, and he would not exist.

Indeed, the following lines corresponding to better illustrate as much:-


"You cannot sedate all the things you hate"
"I've got mood poisoning, must be something that I hate"

Note once again the parallel between "you" and "I".

The Empirical Guy
11-03-2009, 07:44 PM
I found a video of the speech:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=StAaFMuPi-M

Ok, so I was a little bit off on the details, and the "to do what I have to do" bit I quoted isn't actually there. However, I believe the principle remains the same in that he states he needs hate for himself and, as Dysmorphia pointed out, hating and existing are tied together.

It's also interesting how that was joined to the My Monkey line about being our own gods, as the Bible will tell us that God hates. Even an omnipotent, benevolent being cannot exist without hating, it seems.

ThreeEyedGod
12-09-2009, 03:57 AM
Let's not forget the image of the hand gripping the pistol as it is aimed directly at the viewer that accompanies the phrase in the booklet. Manson is self-reflecting not only a finger right back at you, but a god-damned barrel of a gun.

" shoot, shoot, shoot motherfucker"- The Reflecting God

You will also note that the father is the cover is wearing a belt buckle with the pistol drawing...I AM You.

...Manson has had a gun reference in every album, and also a car reference, but the ape references stopped with EMDM.

brian219
01-08-2013, 09:27 PM
Sorry to play necromancer and all, but I was just thinking about the way ACSS replaces the U in SVPERSTAR with a V like in Latin and can't help but think the word "YOU," which is "tu" in Latin, would have been rendered TV.

So, I am you = I am TV = God is TV. If everyone is a god then "the screen is us and we're TV" and "God is in the TV." And "Kill your god, kill your TV" becomes "kill your SELF, kill your SELF."

This also ties into lyrics about people just being what he projects himself onto and seeing his horror reflected in sundowns of blank stares or whatever.

Also "et tv, brvte" and something about Shakespeare. I dunno.

ThreeEyedGod
01-09-2013, 11:47 AM
It also reminds me of one of my favorite lyrics from the band Devo in the song Peek-A-Boo: " I know what you do, because I do it too". Such a profound lyrics yet very self-explanatory as to the heavy significance of such a seemingly simple lyric.

brian219
01-09-2013, 11:58 AM
I don't know the song but, you're right, that line is incredibly profound.

Elizabeth Casto
01-17-2013, 06:57 PM
Let's not forget the image of the hand gripping the pistol as it is aimed directly at the viewer that accompanies the phrase in the booklet. Manson is self-reflecting not only a finger right back at you, but a god-damned barrel of a gun.

" shoot, shoot, shoot motherfucker"- The Reflecting God

You will also note that the father is the cover is wearing a belt buckle with the pistol drawing...I AM You.

...Manson has had a gun reference in every album, and also a car reference, but the ape references stopped with EMDM.
apes just turned to monkeys. "watching monkey suicide" monkeys are cute apes. they have tails.

Sans Agendum
01-18-2013, 05:48 PM
I think it's just his way of saying he's the product of AMerican society so you have to check yourself before you criticize or hate on him.

Elizabeth Casto
01-25-2013, 02:01 PM
A muse for your amusement.

I am used.
does i am you have anything to do with that?

The Empirical Guy
01-25-2013, 05:23 PM
No, I really don't think so. The phrase hasn't really been used since the Portrait days, and I don't think every instance since of the letters A & M together are a secret reference to it.

Sans Agendum
01-26-2013, 09:53 PM
A muse for your amusement.

I am used.
does i am you have anything to do with that?

2 claps

and some encouragement to keep seeking without promising anything worth finding... seriously there is nothing.

We've abandoned words and have adopted pain,

crazybitch
01-26-2013, 10:51 PM
I think Marilyn Manson has become an archetype of rebellion. He is the essence of collective power enacted through individual self expression.
While no man is perfect, Marilyn Manson has stuck through all the pain and blame to the end. That to me is respectable and honorable.

BlueEyeLens
01-27-2013, 02:05 PM
Marilyn Manson IS the new model Jesus, of our time. It isn't hard to see that or figure out. Or more like a "pissed off Jesus", for the way the world is like today and yesterday. "I Am You" is a mirrored image phrase of a dying Icon.

Fav
01-31-2013, 06:38 PM
I think it's just his way of saying he's the product of AMerican society so you have to check yourself before you criticize or hate on him.
I agree, people are looking far too much into it. Manson would often proclaim to people who were scared or shocked by him that he was merely a reflection of their own fears, especially the Christians that would make up grandiose lies about him. People projected their "bad qualities" on MM because they needed a scapegoat, a figure, to place a finger on and blame.


"Calliopenis envy from your daddy/ You're not gonna hear what he don't want to hear/ What I say disgusts him/ He wants to be me and that scares him."



No idea what 'calliopenis' means, but the rest of the lyrics pretty much encompass the point I'm trying to make, and it's quite fitting since Organ Grinder is on Portrait of an American Family which the phrase "I AM YOU" appeared in.

AssetReign
01-31-2013, 06:44 PM
"Calliopenis envy" is another of his clever twists of an oft-repeated phrase (and isn't a "real" word.)
Calliope was the muse of epic poetry.

Fav
01-31-2013, 07:15 PM
"Calliopenis envy" is another of his clever twists of an oft-repeated phrase (and isn't a "real" word.)
Calliope was the muse of epic poetry.
Thanks for that. I'll bet in the song it meant something along the lines of people secretly admiring, yet protesting against his art.

Sans Agendum
01-31-2013, 07:38 PM
"You don't want to be it, you only want to see it"

"Looking Glass People"

Sans Agendum
01-31-2013, 07:41 PM
"Calliopenis envy" is another of his clever twists of an oft-repeated phrase (and isn't a "real" word.)
Calliope was the muse of epic poetry.

A Calliope is also a name for the crank organ used by certain street musicians, or say, an "Organ Grinder".

http://www.tonymarston.net/php-mysql/organ-grinder-and-monkey.jpg

. And Penis Envy is of Freudian psychology.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penis_envy

SOOOOOOOOO

Yes, as Favenris stated, he's saying your parents are just jealous of the music born hedonistic life he lives in and they couldn't obtain, so that's why they speak ill of him. He is so different, yet so much more successful, as well as more honest to his true nature.

TheTeletubbieFlasher
01-31-2013, 08:20 PM
http://www.tonymarston.net/php-mysql/organ-grinder-and-monkey.jpg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WhwbxEfy7fg

gabrieltoxic
02-01-2013, 06:00 AM
I don't now if it adds much to what's already been presented on this thread, but Iggy Pop used to repeat 'I Am You' to the audience on his shows.