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S.D.
03-14-2010, 06:47 AM
There is plenty more to add under this title, I'm sure it'll branch out into other areas as well, but I read a topic (http://www.nachtkabarett.com/babalon/topic/699--what-s-this-pic-) at Babalon, and the old banner from Manson's MySpace was saved there, which prompted me to make this comparison. I don't think anyone ever considered it outside of a music program, but seeing it again made me think:-


http://providermodule.com/Administrators/S.D./Monitor.jpg

"TWO HEARTBEATS AHEAD IN HELL"


The first part of the image is obviously from the EAT ME, DRINK ME booklet, on the lyric sheet for They Said That Hell's Not Hot. I hadn't considered it as displaying two heartbeats before now.
Doppelherz, Heart-Shaped Glasses, Les Fleurs Du Mals, Manson's eyes on the final pages of EAT ME, DRINK ME, the very duality of 'Marilyn Manson', "Et Cetera". It all seems to follow this pattern, these two hearts "crossed", A Hole Where The Heart Is, Stigmata on heart-guided hands - The Celebritarian Doublecross - it all becomes binary eventually.
I even wondered if the beeping sound that you can hear at the end of Pretty As A Swastika was a hospital heart monitor. I suppose even that song itself has its own duality, as there were two versions of it recorded for The High End Of Low. That heart monitor sound reminds me of the beeping from the EAT ME, DRINK ME incarnation of MarilynManson.com also. And please correct me if wrong, but was one of the background projections for The Rape Of The World tour a heart monitor with MM flashing in the lines? I swear I have seen that aesthetic, I just can't find a picture of it in any of my albums.

Another idea I've been thinking about for some time now is related to Use Your Fist Not Your Mouth. In the song, Manson says "Since God thinks I don't exist The Beatings happen Per Minute". I think due to the supposed "violence" of the song's title, most people assumed that to be a reference to beatings in the conflict sense, but whenever I hear it, I always draw the conclusion that he means heartbeats again, the medical acronym BPM standing for "Beats Per Minute" when monitoring patient heart rates. I think the lyric is supposed to imply that when Manson knows he is Godless, his art is most fervent, his "heart" beats more frequently.

Anyway, I have a few more ideas to add, but I hope this is of some substance.

spaceSuicide
03-14-2010, 08:17 AM
Manson always seems to reference things in twos and in 15.

Norsefire
03-14-2010, 08:35 AM
Here is the Heart Beat M's from the Rape of the World tour. Video by Hazekiah, I knew he had them recorded, you can see them at the start, but about a minute into it you get a great shot of it.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9mg42GwJGI

timoldbean
03-14-2010, 08:38 AM
forgotten about that image that headed the myspace page, ... wasn't it one of the first things that was released for the album?

great strong associations you make!

S.D.
03-14-2010, 10:06 AM
Thank you Norsefire (and Hazekiah, by default!). I knew I had seen that somewhere, I think it might even have been that video in fact, I remember thinking it was an excellent rendition of Car Crash. I also like the fact that the MM isn't necessarily overt on the screen, it isn't like a known Manson typography flashes up in there, but the natural audience reaction is that they are supposed to see the double M. I also thought that if it's like Manson is in the heartbeat of his audience, or who he sings to, then that reflects the lyric from Leave A Scar: "I'm moving fast and if I stay inside your heart, I'm certain this will be the end of your life." The way I interpret this, it's him saying that he'll change your perception of art, your "life" will end, because in the Alchemical sense, if something ends then it must be reborn, most overtly stated in The Fall Of Adam and If I Was Your Vampire.

In response to Nick, agreed, and I think generally the 15 is referenced as a singular, like it just represents Manson on its own and cannot be changed, which I suppose makes sense considering you cannot divide it by two. It's like saying the two halves of Marilyn Manson always make a whole and cannot be separated. But yes, other things are often referenced in twos, and also threes as well, they've been significant for a long time, the three monkeys, the three sections of The Tryptych (and three parts to Antichrist Superstar), Trismegistus, et al.

A few other ideas... If you listen to Devour, this seems a bit obvious to note, but at some points the bass sounds exactly like a heartbeat, mostly during the chorus of "And I'll love you...". I think this is intentional. I also wonder if there is a relationship between "I will blow your heart to pieces" / "Let me show you where it hurts" / "I'm more like a silver bullet".

One other thing I had considered was that the notion of "Doppelherz" and Mar1lyn Man5on was perhaps explored on Holy Wood as well. Coma Black is the 15th track on the album, and it has two parts, both of which discuss the heart, one male, another female:-


"My Heart's A Tiny Bloodclot" / "Her Heart's A Bloodstained Egg"
THE ANDROGYNE



http://www.nachtkabarett.com/ihvh/img/king_and_queen.jpg

http://providermodule.com/Administrators/S.D./MechanicalAnimals.jpg


So in relation to what I said before about 15 being the singular, perhaps that is why. The Doppelherz represents 15, as does The Androgyne, the inherent character of Marilyn Manson, comprised of two parts/hearts that you cannot separate. That concept is hardly new, but it's nice to find different ways of looking at it.
Also yes, Tim, that banner was there for some time, a lot of people were trying to dissect it, seeing if they could work out what the two lines might be musically, but in the end I think it was forgotten. It's nice to perhaps find meaning in it later on down the road.

Fav
03-14-2010, 10:41 AM
I'd also like to mention that the drums in Heart-Shaped Glasses were intentionally written to sound like a heart beat. But I'm much more fascinated by the first two pictures in this thread... what happened on 07/16/1991 06:01:46PM at St. Vincent Hospital, and has anybody tried to apply the music graph?

S.D.
03-14-2010, 11:15 AM
Your keen eye might have unearthed something interesting there Favenris...

In the EAT ME, DRINK ME (http://www.providermodule.com/forum/showthread.php?1812-EAT-ME-DRINK-ME) thread here, I tried to get (as best I could) all of the partially hidden text down from the album booklet, and we found that some of it had brief snippets that were similar to lyrics from The High End Of Low. Though in that thread, I had the date down as 03/17/1997 (it's definitely 1997, not 1991), but looking at it again the first part does look more likely it could be 7/16 and not 3/17. On that basis, I have no idea what might have occurred on the date, though it changes the perspective, as in March 1997 the band were on tour, but there were no scheduled shows in the first half of July. They played San Bernardinio on the 29th of June that year, and there was apparently a gap right up until the 23rd of July, when they did Vancouver in Canada...

So according to the chart, if read with the day and month as you're seeing it, something occurred causing Manson to be treated at a St. Vincent Medical Centre in that time period. That still doesn't answer the question of whether it is intrinsically linked to They Said That Hell's Not Hot or the album as a whole) in any way, but it's an interesting development in any case...

Here are the US-based St. Vincent Centres, I think we can assume it was in the US in that brief space between being in California and Canada:-

http://www.stvincents.org/ - Bridgeport Connecticut
http://www.svcmc.org/landing.cfm?id=32 - Manhattan, New York
http://www.svcmc.org/landing.cfm?id=33 - Westchester, New York
http://www.providence.org/Oregon/facilities/hospitals/providence_st_vincent - Portland, Oregon
http://www.stvincenthospital.com/Home.aspx - Worcester, Massachusetts
http://www.stvincentmedicalcenter.com/Pages/default.aspx - Los Angeles, California

Fav
03-14-2010, 12:03 PM
Since I think They Said Hell's Not Hot is about suicide, it might have been a failed attempt. Or maybe something having to do with his girlfriend at the time.

Shangri-LIE
03-14-2010, 05:54 PM
http://goldennumber.net/images/ekg.jpg

1/0=∞

1/1=1

2/1=2

3/2=1.5

5/3=1.666..

8/5=1.6

13/8=1.625

http://goldennumber.net/images/fiboconv.gif

Other than the EKG charts, and corresponding codes that I'll let you "Who's" decipher and find relevance in. I've also looked at it from the aspect of "two heartbeats ahead in Hell" as him possibly referring to decades. "Every Generation thinks that it's the last."

Marilyn Manson has referred to "AntI SVper Star" as more of a "personal apocalypse", as well as he did with "Eat Me Drink Me." With each album that succeded each apocalypse symbolizing a rebirth of some kind. Whether if it is Manson beginning to feel more Human than an ape, or a rebellious psuedo Satan, or if it is himself finding something else to believe in, a new place to grow, another world to start over and end with ETC...

We've been driving on E..TC, Ex ToxCins, ExsTaCy....*wink

The Empirical Guy
03-14-2010, 06:02 PM
I'd also like to mention that the drums in Heart-Shaped Glasses were intentionally written to sound like a heart beat. But I'm much more fascinated by the first two pictures in this thread... what happened on 07/16/1991 06:01:46PM at St. Vincent Hospital, and has anybody tried to apply the music graph?

Now you mention it, I can hear the relation, but I've can't remember ever seeing it in an official source as the "intent"... is this in an interview or something I've missed?

S.D, brilliant observations as always.

Shangri-LIE
03-14-2010, 07:25 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1795000/images/_1799934_siamese_twins_inf300.gif

http://www.nachtkabarett.com/ihvh/img/king_and_queen.jpg

As I was revising the page. I immediatly forgot what I had intended to incorporate into my previous post. We are taught, well, from the perspective of a theist, that the mind body and spirit are all one entity. We were born imperfect, and the only way to become a whole is to find the second half of the equation that equals you.

http://www.positiveastrology.com/images/mansonwood.png

The Chart above plays an interesting, and integral role, even if it is astrological. For example...

"The second divorcing couple are Marilyn Manson and Dita Von Teese, whose separation has come about for the following reason according to Dita: "I wasn't supportive of his partying or his relationship with another girl. As much as I loved him I wasn't going to be part of that". The other is girl is said to be Evan Rachel Wood. Here again we encounter a relationship founded upon the progressed Venus (cell D6) natal Sun (cell E3) opposition, and while the same signs are involved (Aries and Libra), this time we have a progressed Venus in Aries (not its most conventionally favorable place) and natal Sun in Libra. The opposition achieves exactness around mid 2002 (we don't have a time of birth for Dita, so this may be out by a few months). It is followed - tag style - by a second Sun Venus opposition (pSun in cell D3 and nVenus in cell E6) which peters out in September 2007. Manson has, it would appear, moved on to another relationship, which is described by Evan Rachel Wood as "healthy and loving", and here's why. They share a natal Sun (B3) natal Venus (E6) trine (it's just wide of the two degree mark here, but again there is no time of birth for Wood, so it may be slightly closer). This is one of those relationship aspects that just keeps popping up again and again. So much so that I have to concur with those who think it really is a Cinderella aspect. In this case a small fly in the ointment may be Wood's progressing Venus (C6) which until 2010 will be applying in square aspect to Manson's natal Sun (B3). This means some star-crossed situations for a couple of years. Perhaps they'll be kept apart by work commitments or maybe, just maybe, her parents won't approve, but that's just the nature of Venus Sun squares."

www.positiveastrology.com/blog.asp (http://www.positiveastrology.com/blog.asp)

S.D.
06-15-2012, 03:21 AM
From the recent high-resolution released Joseph Cultice shoots, I noticed a recurring idiosyncrasy during Mechanical Animals. Compare how in both Cultice's shot, and the Rolling Stone golden suit shoot, "The hole is where the heart is":-


http://providermodule.com/Administrators/S.D./hole_heart_mechanical.png http://www.providermodule.com/gallery/albums/userpics/10001/MA_Promotional_56.jpg

In both cases, the area behind Manson can be seen through a hole in his chest.

kleiner352
06-15-2012, 12:41 PM
Also let's not forget the heartbeat at the end of Cryptorchid and beginning of Antichrist Superstar (title track), both of which have drums that are obviously made to sound like a heart beating.
Also his painting "Someone Should Put Hearts Over Her Eyes".

kk_15
05-13-2014, 11:50 AM
Noticed it by chance today, on the lyric page for "They Said That Hell's Not Hot", on the left-hand side you can just about see a medical graph with the name Warner, Brian and the date 07/16/1997 and the time 06:01:46 PM recorded at St. Vincent hospital and medical center.

Can anyone divulge as to why this is in here? I haven't read his autobiography for a while but wasn't this the night he nearly overdosed on cocaine and where Missy or whoever came to get him?

kk_15
05-14-2014, 06:14 AM
Thank you to whoever moved me into this thread, have learnt even more stuff!

Hazekiah
05-16-2014, 06:44 PM
Noticed it by chance today, on the lyric page for "They Said That Hell's Not Hot", on the left-hand side you can just about see a medical graph with the name Warner, Brian and the date 07/16/1997 and the time 06:01:46 PM recorded at St. Vincent hospital and medical center.

Can anyone divulge as to why this is in here? I haven't read his autobiography for a while but wasn't this the night he nearly overdosed on cocaine and where Missy or whoever came to get him?

No, that was during the recording of Antichrist Superstar.

On 6 p.m. that day he would have been getting ready to take the stage in Columbus, OH...so it was probably his paperwork from having FINALLY gotten stitched after the show immediately before that in East Rutherford, NJ on the 15th, which he discussed in the Tour Diary section at the end of The Long Hard Road Out of Hell:

"I ended up slashing myself pretty badly, and paramedics won't stitch you on the spot for insurance reasons. They wanted me to go to the hospital, but I stayed backstage and got drunk with Pantera."

Haha...fuck, yeah.

\m/

blue angel
06-09-2014, 04:59 PM
great thread

Nemoris Inferioris
10-14-2014, 06:41 AM
If you listen closely to the 'Hidden' Verse in EAT ME, DRINK ME, you can hear "Two Hearts Is Equal". or Two Hearts Are Equal.

Elizabeth Casto
11-21-2014, 04:47 PM
can you figure out what else is said during that interlude?

Nemoris Inferioris
11-21-2014, 07:05 PM
can you figure out what else is said during that interlude?

I can try, it is quite hard to, since the verse is chopped up. And he is whispering it. But yes. Sometimes you hear more with speakers than headphones.

S.D.
11-22-2016, 02:16 PM
So, has it just escaped my attention, or has everyone already spotted that the 'Heart Beat' during Cryptorchid is exactly the same as the one you hear at the beginning of Antichrist Superstar (live, notably on Remix & Repent)? I can't remember if it's still used on tour now, as I've not seen the band since 2012, but in any case, it draws an interesting line between the two songs, and even the sequential nature of the album itself. It also suggests (albeit tangentially) that the opening notes of Antichrist Superstar are intended to be heard as a heart beat. Given that this is the album's turning point into Cycle III, it could suggest an evolutionary transformation into the Beast.

cataract777
11-22-2016, 08:38 PM
So, has it just escaped my attention, or has everyone already spotted that the 'Heart Beat' during Cryptorchid is exactly the same as the one you hear at the beginning of Antichrist Superstar (live, notably on Remix & Repent)? I can't remember if it's still used on tour now, as I've not seen the band since 2012, but in any case, it draws an interesting line between the two songs, and even the sequential nature of the album itself. It also suggests (albeit tangentially) that the opening notes of Antichrist Superstar are intended to be heard as a heart beat. Given that this is the album's turning point into Cycle III, it could suggest an evolutionary transformation into the Beast.

Yes, I've noticed that. Made for an awesome transition when it was done live back in '96 and '97, the way Cryptorchid went into Antichrist Superstar. The heartbeat is still used live currently when Antichrist Superstar is being performed. I enjoy it, but I also loved the King Kill 33 intro. That was badass.

Enname
11-22-2016, 09:36 PM
Yes, it seems to be the same heartbeat. I had always thought though that if you take the heartbeat as somewhat more literal and think about a hatching process of say pupae to butterfly - mostly because a lot of the associated visual imagery around the album is so insect driven - then the heart during Cryptorchid tends to represent the pupae phase. The middle cycle is when the caterpillar devours itself (heart as well) leaving nothing but 'really useful caterpillar soup'. Then the body parts are grown in afresh. The restarting of the heart with Antichrist Superstar is the final phase, the restarting of life so to say. All bits are attached start hatching forth into the world. Even the wings appearing earlier on in the cycle still works, because there are species of caterpillar that have them all the way through .

arkahno
11-23-2016, 12:44 PM
I don't know if this add something relevant to the convesation, but I did not see anyone point it out.
During one of the bridges in the If I was your vampire song you can hear a heartbeat behind the music, I'm pretty sure that is part of some kind of story that conects with "just a car crash away" since the diagram of the heartbeat is shown in that song during the tour.

(In other subjet, has anyone noticed that during "just a car crash away" live performances it was also shown a big fire, and then manson wrote a song called "into the fire" just like he was telling the same story during two different songs?)