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View Full Version : Euthanizing mentally crippled friends.



Shangri-LIE
05-10-2011, 06:47 PM
I have an essay that I will present after I get so many replies. I just want to know how everyone stands on "taking out" special people. Even if they aren't in need of special care. Stupid people. Not people that say stupid things. Just pure dumb bred folks. Should we focus on eliminating them? Should we give everyone a 10 year grace period to persue higher education before they can be legally put to death? Again, essay coming. Warning, it will make so much sense that you will want to get sick. Begin your preliminary deliberations.

P.S. message board punctuation skills are immune to this proverbial crusade due to the fact that the author is/may be trying to convey something in a way that is virtually indechipherable to each individual reader.

Golden Eel
05-11-2011, 12:36 AM
As someone who suffers from being mentally crippled, I think we should not kill us. Some things can be fixed.

Emma
05-11-2011, 02:46 AM
So society should basically give up on those less fortunate than us - those whom on the outside may look different but inside are just the same, those who on the inside near more care but have just as much love to give?

No I don't think we should - as has been said, science is advancing, help will come. In the meantime we have a duty to care and support - either that or we may as well say the orphanages in Romania that hold children in cots who are mentally or physically disabled are actually great advances in care. (note sarcasm)

Shangri-LIE
05-12-2011, 05:40 PM
So society should basically give up on those less fortunate than us - those whom on the outside may look different but inside are just the same, those who on the inside near more care but have just as much love to give?

No I don't think we should - as has been said, science is advancing, help will come. In the meantime we have a duty to care and support - either that or we may as well say the orphanages in Romania that hold children in cots who are mentally or physically disabled are actually great advances in care. (note sarcasm)

I know that what I've proposed seems cynical. However, I am actually a very merciful and benevolant person. I've worked in group home settings with severely handicapped clients. People. Science is advancing, but what do you mean by that? That there will be soon have the budget and diagnostic medical know how to end all needless human suffering? I'm not calling you out or challenging you, but I am just curious as what you meant by that. What department of the all powerful diety of science? What aspects? What specifics?

These individuals are in pain. They will never function properly, and are in constant discomfort/fear of their surroundings. Why not create a bill that would put in to law, much like DNR forms at hospitals that any patient can fill out, that allows the family/power of attorney/any custodial units that could determine to have a person who suffers from severe retardation/any other debilitating illness euthanized? I am not speaking of schizo's, or depressives, or people with low IQ's, or people with deformities/whatever. For example I had a client that I used to assist at a company that I used to work for. He had cerebral palsey, was severely retarded, would shit himself constantly, and shake in pain. What kind of quality of life is that? I also was assigned to other clients who would scream, cry, and lash out because everything startled, terrified, or caused them pain. It's more about mercy and not just getting rid of them.

Edit - I was being sarky at the beginning, but let's talk about this. You'll see how it ties in.

VelvetAIDS
05-12-2011, 05:45 PM
We're going to have a population problem sooner or later. Might as well start fixing it early.

The Empirical Guy
05-12-2011, 08:36 PM
My views on euthanasia are the same as my views on suicide because, whether people like to face it or not, they're two words for the exact same thing. People just feel more comfortable with one than the other.

Your body and your life is your own. You may do with it as you wish. That includes choosing to end it when you wish. However, if you decide to take that option, you must think of other people. So, you decide to kill yourself, for whatever reason: how will this affect family and friends? Even those with severe depression must understand that their death will affect someone, if their mind is too displaced to recognize this then they're in no position to be making such large scale decisions anyway. If you can honestly say that your death will have no affect on anyone (and that would probably involve being born in isolation and living on a mountain top your whole life until both parents were dead), then go right ahead and off yourself. What difference does it make? It's only you that cares, and if a tree falls in a wood etc etc...

However, if you decide to kill yourself despite the feelings of others, and do so knowing that your death will cause them some kind of pain or grief then, well, you're just a big fucking asshole really, plain and simple.

On to the issue at hand... if you want to "euthanize" (aka kill) mentally crippled people, well, have you considered moving to North Korea? Are we talking about just killing them because they're retarded? That's not your choice, and would be murder. Are we saying should they be allowed to make the choice for themselves? If their mind is in the correct mental state, they choose to do so and their loved ones are ok with it, then isn't their choice? What are you going to do, strap them down tight and say "No! You must live, against your will!" That just seems bizarre.

But here's the thing. If you're going to go out, then there should be no difference between "euthanasia" and "suicide". Often the only difference is the method it is done. A guy hangs himself, suicide. A guy gives himself lethal injection, euthanasia. We're also forgetting a third term here, execution, also by lethal injection. Injection seems a bit of a cop out to me, I think people often see that as a more respectable way to go out, and while it is certainly peaceful, it's really no different to putting a .22 in your mouth and painting the walls red. You're killing yourself, plain and simple, whether it's with a needle, a gun, a noose, or a plastic bag. I see some people that go on and on about how they want euthanasia but "can't" because it's illegal and they can't get one of those injection machines, and I wonder how bad they really want it and where their balls are.

I must stop here before I babble more.

Shangri-LIE
05-12-2011, 08:55 PM
I can answer that with a simple "great". If you are pointless to life, and life is pointless to you then take your place amongst some of the most scenic, beautifful cemetaries. People in irreversable pain have the right to die. Just as we have the right, as we do kill criminals, and war enemies, to kill people who have an extensive history of suffering. Why is this wrong? Is every cute human face worth saving?

The lack of humanity is not in ruthlessness, but much rather in our irrational methods of pointless preservation. That didn't take paragraphs. Thoughts?

Edit - I can't wait to get more replies because this will go way beyond rhetoric, and oratory prowess. Testimonies, documents of now deceased patients, and humanists believe it or not will be unfurled in a great fucking essay. Keep your fears/moral compasses tuned into this.

VIDe
05-12-2011, 10:30 PM
Even if they aren't in need of special care. Stupid people. Not people that say stupid things. Just pure dumb bred folks. Should we focus on eliminating them? Should we give everyone a 10 year grace period to persue higher education before they can be legally put to death?


I am not speaking of schizo's, or depressives, or people with low IQ's, or people with deformities/whatever.

You're all over the place with this, aren't you? Out of curiosity, are you trying to foster discussion, or are you just looking for an audience for this upcoming (eagerly anticipated by everyone!) essay of yours? In your first post, you seem to be espousing massacring everyone in New Jersey, while in your second post, you're suddenly a bleeding heart who just wants to put people with severe mental disorders out of their misery—though there's really no way for you to know they're not actually having the time of their lives being all retarded and shit. Daily seizures might be a blast.

Anyway, in civilized societies, we generally try not to kill individuals who are unable to articulate their own thoughts on the matter. That's a slippery slope; next thing you know, some blonde men with chiseled features and stylish leather boots are shoving you into a cattle car and Nazi Mengele Nazi mustache Godwin's law blah blah blah. This idiotically presented topic isn't worth anyone's time. If your intention was to broach the subject of mercy killing in a serious way, you should have left your "edgy" persona on the sidelines from the outset.

Emma
05-13-2011, 02:07 AM
^ VIDe you hit the nail on the head there.

Shang, I'm not sure where you stand on this but you have made a series of slippery slope arguements that have been highlighted above. My suggestion is to understand your issue first, before analysing others.

Because if we start with those mentally or physically challenged, how can we then argue if another country wants to open this umbrella and include others?

The Empirical Guy
05-13-2011, 05:26 AM
You're all over the place with this, aren't you? Out of curiosity, are you trying to foster discussion, or are you just looking for an audience for this upcoming (eagerly anticipated by everyone!) essay of yours? In your first post, you seem to be espousing massacring everyone in New Jersey, while in your second post, you're suddenly a bleeding heart who just wants to put people with severe mental disorders out of their misery—though there's really no way for you to know they're not actually having the time of their lives being all retarded and shit. Daily seizures might be a blast.

Anyway, in civilized societies, we generally try not to kill individuals who are unable to articulate their own thoughts on the matter. That's a slippery slope; next thing you know, some blonde men with chiseled features and stylish leather boots are shoving you into a cattle car and Nazi Mengele Nazi mustache Godwin's law blah blah blah. This idiotically presented topic isn't worth anyone's time. If your intention was to broach the subject of mercy killing in a serious way, you should have left your "edgy" persona on the sidelines from the outset.

http://img2.moonbuggy.org/imgstore/orson-welles-clapping.gif

Shangri-LIE
05-13-2011, 06:12 AM
"Being all retarded and shit" - "Daily seziures may be a blast". "You hit the nail on the head there". Well that certainly does not add up. Seriously? Also, fuck any essay. This discussion will do. Really? Nail on the head? We'll see.

Emma
05-13-2011, 08:08 AM
Shangs I think you fail to see the point in VID3's post to which I agree - I'll highlight it.


You're all over the place with this, aren't you? Out of curiosity, are you trying to foster discussion, or are you just looking for an audience for this upcoming (eagerly anticipated by everyone!) essay of yours? In your first post, you seem to be espousing massacring everyone in New Jersey, while in your second post, you're suddenly a bleeding heart who just wants to put people with severe mental disorders out of their misery—though there's really no way for you to know they're not actually having the time of their lives being all retarded and shit. Daily seizures might be a blast.

Anyway, in civilized societies, we generally try not to kill individuals who are unable to articulate their own thoughts on the matter. That's a slippery slope; next thing you know, some blonde men with chiseled features and stylish leather boots are shoving you into a cattle car and Nazi Mengele Nazi mustache Godwin's law blah blah blah. This idiotically presented topic isn't worth anyone's time. If your intention was to broach the subject of mercy killing in a serious way, you should have left your "edgy" persona on the sidelines from the outset.

Shangri-LIE
05-13-2011, 08:29 AM
I do see it. But I saw an opportunity to actually engage in a more serious topic, which is rare for me on here. It's actually not a game. It's just going to take some getting used to for everyone else that I am just being a person here now. But I digress. I'll share more later when I have more time about this issue.

VIDe
05-13-2011, 12:36 PM
"Being all retarded and shit" - "Daily seziures may be a blast". "You hit the nail on the head there". Well that certainly does not add up. Seriously?

Come on now. Clearly, I wasn't being serious with that part. I'd think you, of all people, would have no problem recognizing a tongue-in-cheek statement. But here's my point, since I apparently have to spell it out: the quality of life that you see as being worse than death may not be quite the agonizing existence for the individuals in question that it seems to you as a "normal" person. You mentioned impaired people who "lash out because everything startled, terrified, or caused them pain" when there's no way for you to know that their external response to certain stimuli aligns with their internal experience. And again, we can't ask them, which is why it would be completely wrong to take it upon ourselves to decide that their lives aren't worth living.


Really? Nail on the head? We'll see.

Do you talk like a cartoon villain in real life, too?

Shangri-LIE
05-13-2011, 12:50 PM
Come on now. Clearly, I wasn't being serious with that part. I'd think you, of all people, would have no problem recognizing a tongue-in-cheek statement. But here's my point, since I apparently have to spell it out: the quality of life that you see as being worse than death may not be quite the agonizing existence for the individuals in question that it seems to you as a "normal" person. You mentioned impaired people who "lash out because everything startled, terrified, or caused them pain" when there's no way for you to know that their external response to certain stimuli aligns with their internal experience. And again, we can't ask them, which is why it would be completely wrong to take it upon ourselves to decide that their lives aren't worth living.



Do you talk like a cartoon villain in real life, too?

Well I am working on something in my trusty word document at the moment. I never draw up drafts for a post, but this is a first. So, you'll have to just find something to do for a while until I can put it as clearly as I possibly can. As for speaking like a cartoon villian? If that is how you think I speak then that is actually kind of awesome. But in reality I've been told that I am kind of an asshole. Right most of the time, but an asshole. Actually my therapist Dr.Flowers told me that.

Shangri-LIE
05-13-2011, 06:23 PM
Morality


Before I begin this entry, let me first call anyone who refers to morality as "doing the right thing" is an idiot. Doing "the right thing" is subjective and circulates mostly around the popular laws of sanctity. Nature is a cannible.


Let the class begin.


Morality; - In its "normative sense, morality refers directly to what is right and wrong, regardless of what specific individuals think. It could be defined as the conduct of the ideal "moral" person in a certain situation. This usage of the term is characterized by "definitive" statements such as "That act is immoral" rather than descriptive ones such as "Many believe that act is immoral." It is often challenged by moral nihilism which rejects the existence of any moral truths, and supported by moral realists, which supports the existence of moral truths. The normative usage of the term "morality" is addressed by normative ethics.


So we are terrestrials. We've grown to adopt the idea that all life is valuable. Well congratulations people. We now have the full capacity to ensure that no one will die! Wait, that doesn't seem like a competant method right there. Wait, ...are we thinking or feeling? Synapse sympathy can be such a bastard sometimes.


You can compare me to Hitler, if you're an idiot. Even Jack Kavorkian might come into mind. Not really. What makes life valuable? Hmm? Is the fact that someone, or something exists enough to be jubilant even if it is really fucking fucked up? Twitching, and non responsive, shitting iteself and and being in constant irrational fear? Well, there are some people who think so. They are the true misanthropes. People who believe in things really. People who can't see through their bullshit feelings. By the way, we are all encoded specially and sometimes nothing can change that. Except for when one special asshole comes along with an invasive inplant of truth. Truth isn't always sunshine and skittles.


Why do we put ailing animals down? We kill horses with broken legs. We kill domestic house pets with parvo. We kill people who kill other people, and if we want oil well we kill them too. So, .....wait for it .......soooooooooooo. Why not give people the right to um, having a hard time with this......um....wow.......have another person who is suffering put down? Because humans must die on their own?