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View Full Version : Alcoholism: Real illness? Or another reason to evade responsibility?



Shangri-LIE
01-06-2012, 07:35 PM
Read these two articles first before reading what I have to share, as well as before you personally espouse your feelings towards it.


http://www.baldwinresearch.com/alcoholism.cfm

http://thefoxholeatheistblog.blogspot.com/2010/04/alcoholism-is-not-disease.html

I am a person who, at an earlier age, has been through detox and rehab programs. I've occiasionally been known to go on month or even year long episodes where I drank everyday, even though these days I have everything regarding that relatively under control. However, over the years with much self examination and research, I maintain that it comes down to other factors that do not include it being a terminal illness that becomes more aggressive once you've exposed yourself to it again once quitting. Not only is total abstinence an abnormal, "swept it under the rug" method that never works, but it can be more excruciating than actually having the ability to learn new behavioral patterns.

Programs such as A.A. promotes shame, a psychology that you are powerless without God (the pharmacuetical industry), and over all atrophies ones ability to actually be in control. If anyone wants to discuss it in a collected data based fashion then proceed to do so.

The Empirical Guy
01-07-2012, 02:45 AM
I agree entirely. Alcoholism is not a disease. That's a cop out. It's like obese people who say they have a disease. No, you just had too many donuts. There are factors which can make someone more prone (genes which can make some susceptible to obesity or addictions, as outlined in the second article), but the decision to follow that and guzzle too much booze everyday is the person's own choice.

On a related note, let's touch on mental illness here, specifically 'depression'. Doctors and health care professionals will tell you depression is a disease. They tell you it's ok, you don't have to be ashamed or embarrassed, getting depression is no different to getting the flu. I know because they tried to feed me that line of horseshit, once. Then they told me I could buy these pills that would cure me. I told them where to stick their pills and their 'disease', and here's why: the whole thing is constructed to build an industry around it, be it medical or psychological (psychologists, psychiatrists, counselors etc). They say that depression is a disease that causes an imbalance of chemicals in the brain. No, you dumbass, that's not a disease, that's called an emotion. Happy, sad, angry, love, depressed, they're all just different balances of chemicals in our brain caused by different factors, and if I'm depressed or pissed off it's because something made me that way. I can buy your pills which make me happy (sounds like something I can buy at a rave) and I'll feel all better... until they wear off, and the problem is still there to make me depressed. I better give you more money to get more pills! No, keep your pills and I'll keep my cash. I'm going to go and actually work out my problems and solve them, a radical idea I know, but it will actually reach a conclusion rather than spending my life gobbling up pills to help pretend my problems don't exist (ironically, why some people take up illegal drugs or, indeed, become alcoholics. But it's ok if you're paying us to do it). I think it worked out better because problem solved, felt a lot better, didn't need any of your 'help' to do so. Depression is not a disease. It's fabricated, it's something made up and attached to a perfectly normal, healthy part of human existence to make a business out of it. Alcoholism is much the same. People drink, tell them it's a disease, tell them there's a cure, take their money and their self-worth.

Sorry to derail your thread with a bit of off topic Shangs, just thought it was the best way to make my point. Everyone should talk about alcoholics now :)

Shangri-LIE
01-07-2012, 08:16 AM
No, it's ok. You touched on something very important there. "Cop Outs". I agree with what you said 100%

Golden Eel
01-07-2012, 02:55 PM
"Alcoholism is a disease, but it's the only disease you can get yelled at for having.

"Dammit Auto, you're an alcoholic!"

"Dammit Auto, you have lupus!"

One of those doesn't sound right."

Shangri-LIE
01-07-2012, 03:09 PM
"I don't have a problem with drinking. People have a problem with my drinking"

Lucille
01-07-2012, 03:26 PM
I believe that addiction is a disease. It's a type of negative behavioural pattern based on poor self esteem and lack of coping mechanisms concerning various aspects of life (generally problematic/emotionally painful ones). Drug are merely a symptom of addiction, not the cause. You can be an addict and never have even touched drugs/alcohol. I believe all this based on personal experience and conclusions I've come to in my own life. I am an addict. I was an addict most of my life, long before I ever did drugs. I recognize the mental process involved in things such as tv addiction, internet addiction, love/person addiction, etc, as completely identical to the process involved in drug addiction. I've craved people like I've craved meth. It feels identical. I am happy to say that I've learned to curb/cut out most of my drug use. I've completely cut out abuse, and can't even imagine going on a binge again like I used to. I've been working really hard to repair my self esteem and believe in myself. I have my ups and down but I understand my issues. The worst manifestation of this problem for me has been regarding the love addiction. It's really draining to have a constant stream of completely ridiculous thoughts that you KNOW are ridiculous but you can't stop having them, even thought they really take a toll on your emotions. I'll get there though. I haven't had any professional help nor have I attended any meetings (because I don't believe in 12 step bullshit). I am however considering seeing a counselor for some fresh perspective. Anyway now I'm rambling. I think aspects of the addict thought pattern can be very beneficial if channeled properly, particularly in creative endeavors. In regard to working out the negative aspects, I think the key is self esteem, and a thorough understanding of the self (particularly when it comes to obsessive thoughts and behaviours). Learn to control your mind/emotions and you will master your self.

The Empirical Guy
01-08-2012, 05:28 AM
So you think addiction is a disease, despite everything else you've written being apparently to the contrary? A negative behavioral pattern pattern is not a 'disease', it's a personality trait. It could possibly be considered a 'disorder', but it's not a disease. It's merely a series of poor decisions which the person can change at any point. Some addictions may carry a physical element, like heroin, but again overcoming those or giving in is just another decision.

I agree with just about everything else you've said, mind, just not that first sentence and hence don't see how it relates. Your last sentence, mind, is the fucking truth.

Lucille
01-08-2012, 03:39 PM
Hmm, I see what you mean. I guess I should re-evaluate what the word disease means. In my mind it's synonymous with disorder, but I guess that's not right. In that case, what I was trying to say was that I believe addiction is a type of mental disorder.

Mugwump
07-05-2012, 06:56 PM
Yes.

Sans Agendum
07-05-2012, 07:01 PM
It's a genetic thing. Some people just don't moderate when it comes to using. Others don't have a problem at all.

FeedYourHead
07-05-2012, 07:30 PM
Definition of "disease" (http://www.merriam-webster.com/medlineplus/disease):

"An impairment of the normal state of the living animal or plant body or one of its parts that interrupts or modifies the performance of the vital functions, is typically manifested by distinguishing signs and symptoms, and is a response to environmental factors (as malnutrition, industrial hazards, or climate), to specific infective agents (as worms, bacteria, or viruses), to inherent defects of the organism (as genetic anomalies), or to combinations of these factors."

Shangri-LIE
07-05-2012, 07:40 PM
http://hamsnetwork.org/myths/

FeedYourHead
07-05-2012, 07:48 PM
http://hamsnetwork.org/myths/

tbh it would be really helpful if you'd link more reliable sources.

Shangri-LIE
07-05-2012, 07:58 PM
What do you consider reliable resources? Also, the first entree of mine contains very reliable resources. Additionally, I didn't respond with that link to counter your quotation. I just like to add articles, opinions, and studies. The first entree is where I firmly stand on the issue and is where you'll find the more reputible information.

FeedYourHead
07-05-2012, 08:02 PM
Also, the first entree of mine contains very reliable resources. Additionally, I didn't respond with that link to counter your quotation. I just like to add articles, opinions, and studies. The first entree is where I firmly stand on the issue and is where you'll find the more reputible information.

I know.

Shangri-LIE
07-05-2012, 08:20 PM
Considering that data on the internet, rehab pamphlets, dissertations on alcoholism, and the medical field altogether is pretty much an "albatross soup" if you will when it comes to defining it as a disease or not a disease, you just have to make that judgement yourself. There is no real finite scientific conclusion on "alcoholism" as to whether it is or isn't a disease. It's an ambiguous term. So as for reliable information pertaining to this subject you just have to, as said before, go with the most sound research and not look at it, (not you), through such a narrow scope.

Sans Agendum
07-05-2012, 10:56 PM
Its a mental illness then.

Shangri-LIE
07-06-2012, 06:43 AM
Its a mental illness then.

This is just my opinion but I think that it comes down to the individual really. Do whatever makes sense to you and whatever makes you feel like you are living a better more productive and healthier lifestyle. Of course drinking without moderation is going to eventually catch up to you. The same could be said about people who drink a lot of caffeine (raises hand), people who smoke/have smoked (raises hand), or even use anything that effects the central nervous system or just the body in general. Even occupational fields such as construction, being in the military, law enforcement, working with machinery etc etc...have their hazards. Something eventually is going to catch up to each and every one of us. Something is eventually going to kill us. So before I rattle on and on, I'll just state again that it is whatever makes sense to you. That applies to everyone. Believe in whatever makes you feel like a better person and live however you'd like but above all things believe in yourself. That's all you really need.

AssetReign
07-06-2012, 08:05 AM
I believe there is genetically predisposed addictive personality disorder but the individual makes a conscious decision/effort to either indulge those desires or abstain. That's where responsibility for your own behavior comes into play. If you come from a family of raging alcoholics/substance abusers, you have the choice to either heed or ignore all those red flags. If you choose not to ignore them, then you also forfeit the right to make excuses for your destructive behavior. That makes you obligated to keep your path of destruction so narrow that the only one destroyed by your behavior is you. Isolate yourself from others, as far away as possible, and then feel free to drink yourself into oblivious stupor, but leave everyone else out of it. Don't get married and, above all, don't have children.

filthytothecore
07-06-2012, 10:06 PM
It's due to social conditions as well as so called illnesses that are precribed with Amphetamine's that get children hooked at an early age to beign addicted to something, Your biggest drug dealer is the Doctors and such that you're supposed to rely one while they continue their racket of profiteering off children at an early age. It get's people addicted to a feeling of being dpoendant on soemthing, Not to mention how fucked society is in general.

Sans Agendum
07-07-2012, 10:22 AM
It's due to social conditions as well as so called illnesses that are precribed with Amphetamine's that get children hooked at an early age to beign addicted to something, Your biggest drug dealer is the Doctors and such that you're supposed to rely one while they continue their racket of profiteering off children at an early age. It get's people addicted to a feeling of being dpoendant on soemthing, Not to mention how fucked society is in general.
Yeah, a rotting liver, vomiting and blackout violence are totally overlooked for their merits in this society. People need to WAKE UP and realize the RHP just isn't for some people. Then we can have a culture where people understand the virtue and pissing yourself and screaming at traffic before passing out in public. I hear ya.

Richard III
07-07-2012, 07:26 PM
Yeah, a rotting liver, vomiting and blackout violence are totally overlooked for their merits in this society. People need to WAKE UP and realize the RHP just isn't for some people. Then we can have a culture where people understand the virtue and pissing yourself and screaming at traffic before passing out in public. I hear ya.

Have you ever kissed a girl?

Honest question...

Sans Agendum
07-07-2012, 07:28 PM
I've kissed exactly 8 different girls.

How many friends and family members have you lost contact with because of your alcoholism?

Honest question...

Cat
07-08-2012, 02:15 AM
It's due to social conditions as well as so called illnesses that are precribed with Amphetamine's that get children hooked at an early age to beign addicted to something, Your biggest drug dealer is the Doctors and such that you're supposed to rely one while they continue their racket of profiteering off children at an early age. It get's people addicted to a feeling of being dpoendant on soemthing, Not to mention how fucked society is in general.

Will you please check your spelling before you post!

- English isn't my first language..... so I know my spelling isn't perfect either, but I would like to be sure I understand your post.

If I understand your post correctly here then I agree.

Shangri-LIE
07-08-2012, 07:49 AM
If you believe in alcoholism then you are...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lab2nyC5iJ1qzpwi0o1_400.gif

^There's your holy grail fellow truth seekers. Its a squirrel holding flashcards.

brian219
07-16-2012, 07:58 AM
Alcoholism is completely real. Personally, I always thought that disease angle was a massive copout for weakminded people. However I have learned better through spiritual revelation. Some people are in fact born with a predisposition to drink or take other drugs. A person can be an "alcoholic" even if they NEVER consume a single drop of alcohol. Finding that out sure surprised me. I even found out that I am an alcoholic myself. And I don't even like alcohol. Weird.

Celebrity Killing Spree
07-17-2012, 10:06 PM
I think it's the other way around. People have a genetic predisposition to being weak minded fools, not to drinking and taking drugs.

darluh
07-17-2012, 11:35 PM
Whatever it is, it fucking sucks.

Joker
07-18-2012, 03:16 AM
Some people are in fact born with a predisposition to drink or take other drugs. A person can be an "alcoholic" even if they NEVER consume a single drop of alcohol.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsgi2ribsQ1r3pcbso1_400.gif

Cat
07-18-2012, 05:49 AM
Hmmm I'm actually a little in chaos again *Blush*

I think it can be a disease, but I also think a strong mind will be able to ''kill'' the disease!

Sooooo..... if a human has a lot of love inside and feel responsible, then that human will indeed choose love over drugs!

My point is that if you love yourself and the people you care about, then that love will make you strong, and maybe that strength can beat anything?!

Ulysses Black
07-19-2012, 08:52 AM
I think it's the other way around. People have a genetic predisposition to being weak minded fools, not to drinking and taking drugs.

I could not in anyway shape or form disagree with you any more.

Several alcoholics and drug addicts I know personally (one being my father) are the most strong-minded people I know.

My Dad drank everyday in some fashion since he was 16 in 1968, and began drinking heavily in 1975 at the age of 23. He went into treatment at the age of 37 in 1989, and as of February of this year he hasn't touched so much as a single beer in 23 + years.

So what you're saying is, is that someone who had been drinking everyday for 21 years...then went and got help and hasn't been drinking for over 23 years, is a weak-minded fool?

Someone who while drinking to the point of black-out still managed to hold down and keep two jobs at JC Penny and General Electric during the period of 1977-1980, then gets hired by General Motors in November of 1980 (his heaviest drinking was from 80-89) and never missed a day of work despite being hung over every morning so he could provide for his children and support his wife who was going through medical school and then retired from there in May of 2009 after 30 fucking years of employment, is a weak-minded fool?

Right.

Take your pure unadulterated LaVeyan Satanism elitist psychobabble nachtkabarett babalon bullshit and shove it up your weak-minded foolish ass.

Come back when you actually have an intelligent opinion.

filthytothecore
10-20-2012, 11:54 PM
I believe it is a disease It can be passed down from generation to generation, A willingness towards alcohol, and it is all effected by genetics and family history, Considering I have several cases of addiction on both sides, I'm choosing to quit While I can.

iggy
10-21-2012, 04:40 PM
Lack of self control/discipline is not an illness.

Celebrity Killing Spree
10-21-2012, 10:04 PM
I could not in anyway shape or form disagree with you any more.

Several alcoholics and drug addicts I know personally (one being my father) are the most strong-minded people I know.

My Dad drank everyday in some fashion since he was 16 in 1968, and began drinking heavily in 1975 at the age of 23. He went into treatment at the age of 37 in 1989, and as of February of this year he hasn't touched so much as a single beer in 23 + years.

So what you're saying is, is that someone who had been drinking everyday for 21 years...then went and got help and hasn't been drinking for over 23 years, is a weak-minded fool?

Someone who while drinking to the point of black-out still managed to hold down and keep two jobs at JC Penny and General Electric during the period of 1977-1980, then gets hired by General Motors in November of 1980 (his heaviest drinking was from 80-89) and never missed a day of work despite being hung over every morning so he could provide for his children and support his wife who was going through medical school and then retired from there in May of 2009 after 30 fucking years of employment, is a weak-minded fool?

Right.

Take your pure unadulterated LaVeyan Satanism elitist psychobabble nachtkabarett babalon bullshit and shove it up your weak-minded foolish ass.

Come back when you actually have an intelligent opinion.

It must have been quite hard to quit after drinking so long. You could almost say it took him finding a certain strength of mind, which given how difficult it was, wasn't in his nature.

I'm glad your father has managed to overcome and/or manage his addiction. It takes a lot of perspective and strength of character.

Maybe one of these days, in a stronger state of mind, you'll look back on all of your retard rage rants and realize how hilariously you keep proving my points.

rusty shackleford
10-22-2012, 04:16 AM
^Perhaps one day you can quit being a jackass. The latter part of your response wasn't even necessary.
It was obvious you upset someone who had a personal experience with alcoholism and you just want to stroke the flames higher with your ego? Nigga please, you don't appear intelligent doing so.

1984
10-22-2012, 06:11 AM
I seriously think I have had alcohol in my system every day this year and my life has been all the more hilarious and amusing because of it.

AssetReign
10-22-2012, 09:55 AM
If you believe in alcoholism then you are...

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lab2nyC5iJ1qzpwi0o1_400.gif

^There's your holy grail fellow truth seekers. Its a squirrel holding flashcards.


One undeniable truth is a drunk/alcoholic is only funny to him/herself.

Celebrity Killing Spree
10-22-2012, 12:53 PM
^Perhaps one day you can quit being a jackass. The latter part of your response wasn't even necessary.
It was obvious you upset someone who had a personal experience with alcoholism and you just want to stroke the flames higher with your ego? Nigga please, you don't appear intelligent doing so.

Normally I'd agree with you and wouldn't have been so curt with any other user. However, when you consider that this particular user has a self professed beef with me (based on some mysterious slight from some other forum which they apparently can't help but drag over here) which seems to have entitled them to respond to every one of my posts (prior to their evaporating from these boards completely), which weren't even directed toward them, with a blathering, ham fisted, personal attack.

If you take a look at my initial post you'll see that it essentially repeats what several others have already stated in this thread. This user singled me out above any of those others, for reasons it should be noted are NOT to counter my argument because as I pointed out their post supports it, but because they wanted to go on an ad hom tirade against me.

Which is fine, I'm more amused than wounded, but if someone wants to make something personal I'm not going to disappoint them.

I think if you compare the "Take your pure unadulterated LaVeyan Satanism elitist psychobabble nachtkabarett babalon bullshit and shove it up your weak-minded foolish ass" comment and compare it to my "Maybe one of these days, in a stronger state of mind, you'll look back on all of your retard rage rants and realize how hilariously you keep proving my points" I was being more polite than perhaps they deserve.

But anyhow, continuing on topic, since we seem to be counting bullshit anecdotal evidence, I can point out that I have a history of alcoholism in my own family. From both sides. My own father is a diagnosed alcoholic, yet I've never felt compelled to take a drink. Nor do I. And believe me it would be easier to just take a drink when someone offers me one than to explain to them over and over that I choose not to. The idea that you are born an addict loses a lot of steam if you never start in the first place. But that's not surprising because anyone who knows my father knows that his drinking problem isn't a disease of his genetics but a symptom of his not taking responsibility for anything in his life.

1984
10-22-2012, 09:09 PM
One undeniable truth is a drunk/alcoholic is only funny to him/herself.

I find other alcoholics funny?

Sixteen Saltines
10-22-2012, 09:17 PM
I don't like alcohol enough to become an alcoholic. :(

CellarOwl
10-23-2012, 11:27 AM
It's not alcoholism, it's socialism.

rusty shackleford
10-23-2012, 09:40 PM
Am I an alcoholic because I drink almost every night? I still go to work and shit and have never even been late.

AssetReign
10-23-2012, 09:44 PM
Am I an alcoholic because I drink almost every night? I still go to work and shit and have never even been late.

It depends on how much you drink, but there is what's called a "functioning alcoholic."

crazybitch
11-10-2012, 12:42 PM
I don't think alcoholism is a disease. It's a problem. True intervention should come from friends etc. AA sounds scary and the whole religious thing as well. I see Alcoholism as a behavior problem, and though "mental illness" is considered a behavioral problem, the fine line is between whether its inherent to the biological individual or something that could be addressed if attitudes were changed. The attitude of a person can change with proper inducement, but pills etc. are crutches it seems to a false disease model, where-as something like schizophrenia and bipolar which I struggle with is real, and I do NEED medication because of biological and genetic problems assumed for many years that it was passed on through something other than behavior, but possibly a biological problem yet undiscovered.

. Where-as, on the flip side....I got adhd because I wanted meds to help me focus, and that was only so the insurance company could have a reason to cover it. Whether or not I have real ADHD is kinda hard to decipher, since they gave me no tests and just handed me a bottle of stimulants. And no lie, the pills DO help amazingly. I got my license, went back to college, and then I started drinking because the stimulants made it easier to drink. So you see, the problem was my attitude and nothing biological. I stopped drinking although I can't vouch for others because alcoholism does not run in my family....

That alcoholism runs in families would make it appear genetic, but it could be more of a behavioral meme. The attitudes passed on by a father to his son and so forth would be instilled in genetic memory. Because they are finding out that there is a such thing as Genetic Memory, that our attitudes and behaviors are passed on through instinctual development, It's very complex being full of so many possibilities.

That's why choices are so important. I hope this made sense to people. I'm really trying to understand these things myself. I think it's probable that genes create memories, and that memories are carried on in DNA through families. It's kinda cool to think about, that making the right choices in your life will carry on to your children, hopefully.

loftvoker
11-10-2012, 05:27 PM
Addiction is a real illness - ffs. Too many theories from non-medical experts using anecdotal stories as some evidence. Anecdotal stories are not evidence so please stop using them.

edit: Sans Agendum pointing out gene dependency is correct.

Shangri-LIE
11-12-2012, 11:14 AM
Addiction is a real illness - ffs. Too many theories from non-medical experts using anecdotal stories as some evidence. Anecdotal stories are not evidence so please stop using them.

edit: Sans Agendum pointing out gene dependency is correct.

Nice try. Still not buying that. It's not a disease. Addiction is a behavioral problem. If it were an disease, suppose I am an alcoholic, that would mean that I would continue to drink as if under control of hypnosis and not be able to stop. It takes responsibility out of the equation. It is recognized as a primary disease primarily because it "fits the pattern" of a disease. "Alcoholism" is neither chronic or degenerative organically. It is based on impulse control, or lack thereof, and tolerance. Even with that said, it cannot be proven to be a disease, nor can it be proven to be anything more than a manageable disorder. It's the same issue with chemical imbalances. There is no evidence that supports the "chemical imbalance" theory either, yet how many people just on this site take anti-depressants?

AssetReign
11-12-2012, 11:44 AM
Alcohol is processed differently in different people and that fact alone suggests the (alcoholism) predisposition is inherited. "Alcoholism as disease" only removes personal responsibility from the equation if the person who comes from a genetically predisposed family relinquishes responsibility for their own behavior. Much like when a person who comes from a family (history) of diabetes or heart conditions ignores the warning signs and eats themselves into obesity-related diseases.
"Chemical imbalance" on the other hand hasn't been scientifically proven and was probably invented by the medical profession being in bed with the pharmaceutical companies.

crazybitch
11-12-2012, 05:26 PM
Well one example is most guys I have found who come from Cherokee or other Native American heritage do not touch alcohol, this is a genetic trait which means they are more apt to have a problem. I think they enjoy it more, it gets them drunk quicker, and yes alcohol can become a habit or addictive behavior just like smoking is actually psychological behavior more than anything else. I know because I've drank and smoked, and from experience nothing else works other than willpower and self control. The fact is that it affects them more strongly, so I wonder...I guess the thing would be if you have a true biological addiction then your body needs the chemical or thinks it does, and it would take the same willpower, but also you may need other drugs to help combat the symptoms.

Perhaps from my own experience I have not yet formed a true addiction. I just don't think the actual "Addiction" can be passed on, how would it be? WIthout a substance to be addicted to at birth, unless your mother had been doing drugs during pregnancy, you would not crave or have withdrawal from a drug until it became a habit, but some things people shouldn't touch because of addictive personalities.

A side note. Depression is very real and are other mental disorders. They are just being more well treated today than in prior times, though I do not think everyone needs a pill, there are emotional and mental problems that do seem to depend on the brain chemistry or revolve largely around it, I mean duh right? chemistry is so fundamental to how we feel, so taking a pill or whatever to take the edge off, or to actually correct something that is severely limiting someone is not wrong imo.

Shangri-LIE
11-13-2012, 06:22 AM
I don't think anyone said that depression or other mental disorders aren't real. I personally just stated that chemical imbalances are a theory and have not been proven to exist. That's why I avoid most psychiatric medications. I have been on them but I have to understand how and why before I'll let a doctor prescribe it to me.

Atom
11-13-2012, 06:36 PM
You sound like you'd still refuse to believe it or take them regardless of whether or not a doctor explained it to you. Doesn't even matter. Just by reading this thread and some of your other batshit crazy conspiracy theories it's pretty clear you should be on some sort of medication. There's actual facts backing up why alcoholism/addiction are real diseases. Same with chemical imbalances being real (for fucks sake, are you really arguing that that doesn't exist too?).

You're acting like just because something is labeled a "theory" that that means it's not backed by any facts and shouldn't be taken seriously. Can you disprove the supposed "theories" you disagree with by presenting actual facts and not anecdotal "evidence"? No? Okay then. Seriously, I can't wrap my head around the ridiculousness of the things you choose to believe in and not believe in. You're rejecting any and all evidence and arguments coming your way if it doesn't fit in with the nonsense you choose to believe.

filthytothecore
11-14-2012, 12:41 AM
I think it's harder for people with Native in them as I have good percentage something around 35% it is a real issue because on one hand you have European and other ancestry as it's part of that side of the culture you kind of feel left out, Nonetheless I'm personally been off it for some time but still crave it heavily, Not necessarily a want for it just random moments of wanting to drink it when I'm stressed and it's easily available the closest thing I can think of is when you fast for several days like a pain for it psychologically but it's necessary for the immediate well being.

Shangri-LIE
11-14-2012, 04:39 AM
You sound like you'd still refuse to believe it or take them regardless of whether or not a doctor explained it to you. Doesn't even matter. Just by reading this thread and some of your other batshit crazy conspiracy theories it's pretty clear you should be on some sort of medication. There's actual facts backing up why alcoholism/addiction are real diseases. Same with chemical imbalances being real (for fucks sake, are you really arguing that that doesn't exist too?).

You're acting like just because something is labeled a "theory" that that means it's not backed by any facts and shouldn't be taken seriously. Can you disprove the supposed "theories" you disagree with by presenting actual facts and not anecdotal "evidence"? No? Okay then. Seriously, I can't wrap my head around the ridiculousness of the things you choose to believe in and not believe in. You're rejecting any and all evidence and arguments coming your way if it doesn't fit in with the nonsense you choose to believe.

Was that directed at me? For the record, I am not bat shit crazy, I have it quit together as a matter of fact. You see what I've done over, I don't know, say the past 8-9 years is Troll the fuck out of numerous communities. Most of my theories were just made up spontaneously to rile people up and create confusion or a general annoyance. In other words, don't expect the guy (me) on the other side of the computer screen to always believe everything that he is typing. that James Holmes thing, fun wasn't it? That aside, I am not arguing that chemical imbalances do not exist, they don't. Well, there is no medical proof of chemical imbalances in the brain. Look it up. Also, I never said that addictions shouldn't be taken seriously. I don't know where you got that idea, I just said that it wasn't a disease. It fits the pattern of a disease, yes, but it is not an organic disease. It's a behavioral problem. I don't see how that comes off as radical or batshit crazy. With that said, thanks for your input and have a wonderful day here at Provider Module.

Atom
11-14-2012, 07:05 AM
Holy shit, dude... you don't see how what you're saying is "radical" or batshit crazy because you actually are fucking mental. Can you provide any sources/facts to your claim that chemical imbalances do not exist? If you're going to state something like that you'd better back it up with something.

This "trolling" thing isn't an excuse for your stupidity and some of the ridiculous shit you've posted. And yeah, totally believable that you have being crazy "quit". That doesn't sound insane at all. Your 8-9 years you've spent "trolling" communities isn't impressive. It's sad and it's irrelevant to this discussion.

Shangri-LIE
11-14-2012, 07:16 AM
I don't have to provide it. You have google, stop being lazy. This is fun. You know nothing about me. Ask anyone who has met me over the years and they will tell you that I am anything but mental. At my very worst I am sometimes annoying and somewhat direspectful, yes. Mental? Nope. There's been several from this community, not just on PM. Get the point that I don't care about anything you have to say and I am only replying to you right now to post a funny picture. If you have a problem with anything I have to say, then I have a suggestion for you.

Here's that picture...

http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m99klriPNW1rwzsbso1_500.gif

We can move on with the topic now. Toodaloo muddafucka

Atom
11-14-2012, 07:34 AM
I am moving along with the topic. You keep derailing it with stupid shit about how sane you think you are, how big of a "troll" you think you are, and what other people think of you. I do not care about any of that. You have nothing of substance to add to a thread that you started.

Provide evidence for your claims or shut the fuck up. It's not up to me to go searching for proof of your ramblings. It's up to you to present it. Otherwise we can just agree that you have no facts to back up your nonsense.

Shangri-LIE
11-14-2012, 07:57 AM
I am moving along with the topic. You keep derailing it with stupid shit about how sane you think you are, how big of a "troll" you think you are, and what other people think of you. I do not care about any of that. You have nothing of substance to add to a thread that you started.

Provide evidence for your claims or shut the fuck up. It's not up to me to go searching for proof of your ramblings. It's up to you to present it. Otherwise we can just agree that you have no facts to back up your nonsense.

Fair enough, *coughtinydickbag*. I am not the only one who has stated that nor made that observation that there is no proof that chemical imbalances exist, you do realize that, right? Moving forward, let's see... what source to offer up that you will still refute just because you want to prove that I am an insane rambler. What to post, what to post. If you aren't satisfied with these, then do your own research if you are truly curious about the subject, *coughatomicqueefbomb*. Don't ever speak with disrespect towards me again. Who do you think you are? Anyway, here are some articles to read;

http://www.cchrint.org/psychdrugdangers/TheChemicalImbalanceMyth.html
http://mental-health.families.com/blog/depression-the-myth-of-chemical-imbalance
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/04/06/frightening-story-behind-the-drug-companies-creation-of-medical-lobotomies.aspx

Expecting the expected "that isn't proof". Again, if you want to know more about it, research it for yourself.

Atom
11-14-2012, 08:10 AM
Fair enough, *coughtinydickbag*. I am not the only one who has stated that nor made that observation that there is no proof that chemical imbalances exist, you do realize that, right? Moving forward, let's see... what source to offer up that you will still refute just because you want to prove that I am an insane rambler. What to post, what to post. If you aren't satisfied with these, then do your own research if you are truly curious about the subject, *coughatomicqueefbomb*. Don't ever speak with disrespect towards me again. Who do you think you are? Anyway, here are some articles to read;

http://www.cchrint.org/psychdrugdangers/TheChemicalImbalanceMyth.html
http://mental-health.families.com/blog/depression-the-myth-of-chemical-imbalance
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2011/04/06/frightening-story-behind-the-drug-companies-creation-of-medical-lobotomies.aspx

Expecting the expected "that isn't proof". Again, if you want to know more about it, research it for yourself.

I never said that. You weren't providing proof or sources for your claims. What part of that do you not understand?

Yeah, man... those sources seem totally legit too. I mean, I guess I could understand why you'd link to the mental-health.families one. Even you don't seem to think that those are legitimate sources though. Which is why you were so defensive about posting them.

I have researched it myself, which is why I'm arguing against the nonsense you're spewing. Once again, my complaint was that you weren't providing any sources for your claims. I hope I don't have to keep repeating that. Carry on with the passive aggressiveness though. It's kind of entertaining watching you unravel so easily.

Terrapin
11-14-2012, 08:52 AM
Let's conduct a reasonable debate that doesn't resort to petty insults as part of the argument. It's not constructive to any kind of point whatsoever, and I don't want to see any more of that bullshit.

Illness or not, I honestly don't care which it is, alcoholism is worth fighting tooth and nail. Simply settling for that existence would inevitably show one's true weakness as an individual. Whichever path someone chooses to better themselves is up to them, as long as the goal is the same.

Shangri-LIE
11-14-2012, 09:34 AM
I never said that. You weren't providing proof or sources for your claims. What part of that do you not understand?

Yeah, man... those sources seem totally legit too. I mean, I guess I could understand why you'd link to the mental-health.families one. Even you don't seem to think that those are legitimate sources though. Which is why you were so defensive about posting them.

I have researched it myself, which is why I'm arguing against the nonsense you're spewing. Once again, my complaint was that you weren't providing any sources for your claims. I hope I don't have to keep repeating that. Carry on with the passive aggressiveness though. It's kind of entertaining watching you unravel so easily.

I agree with Terrapin. I have some words of wisdom for you. Shh. And passive aggressive? When I tell you to shut up, that's not passive aggressive. When I call you a tiny bag of dicks that's, not passive aggressive. Wasting your time today, however, is pretty amusing to me. I had a feeling that you'd wait for me to post some studies or theories and then discredit them. You did say that you can't discredit theories and studies so I posted some, and then you went ahead anyway and discredited them. And unravel? I don't unravel. I just constantly jab and jab and jab, then yawn and nap, then jab and jab and jab and jab. Now, where are your sources? *boop. *boop. Where's my baby boy? There he is. *boop. *boop. *tickle. lol :)

Terrapin
11-14-2012, 09:56 AM
^You're still resorting to the kind of pettiness I'm trying to extinguish. Leave it alone.

A more personal take to follow up on my last post:
My best friend since high school is a recovering alcoholic who more recently keeps falling off the wagon. In the past 3 months, I've seen him maybe four times and he was sober only the first time. Week by week he keeps jumping back onto sobriety, and then falling off again by the next week. This is a guy who checked himself into rehab back in January, and then began attending AA and doing that whole thing. So it's not like he hasn't tried, he just needs to try again. We don't talk much anymore, but when we do I don't bitch and moan at him as I figure it's best to let him figure his own shit out on his own.

Through our interactions I have come to the conclusion that my friend must strengthen his overall resolve to get better if he hopes to succeed. Listening to him talk about his problems show all the traits of the typical addicted mindset. Many of these people truly believe they are weak and powerless to this chemical when that's not really the case at all as a human. It's an incredibly pathetic state to lead yourself into believing. Alcoholism obviously creates a physiological imbalance, just like any addiction would, but it's not something so insurmountable that someone can't fight back.

Shangri-LIE
11-14-2012, 10:14 AM
^You're still resorting to the kind pettiness I'm trying to extinguish. Leave it alone.

A more personal take to follow up on my last post:
My best friend since high school is a recovering alcoholic who more recently keeps falling off the wagon. In the past 3 months, I've seen him maybe four times and he was sober only the first time. Week by week he keeps jumping back onto sobriety, and then falling off again by the next week. This is a guy who checked himself into rehab back in January, and then began attending AA and doing that whole thing. So it's not like he hasn't tried, he just needs to try again. We don't talk much anymore, but when we do I don't bitch and moan at him as I figure it's best to let him figure his own shit out on his own.

Through our interactions I have come to the conclusion that my friend must strengthen his overall resolve to get better if he hopes to succeed. Listening to him talk about his problems show all the traits of the typical addicted mindset. Many of these people truly believe they are weak and powerless to this chemical when that's not really the case at all as a human. It's an incredibly pathetic state to lead yourself into believing. Alcoholism obviously creates a physiological imbalance, just like any addiction would, but it's not something so insurmountable that someone can't fight back.

Ok. Ok.

As for the alcoholism I am sorry you've had friends with hardships. I've had similar hardships as he has and myself have been to outpatient detox centers though only for physical dependency. I never identified with any of the addicts there while waiting on my weeks supply of detox medications so that I don't have any seizures as a result of abruptly stopping after month long binge drinking. It's not healthy and I have over time wrangled it on my own without any programs, without admitting that I am an alcoholic, and without needing any real help other than physically stepping down from it when I feel like being sober for a while again. It's terribly unhealthy, I will admit that. You are right that certain types of people cannot escape their addictions and are controlled by it, but that's what I am saying, if they can learn to be in control of it instead of saying that they have no power over it, then that is real treatment. That is re-learning of behaviors/learning new behaviors. Abstinence is not the answer. I do acknowledge the word alcoholism, though not as a disease. If you ask me, I think there should be more "responsible drinking" programs than there are AA programs.

FeedYourHead
11-14-2012, 04:57 PM
That aside, I am not arguing that chemical imbalances do not exist, they don't. Well, there is no medical proof of chemical imbalances in the brain. Look it up.

Hold up. Do you still stand by that? Because it's completely incorrect and has been proven repeatedly.

Dopamine: over-production of the neurotransmitter or overly-sensitive neuroreceptors is one of the causes of schizophrenia.
Under-production or a lack of sensitivity of receptor cells in the basal ganglia to dopamine causes Parkinson's disease.
Anti-psychotic medication that blocks the receptor sites from binding to dopamine causes tardive dyskinesia in schizophrenic patients - a syndrome that mimics Parkinson's disease.
When L-Dopa (synthetic dopamine that can actually get passed the blood-brain barrier) is given to Parkinson's patients, they report visual hallucinations characteristic of schizophrenia.

There are SO many more examples. It is *possible* that a chemical imbalance in the brain is not involved in alcoholism, but it is NOT possible that chemical imbalances in the brain don't exist at all.

Shangri-LIE
11-14-2012, 05:52 PM
Hold up. Do you still stand by that? Because it's completely incorrect and has been proven repeatedly.

Dopamine: over-production of the neurotransmitter or overly-sensitive neuroreceptors is one of the causes of schizophrenia.
Under-production or a lack of sensitivity of receptor cells in the basal ganglia to dopamine causes Parkinson's disease.
Anti-psychotic medication that blocks the receptor sites from binding to dopamine causes tardive dyskinesia in schizophrenic patients - a syndrome that mimics Parkinson's disease.
When L-Dopa (synthetic dopamine that can actually get passed the blood-brain barrier) is given to Parkinson's patients, they report visual hallucinations characteristic of schizophrenia.

There are SO many more examples. It is *possible* that a chemical imbalance in the brain is not involved in alcoholism, but it is NOT possible that chemical imbalances in the brain don't exist at all.

Those are correct definitions, yes. At the same time while there exists neuroscreening and other lab tests, there is no standard on how to accurately interpret the results in any diagnostic framework. Do you see what I am saying? Edit - and how many people are diagnosed and medicated based on hypotheses?

FeedYourHead
11-14-2012, 06:29 PM
Those are correct definitions, yes. At the same time while there exists neuroscreening and other lab tests, there is no standard on how to accurately interpret the results in any diagnostic framework. Do you see what I am saying? Edit - and how many people are diagnosed and medicated based on hypotheses?

Nothing I wrote in the above post is in the "hypothesis" stage anymore, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.
"there is no standard on how to accurately interpret the results in any diagnostic framework" kind of true, mainly not. to my knowledge there isn't a definitive measurement regarding "how many __ of dopamine = normal" but there is ALWAYS a standard/norm for a baseline comparison established by many, many, MANY, previous screening experiments of control groups. if you look at an fMRI and can see which region of the brain is being activated that is not activated in any of the control group brains, that's pretty self-explanatory.

Shangri-LIE
11-14-2012, 07:05 PM
I'll concede that you schooled me. Despite everything I've read to the contrary, you work more directly in that field, so you're right. Although I was referring more to the danger that exists within psychiatry to say someone has a chemical imbalance that hasn't been tested for or even defined and then being prescribed trial after trial of different classifications of drugs. I'll admit you're right as far as what you are talking about.

FeedYourHead
11-14-2012, 07:13 PM
^ that's an important distinction though. I find it infuriating when patients and healthcare professionals both immediately assume that a psychiatric symptom is the direct result of a chemical imbalance, because the etiology is usually at least 50% environmental. And then people wonder why SSRIs don't make them happy. That is really annoying, and a pretty poor practice considering the rate of physical dependency of most psychiatric drugs (not to mention the stigma).
Basically, I'm on the same page as you with that one.

Atom
11-14-2012, 07:55 PM
I'll concede that you schooled me. Despite everything I've read to the contrary, you work more directly in that field, so you're right. Although I was referring more to the danger that exists within psychiatry to say someone has a chemical imbalance that hasn't been tested for or even defined and then being prescribed trial after trial of different classifications of drugs. I'll admit you're right as far as what you are talking about.

Well, yeah. Misdiagnosing someone as having a chemical imbalance out of laziness is obviously wrong. But you were saying that there is no such thing as chemical imbalances. You finally tried to provide proof to support your claims and were proven wrong. I find it amazing that someone could go on talking about something as if they're an expert only to admit they were wrong in one day.

Shangri-LIE
11-15-2012, 05:08 AM
Well, yeah. Misdiagnosing someone as having a chemical imbalance out of laziness is obviously wrong. But you were saying that there is no such thing as chemical imbalances. You finally tried to provide proof to support your claims and were proven wrong. I find it amazing that someone could go on talking about something as if they're an expert only to admit they were wrong in one day.

It was just a miscommunication. Maybe we would have come to the same middle ground if you hadn't started off by calling be completely batshit crazy. I wasn't totally wrong, but it was, as said, a miscommunication. Next time we should try speaking like civilized adults?

Hazekiah
11-15-2012, 06:03 AM
I think the important lesson here is that it's TEH INTRANETZ and someone out there ALWAYS knows more about the subject you're talking about than YOU do. The "miscommunication" was you talking out of your ass and someone else perhaps being overly aggressive in calling you out on it, and then you backpedaling to somehow dial that down to being a simple miscommunication. It's not even necessary to be an expert in the field, all you need is one of THESE to take issue with your posts in here:


http://steelturman.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/30/bullshit_detector_radar_blip_second.gif

How many posts back & forth did it take before the dross was finally whittled away to get down to what you were supposedly trying to say in the first place, ffs? I mean, c'mon. Say what you actually mean the first time around and make sure you know what you're talking about before even going that far, or else this same scenario is bound to pop up over and over again. Like it seems to so frequently.

If you want to implore people to talk like civilized adults instead then that's GREAT but it kinda starts at home with you NOT just jumping blindly off a cliff with your opening statements in a discussion. Neither the local subject matter expert here on the boards nor the casual onlookers had any idea where you were going with whatever you were saying but it was clear to both that you what you were ACTUALLY saying was wrong. Whether it's a simple miscommunication or just you trolling the internet again, either way you started it by plainly being in the wrong from the outset.

You're swinging the pendulum too far towards BATSHIT CRAZY and then crying foul over someone telling you it's BATSHIT CRAZY instead of attempting to wade through 5,000 posts of revisions to figure out wtf you really meant to say. Sorry, but that's not very civilized.

Annnnyway, this is retarded.

I need a fuckin' drink to deal with this shit.



http://i.imgur.com/xCndj.gif

:P

Shangri-LIE
11-15-2012, 06:27 AM
I think the important lesson here is that it's TEH INTRANETZ and someone out there ALWAYS knows more about the subject you're talking about than YOU do. The "miscommunication" was you talking out of your ass and someone else perhaps being overly aggressive in calling you out on it, and then you backpedaling to somehow dial that down to being a simple miscommunication. It's not even necessary to be an expert in the field, all you need is one of THESE to take issue with your posts in here:


http://steelturman.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/06/30/bullshit_detector_radar_blip_second.gif

How many posts back & forth did it take before the dross was finally whittled away to get down to what you were supposedly trying to say in the first place, ffs? I mean, c'mon. Say what you actually mean the first time around and make sure you know what you're talking about before even going that far, or else this same scenario is bound to pop up over and over again. Like it seems to so frequently.

If you want to implore people to talk like civilized adults instead then that's GREAT but it kinda starts at home with you NOT just jumping blindly off a cliff with your opening statements in a discussion. Neither the local subject matter expert here on the boards nor the casual onlookers had any idea where you were going with whatever you were saying but it was clear to both that you what you were ACTUALLY saying was wrong. Whether it's a simple miscommunication or just you trolling the internet again, either way you started it by plainly being in the wrong from the outset.

You're swinging the pendulum too far towards BATSHIT CRAZY and then crying foul over someone telling you it's BATSHIT CRAZY instead of attempting to wade through 5,000 posts of revisions to figure out wtf you really meant to say. Sorry, but that's not very civilized.

Annnnyway, this is retarded.

I need a fuckin' drink to deal with this shit.



http://i.imgur.com/xCndj.gif

:P

Ok, here is how it was and is. I am not the only person to make the assertion that their is no evidence for chemical imbalances. It wasn't something I pulled out of my ass, it was information that I had access to, that everyone has access to, and it is still a matter that is up for debate within the psychiatric and various other medical communities. It wasn't "my" argument. Secondly, on the internet most people can Google whatever they want to and post something as their own retained knowledge of something that they otherwise in person would not have explained off the top of their heads. The links I posted were to show exactly that. Also, it was a miscommunication because we were speaking about alcoholism and depression and then the chemical imbalance subject came up pertaining to those conditions. There is no evidence that chemical imbalances play a part in either one of them. How much money do you want to bet that your comment will hold more credibility for the simple fact that you are Haz and go to a bunch of MM shows and you "pwned" "Shangs" right there? Eh, eh? :P

Atom
11-15-2012, 08:09 AM
Haha, holy shit, guy.


Also, it was a miscommunication because we were speaking about alcoholism and depression and then the chemical imbalance subject came up pertaining to those conditions.

Uh, that's not a "miscommunication". We were clearly communicating our opinions on something and you happened to be completely wrong. Stop making excuses.




How much money do you want to bet that your comment will hold more credibility for the simple fact that you are Haz and go to a bunch of MM shows and you "pwned" "Shangs" right there? Eh, eh? :P

No. How much do you want to bet that it holds more credibility because it uses common sense and isn't denying something that has proof of actually existing in favor of some paranoid, conspiracy nonsense?

Shangri-LIE
11-15-2012, 08:15 AM
I give up, honestly. It wasn't conspiracy bullshit. It wasn't conspiracy bullshit. It...was anything but conspiracy bullshit. I was also not the only person to make the statements about chemical imbalances that were made. Quit isolating it to me.

Hazekiah
11-15-2012, 09:21 AM
Um.

No offense, but pwning you here isn't exactly some kind of MONUMENTAL feat which requires me to cash in my retirement fund of e-penis casino chips for political capital.

Here, allow me to generously prune some of the bullshit away so you can more clearly see just how little help you need to lose your own argument:


There is no evidence that supports the "chemical imbalance" theory either


I personally just stated that chemical imbalances are a theory and have not been proven to exist.


I am not arguing that chemical imbalances do not exist, they don't.


But you were saying that there is no such thing as chemical imbalances.


It was just a miscommunication.
And now that we've pruned away the extraneous bullshit, it's time for a funny picture to drive the point home:



http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UPf2bFVCgxI/UBNnkWCakuI/AAAAAAAAAA8/GJv7AdycJmI/s1600/hmmm.gif



You see what I've done over, I don't know, say the past 8-9 years is Troll the fuck out of numerous communities. Most of my theories were just made up spontaneously to rile people up and create confusion or a general annoyance.


Don't ever speak with disrespect towards me again. Who do you think you are?

-_-

Shangri-LIE
11-15-2012, 09:29 AM
You fucking people sometimes. God damn. :)

FeedYourHead
11-15-2012, 11:49 AM
You guys are my favorite.

Anyway, all you really have to do is search a database for this kind of etiological information, and by database I mean reliable source of information that does not consist of the entire world wide web and is also from the past 2-3 years (science is always changing, ya know).

Here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23134043

"more recently, however, modern advances in genotyping have resulted in widespread use of genome-wide association studies for alcohol dependence. The key findings of the earlier studies were that variations (i.e., polymorphisms) in the DNA sequences of the genes encoding alcohol dehydrogenase 1B (i.e., the ADH1B gene), aldehyde dehydrogenase 2 (i.e., the ALDH2 gene), and other alcohol-metabolizing enzymes mediate the risk for alcoholism; moreover, these polymorphisms also have an impact on the risk of alcohol-related cancers, such as esophageal cancer. In addition, a gene encoding one of the receptors for the neurotransmitter γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA) known as GABRA2 seems to have a role in the development of alcohol dependence."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23134051

"One approach to identifying the causes of alcoholism, particularly without crossing ethical boundaries in human subjects, is to look at the person's genome (and particularly at the variations that naturally arise in the DNA) to identify those variations that seem to be found more commonly in people with the disease. Some of these analyses have focused on the genes that encode subunits of the receptor for the brain chemical (i.e., neurotransmitter) γ-aminobutyric acid (GABA). Different epidemiological genetic studies have provided evidence that variations in certain GABAA receptor (GABAA-R) subunits, particularly subunits α2 and γ1, are correlated with alcohol dependence. Manipulations of these genes and their expression in mice and rats also are offering clues as to the role of specific GABAA-Rs in the molecular mechanisms underlying alcoholism and suggest possibilities for new therapeutic approaches."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22903349

"Alcohol dependence is caused by complex interactions of multiple susceptibility genes with little effect each and environmental factors. Candidate genes influence metabolism of alcohol, such as alcohol dehydrogenase and aldehyde dehydrogenase, and modulatory transmitter systems, such as the dopaminergic, serotonergic, acetylcholinergic, gamma-aminobutyric acidergic, and various neuropeptidergic systems. Dysfunctional behavioral choices, learning, and memory are involved in the etiology of alcohol dependence"

It's a typical diathesis-stress model, in that you can be genetically predisposed to alcoholism but your environment and choices play a significant role in whether or not you actually develop alcoholism. It's common knowledge at this point that alcoholism has a genetic basis, i.e. it can run in the family and be inherited. What the articles are saying is that the genetic predisposition involves issues with the genes that code for GABA receptors. GABA is an inhibitory neurotransmitter so that makes total sense. But in other words, the genetic predisposition actually IS a chemical imbalance, in that GABA production is normal but it's unable to chemically bind to receptor sites in the brain and be effective. That's not to say that this chemical imbalance CAUSES alcoholism, but it puts the person at a much greater risk for developing alcoholism than someone who lives in the same environment and does not have this genetic abnormality.

I don't think anyone was questioning this but it's worth mentioning that alcoholism itself is also a chemical imbalance. Any sort of addition-withdrawal pattern is the result of a chemical imbalance in the brain - though it is a person-inflicted imbalance, not a genetic one.

Shangri-LIE
11-16-2012, 04:35 PM
Thanks for that post. Alright, I think I am just going to man up an admit that a lot of things I had to say in this thread were out of denial and desperation to be right due to some ongoing fucked up issues. I probably won't be a part of any future discussions in here but if anyone else wants to continue on with the issue, you're more than welcome to do so. Sorry.