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R_Flagg
02-25-2012, 07:38 AM
I've seen a girl saying the MM show sucked, and then this:
Matt Gravolin ‏ @gremlinbride
I've never seen anyone play as fucked up as what Marilyn Manson was just before

What the hell? :/

The first show yesterday looked very promising for the MM fans, because his performances haven't always been stellar the past few years. That being said, I can see why for the average festival-goer it's nothing special. Many bands playing these days have a lot more energy, and looking at a Mobscene vid from yesterday he still pretty much blurred out the verses. I'm not slagging him off though, but I think nowadays what sounds great for us MM fans looks meh to someone else who has just seen Slipknot or Trivium.

pad18
02-25-2012, 08:12 AM
yeah, but slipknot and triv-whatever really suck

R_Flagg
02-25-2012, 08:18 AM
I listen to neither, but just wanted to sum up a few bands from the line-up to make my point :p

MA-86
02-25-2012, 10:52 AM
Never even thought seeing Twiggy in a dress again!! Thats just beyond cool

iggy
02-25-2012, 10:53 AM
yeah, but slipknot and triv-whatever really suck

Sure, their music sucks, but at least they can perform it properly on stage.

spaceSuicide
02-25-2012, 11:02 AM
Twiggy in a dress? Looks like the usual beige dress from the 1997 tour to me:

http://www.nachtkabarett.com/ihvh/img/twiggy_ramirez_dead_to_the_world_tour_shaven_foreh ead.jpg

Scorpion
02-25-2012, 11:10 AM
Sure, their music sucks, but at least they can perform it properly on stage.

Here we go...

Shangri-LIE
02-25-2012, 11:25 AM
I love how Twiggy plays the songs however the fuck he wants to. It sounds great, but if any other previous band member dared to do that, they'd have been microphone'd in the head.

gabrieltoxic
02-25-2012, 11:41 AM
not the same dress, this one seems to have longer sleeves.

FeedYourHead
02-25-2012, 11:47 AM
Here we go...

I think it's tough for a lot of us who were too young to see Manson in the 90s, but heard about and saw pictures of how incredible his performances were back then. We have those expectations of him because part of that is what drew us to him in the first place. We're in denial about his age because in our head, our image of him and what he's supposed to be is static. I'm in this boat, but i've seen him 3 times since EMDM, and in my opinion, although the pictures and videos seem kinda disappointing, when youre actually there and seeing it live, it doesn't even matter. It's just so fucking fantastic and impressive.
Also, Twiggy being in a dress has made me happier than anything else thus far.

NapalmHeart
02-25-2012, 11:52 AM
True. We also forget that Manson barely had any gimmicks and props in the beginning and always played for around an hour only (example: First time Manson was in Australia, the setlist consisted of 12 songs which made a 50 min. show). The shows got bigger with time and fame, and now Manson is just back to playing rock 'n' roll. That still kicks ass, and we've only seen the very beginning of the tour that isn't even the tour for the new album yet.

spaceSuicide
02-25-2012, 11:55 AM
not the same dress, this one seems to have longer sleeves.

I didn't indicate it was I just mentioned it looked like it. :p

Tigger
02-25-2012, 11:58 AM
If you look through comments on every band/every performance, you can find people claiming every band/artist sucked. Its an out door show, I'm sure some places in the crowd the sound would come out horrid even the vocals and other places it would come out amazing. I was creeping twitter hella and seen a number of people praise MM and others saying he "sucked" but upon further digging a lot of the people who blasted his performance were blasting him before they saw it too. So, was there ever a chance they were gonna like it?

:S

spaceSuicide
02-25-2012, 12:05 PM
If you look through comments on every band/every performance, you can find people claiming every band/artist sucked. Its an out door show, I'm sure some places in the crowd the sound would come out horrid even the vocals and other places it would come out amazing. I was creeping twitter hella and seen a number of people praise MM and others saying he "sucked" but upon further digging a lot of the people who blasted his performance were blasting him before they saw it too. So, was there ever a chance they were gonna like it?

:S

No there wasn't. if you don't like band you won't like or appreciate their performance anyways. I don't like Nickelback so would I like seeing them live? not likely.

Pestilence
02-25-2012, 10:12 PM
I love how sensitive the fans get when a few people say the set was horrid. What makes you think they were there to see Manson to begin with? People talk down about Manson all the time.

Tigger
02-25-2012, 10:35 PM
Exactly, like I said previously...most of the people saying MM sucked were people that were trashing him before he even came on. I wasn't there so I am not gonna praise MM and say he killed it, best ever, etc but honestly from what I read its been mostly positive and extremely positive from actual fans that were there.

=)

Cringeon
02-26-2012, 12:58 AM
I don't think MM is sticking to the same show setups as he's done in the past. I personally think it's rad to see him perform ACSS more up front, so maybe they are just going for a more raw band presentation for these shows.

Golden Eel
02-26-2012, 01:05 AM
I personally think it's rad to see him perform ACSS more up front

He needs the podium now, more than ever. He simply can't perform like he used to. Crouching, walking around looking bored, falling on his ass - he needs to realize that he isn't 25 any more. He needs to compliment his lack of energy with props or some other creative idea, instead of trying to just be a rock star.

Cringeon
02-26-2012, 01:11 AM
We disagree. I dig it, because the band sounds good, he sounds good - and I dig that kind of energy at a show. Productions are cool, but I equally enjoy a more stripped down and up front show. I've experience full stage productions/props - this is a cool chnage of pace.

thousand_kisses
02-26-2012, 01:14 AM
We disagree. I dig it, because the band sounds good, he sounds good - and I dig that kind of energy at a show. Productions are cool, but I equally enjoy a more stripped down and up front show. I've experience full stage productions/props - this is a cool chnage of pace.

totally agree!!

Golden Eel
02-26-2012, 01:18 AM
We disagree. I dig it, because the band sounds good, he sounds good - and I dig that kind of energy at a show. Productions are cool, but I equally enjoy a more stripped down and up front show. I've experience full stage productions/props - this is a cool chnage of pace.

I'm not knocking a stripped down show. I think it's pretty rad actually. I just personally don't think it's currently the best medium for 2012 Marilyn Manson. From what I've seen, he just doesn't seem to have the amount of energy required for pulling something like that off.

Either way, I'm just judging based off some shitty YouTube videos. I'll still buy a ticket if they come around this part of town.

Scorpion
02-26-2012, 05:41 AM
What the fuck happens to Manson in festivals? It was way worst than the first show. First show was amazing, I was so excited. Also, Slipknot fans can go fuck themselves with their masks and 300 bpm drums. They're such a fan of Slipknot, that they don't know Joey is a huge fan of Manson, and probably he didn't like to see that kind of thing happening, but you know... Better stop talking now. They're such crazy heads, so amazingly insane, I could get hurt.

iggy
02-26-2012, 06:28 AM
Exactly, like I said previously...most of the people saying MM sucked were people that were trashing him before he even came on. I wasn't there so I am not gonna praise MM and say he killed it, best ever, etc but honestly from what I read its been mostly positive and extremely positive from actual fans that were there.

=)



So...unless they're a megafan who's already licking Manson's crack, they're opinion is invalid?

Because most of what I've read has said he was boring, sluggish, cracked unfunny jokes, and slurred his way through songs he's been performing for over a decade. My favorite one was where someone on Twitter said "Marilyn Manson was awesome! They should fire the singer, he sucks!"

gabrieltoxic
02-26-2012, 07:37 AM
Fred is the most natural member of Marilyn Manson since Twiggy joined, left, re-joined, and became Jesus.

I don't think we do this anymore, but QFT. ;) And one of the best lines you have ever posted, S.D.

Nice to see good AND bad reviews... it kinda gives it a balanced outlook for me, since the band rarely hits my neck of the woods (last time was 2007).

Twiggy seems to be back, and it's not just the dress. The attitude, the chemistry with Fred... And Manson interacting a bit more with the drummer is pretty cool too (and not bashing him with a mic-stand :P)
We could argue for decades about Manson's performance... I think it's kinda pointless at this point. From a technical point of view, he was never a reliable singer on-stage. He had good nights, and had shit nights. The whole slipping on-stage and hurting his side (or breaking some ribs even) must have really fucked things up for him. To me it's obvious, but I guess it's worth mentioning: your rib-cage is quite an important part of singing/screaming. You know, beacuse you gotta breathe a little different than when you talk.

Anyway, I just wanted to express a bit of what I'm seeing on videos. Just adding my two cents, I guess.

Oh, and as far as the keyboard player thing... All I have to say is that IN MY OPINION, this would be a great time to add a second guitar live. Just saying... Like The Empirical Guy said up there, they've been running tape on live shows since forever, so... you know. They're just running a few more pre-recorded elements now. Seems much better to do that, as opposed to having a keyboardist acting like he's playing.

spaceSuicide
02-26-2012, 09:35 AM
After viewing some videos and hearing some (semi-decent) recordings I wouldn't say he was horrid but this show was very sub-par and missed the mark of magnificence. It's a disappointment to hear of his performance and viewing some videos but I'm sure the incessant chanting for Slipknot during the better end of the show flustered and and got his attention out of focus. That turned the show for the worse. This show reminds me of the crap-churned out shows he gave out early in 2009.

AlcoholicArtist
02-26-2012, 11:12 AM
I could be wrong but it seems apparent to me that he drinks before shows and events to dilute his inhibitions (he’s said himself that he’s a shy man) which is exacerbated at festivals because of the larger crowd and fan bases that may not be as supportive towards him.

Either that or he thinks "Well at least if I'm drunk they can blame my shitty performances on the alcohol".
Whatever the reason it needs addressing, I'll repeat what's been said that people are paying for a performance and from the videos that I've seen from this show he's not delivering. In fact I'd go as far to say that his behaviour is downright disrespectful to the audience.

I'll certainly buy Born Villain and any future records but my money's staying in my pocket as far as live shows are concerned.

Scorpion
02-26-2012, 11:44 AM
I'll certainly buy Born Villain and any future records but my money's staying in my pocket as far as live shows are concerned.

You know, all of this might be true. But when you grow up listening to someone, and you want to see him for like...5 or 6 years, it's kinda annoying to read that kind of comments. People like me would give a kidney to see him with 60 years old, in a wheelchair, drinking absinthe, singing Speed of Pain while coughing. It's not because I have lot of money. It's not because I don't value my money. It's because what that man represents to me. The only reason why you say that, it's because you probably have already seen him.
Is he drunk? Yes.
Is he doped? Yes.
Does he give a shit about us? Yes, he does. In his way. It's not because he's drunk and fat, that he doesn't care about us. You see, he's a damaged person. He obviously is. He does what he thinks is the best. Is it because of the money? I don't think so. It's great and etc, but I don't think so. I think that's for him, and in second, to us.
Last question:
Is he still Marilyn Manson? YES. That's why I'd see him at ANY moment if I could do anything for that to happen.

The reason why I'm saying that is because I want you guys to value what you guys have right in your hands. I mean, every tour he's in England, US, Germany, etc. But he came to Brazil twice. First time, I was 3 years old. Second, I was starting to downloading his cds (now I own most of them, and couple shirts, mousepads, etc). So, what do you think? I wouldn't like to see a Dead To The World Manson? Hell, sure I do. But just the fact that I could see him on stage, is already a dream coming true. I know you guys think he's just making money of it, and doesn't care to anyone of us. You don't know that. Neither do I. But from what I heard of his mouth, from what I've seen, he doesn't seem like a person who doesn't care about his fans.

Basically, I doubt he's coming to South America this tour, so I almost died when seeing people screaming when he first came on stage, 02/24. You know? ''I'll never have that feeling. I'll never meet that man.'' And you guys can have it, but don't want. Oh well, sorry for the long text. I just wanted to let you know how terrible it is to want something you'll probably never have, and if you have it, you could at least appreciate. If you think there's nothing to appreciate, then fine, i'm sorry again. Each one has an opinion.

AlcoholicArtist
02-26-2012, 11:54 AM
I understand Scorpion and no I've never seen him live but I would have loved to pre 2007, whether I like it or not whatever Manson does I'll still always find myself obsessed with him. I'm uninterested with his performance and visuals in the shows at the moment but I hope that will change in the future.

Tigger
02-26-2012, 12:06 PM
So...unless they're a megafan who's already licking Manson's crack, they're opinion is invalid?


No, not at all. But when people are making comments before he comes on of "why is Mason here? He is such a loser! Not shocking anymore" etc do you really honestly think they are gonna like anything the man or band does? Again, I am not jumping in defense of MM and saying he is the best he's ever been or anything. I'm just saying a lot of the people crying the most negativity are people that never were fans and no matter what never will be and never would dare give Manson a fair chance. Other than the length, I saw very little negativity stemming from the sidewave show. Extremely positive reviews there. Besides, from the shit quality videos its easy to see Manson is in better form now than the beginning of last tour.

=)

R_Flagg
02-26-2012, 12:42 PM
He just needs to re-invent his shows somewhat. He obviously isn't in the same mindset anymore than back in 1997, so it's understandable you can't sing those songs with the same oomph. After singing Disposable Teens for the 1000th time, it's pretty normal it starts to feel like a job. He just needs to convince me he's actually having fun with this, cause I'm really not sure. I don't know about this tour yet, but what struck me in previous tours is that he ALWAYS did the same moves, like the fist shaking during Teens etc. And that really looks like he's just doing a routine. And at that point it doesn't really matter if it sounds good or not.

petticoat
02-26-2012, 12:55 PM
People like me would give a kidney to see him with 60 years old, in a wheelchair, drinking absinthe, singing Speed of Pain while coughing. It's not because I have lot of money. It's not because I don't value my money. It's because what that man represents to me.

Scorpion, I'm with you, man. Totally. And I think a lot of other people are as well, it's just that we're the quiet, sensitive ones. Well, usually. Ok, maybe not usually. :) And also there's the people who are less plugged in electronically that we don't hear from.

And remember, there's still more tour dates to come (I think).

If I've learned nothing else about Marilyn Manson/Brian Warner, it's the importance of being yourself (earnest, or not), no matter how in flux one is, in fact, it's important to stay in flux. And not to believe everything at face value. These things and more, are why I can look past certain aspects of his personality that may be asshole-ish. Hell knows I do that with my lovers and friends already. Per people viewing him as acting immaturely, they don't realize that part of being a poet is to be a child forever. "I can never be a man." --MM <---some people can't accept this or even begin to wrap their heads around it. Let it roll off. You'll be glad you did. *pinky swearz*

Enigma
02-26-2012, 01:33 PM
Scorpion, I'm with you, man. Totally. And I think a lot of other people are as well, it's just that we're the quiet, sensitive ones. Well, usually. Ok, maybe not usually. :) And also there's the people who are less plugged in electronically that we don't hear from.

I used to agree with you, but now I'm certainly confused. Sure I'll keep buying his albums, he's Manson and he will always be, but as far as going to his live shows, I'm not convinced. I've seen him two times and one of my dreams was seeing the person that changed my life (for good, of course). His second show was, in my opinion, better than the first one, but as some say, it still felt like he was just doing his job. He doesn't has the energy he used to have, and I understand a 40 year old man is not the same as a 20 year old one, but anyways, there's a lot of artists who have become older and older and they never cease to amaze me live. They have to change the formula, because they get old, that's normal and I accept it, but there is a difference between becoming old and not having the physical power to do certain things and becoming old and tired of your own music and live show. And to me, the second option is the case.

Like Shangri-Lie said, I won't throw shit to him because he deserves all my respect, but somehow we have to show him we are not happy about what he's doing. His live shows aren't good, we all know that. The band is amazing, but he is not, and HE is Marilyn Manson, so he should be the one who delievers the power to the crowd, not some new bassist. He can be a child forever, he's always been and I love him for being it, but he looks like a tired man trying to be a child. He's speeches now are ridiculous compared to what he used to say. I'm not mad at him, I just thing such a brilliant mind is wasting his talent, and is doing it for too long. I can't be hoping every year he'll fix that things for the next tour, the time is NOW and he's the only one who can change what he's become. He was a hell of a rocker, why do we have to excuse him with everything he does? He doesn't owe me nothing, he doesn't have to change if he doesn't want to, is his life and he can do whatever he wants. But I also can decide I won't go to any of his shows, and it saddens me to think I'm becoming tired of this nver-ending story.

petticoat
02-26-2012, 01:58 PM
Maybe we're all wasting our talents. (projection)

Maybe he wants to be awake for his own funeral. Maybe he's past caring. (dark thoughts, but yeah, speculation.)

Maybe with Born Villain, he'll say things that need saying, things we haven't even thought of yet. Maybe he won't. Just the title "No Reason" screams nihilism. Sometimes I think maybe he's now so past anything we can know that certain connections aren't being made. Maybe being silly about drugs is in fun.

From what I've seen, he sounds and looks quite good to me. I've seen no evidence of slurring and such in any of the videos. I'm not sure what it is that people want...but perhaps we could all do with more patience and less jumping the gun.

DrClitoris
02-26-2012, 02:59 PM
You know, all of this might be true. But when you grow up listening to someone, and you want to see him for like...5 or 6 years, it's kinda annoying to read that kind of comments. People like me would give a kidney to see him with 60 years old, in a wheelchair, drinking absinthe, singing Speed of Pain while coughing. It's not because I have lot of money. It's not because I don't value my money. It's because what that man represents to me. The only reason why you say that, it's because you probably have already seen him.
Is he drunk? Yes.
Is he doped? Yes.
Does he give a shit about us? Yes, he does. In his way. It's not because he's drunk and fat, that he doesn't care about us. You see, he's a damaged person. He obviously is. He does what he thinks is the best. Is it because of the money? I don't think so. It's great and etc, but I don't think so. I think that's for him, and in second, to us.
Last question:
Is he still Marilyn Manson? YES. That's why I'd see him at ANY moment if I could do anything for that to happen.

The reason why I'm saying that is because I want you guys to value what you guys have right in your hands. I mean, every tour he's in England, US, Germany, etc. But he came to Brazil twice. First time, I was 3 years old. Second, I was starting to downloading his cds (now I own most of them, and couple shirts, mousepads, etc). So, what do you think? I wouldn't like to see a Dead To The World Manson? Hell, sure I do. But just the fact that I could see him on stage, is already a dream coming true. I know you guys think he's just making money of it, and doesn't care to anyone of us. You don't know that. Neither do I. But from what I heard of his mouth, from what I've seen, he doesn't seem like a person who doesn't care about his fans.

Basically, I doubt he's coming to South America this tour, so I almost died when seeing people screaming when he first came on stage, 02/24. You know? ''I'll never have that feeling. I'll never meet that man.'' And you guys can have it, but don't want. Oh well, sorry for the long text. I just wanted to let you know how terrible it is to want something you'll probably never have, and if you have it, you could at least appreciate. If you think there's nothing to appreciate, then fine, i'm sorry again. Each one has an opinion.

I know how you feel, I'm from Croatia and he was in my country only once, when I was 11 and only a year before I discovered him, and for me too it would be a dream come true just to see him. What I want to say is, I understand you completely and agree with everything you said.

Lucille
02-26-2012, 03:59 PM
Ugh. I'm trying hard not to become all negative on Manson again, especially since I've finally been really excited for new Manson stuff for the first time in forever. I was led to believe that he's finally gone through some much needed change and found himself again, but honestly...everything I'm reading here and seeing from these last few shows, it just makes me feel like it was all a lie. So far it all seems like just some continuation of the bullshit that was THEOL tour. I don't get how anyone can talk about embracing his "new" stripped down show. What was THEOL tour if not stripped down? All I remember from that show was a bloated Manson spitting out beer and laying around (a dramatic change from only a year prior when Twiggy just came back, and Manson had an insurmountable amount of energy and passion onstage). I was really hoping, what with the way he was talking in those interviews, that shit was gonna be crazy and exciting/entertaining again. I still hope it will be, but if these shows are anything to go on, I doubt it. If he wants to put on a stripped down show, then he needs to get his ass in gear and sober up. He also needs to hire a personal trainer and hit the gym. Because you need to have energy and stamina to put on a show like that. Stripped down shows can be great, but the performer has to emotionally move you and really put it all into the performance. Also enough with the excuses. Just because he's in his early 40s doesn't mean he has to be fat and out of energy. There are PLENTY of people who still got it at that age, and everyone can have it at that age if they just take care of their body and exercise/build stamina and muscle. I fucking love Marilyn Manson, but I'm also able to recognize the elements of a good performance and he's really been lacking it lately. He needs to figure out a way to get excited about his show again and thrill the audience. He was a brilliant fucking showman, and that has to be still in there somewhere. :(

AssetReign
02-26-2012, 04:17 PM
I've read some "reviews" here and there from alleged concert-goers claiming he was slurring, couldn't remember lyrics, got booed off the stage, etc., and then I've read many reviews from concert-goers that are the direct opposite. I've watched several videos and have yet to see any evidence of the "drunken mess who can't sing for shite" some people are claiming. This is all quite confusing.

Tigger
02-26-2012, 04:39 PM
I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle, I'd love to hear some high quality good vids of this tour but from the little I have seen its been pretty good. I didn't hear any slurring or someone who was too drunk/high to do anything.

AssetReign
02-26-2012, 04:58 PM
>Tigger>>I agree about the truth lying somewhere in the middle. It reminds me of the elephant and the blind men parable.
I heard from someone who was at last night's concert that he was great, so who the hell knows.

Scorpion
02-26-2012, 05:15 PM
I've read on youtube comments that he wasn't booed, but the Slipknot chants did happen when he walked off stage (before coming back to sing TBP). Well, i'm not saying he wasn't booed, but if he was, only a really small portion of the crowd did it. If not, many people would've heard, and I've seen few. I've read also people saying ''he sucked balls, but he didn't get booed, not really''. So I'm digging that.

AssetReign
02-26-2012, 05:29 PM
When I say, "last night," I'm referring to Sydney (Olympic Park.) From what I was told by someone who was there (very close to the stage) he was good, so it seems like Tigger is correct in the observation that the truth lies somewhere in the middle.

arkahno
02-26-2012, 06:01 PM
I don't know, I saw all and every videos from the past 3 shows and it seems really good to me. He doesn't seem drunk or lack or energy at all, at least to me he sounds good and looks really into the show.
the only negative comment I have is that they really need to put some stage effects on the show. We are inn the 2012 now, they need to use the current tecnology in the shows.

The Empirical Guy
02-26-2012, 06:45 PM
Oh, and as far as the keyboard player thing... All I have to say is that IN MY OPINION, this would be a great time to add a second guitar live. Just saying... Like The Empirical Guy said up there, they've been running tape on live shows since forever, so... you know. They're just running a few more pre-recorded elements now. Seems much better to do that, as opposed to having a keyboardist acting like he's playing.

They actually had a second guitar running from the backing at some points. In Personal Jesus, the main riff was coming from the backing and Twiggy was playing chords over the top.


You know, all of this might be true. But when you grow up listening to someone, and you want to see him for like...5 or 6 years, it's kinda annoying to read that kind of comments. People like me would give a kidney to see him with 60 years old, in a wheelchair, drinking absinthe, singing Speed of Pain while coughing. It's not because I have lot of money. It's not because I don't value my money. It's because what that man represents to me. The only reason why you say that, it's because you probably have already seen him.
Is he drunk? Yes.
Is he doped? Yes.
Does he give a shit about us? Yes, he does. In his way. It's not because he's drunk and fat, that he doesn't care about us. You see, he's a damaged person. He obviously is. He does what he thinks is the best. Is it because of the money? I don't think so. It's great and etc, but I don't think so. I think that's for him, and in second, to us.
Last question:
Is he still Marilyn Manson? YES. That's why I'd see him at ANY moment if I could do anything for that to happen.

The reason why I'm saying that is because I want you guys to value what you guys have right in your hands. I mean, every tour he's in England, US, Germany, etc. But he came to Brazil twice. First time, I was 3 years old. Second, I was starting to downloading his cds (now I own most of them, and couple shirts, mousepads, etc). So, what do you think? I wouldn't like to see a Dead To The World Manson? Hell, sure I do. But just the fact that I could see him on stage, is already a dream coming true. I know you guys think he's just making money of it, and doesn't care to anyone of us. You don't know that. Neither do I. But from what I heard of his mouth, from what I've seen, he doesn't seem like a person who doesn't care about his fans.

Basically, I doubt he's coming to South America this tour, so I almost died when seeing people screaming when he first came on stage, 02/24. You know? ''I'll never have that feeling. I'll never meet that man.'' And you guys can have it, but don't want. Oh well, sorry for the long text. I just wanted to let you know how terrible it is to want something you'll probably never have, and if you have it, you could at least appreciate. If you think there's nothing to appreciate, then fine, i'm sorry again. Each one has an opinion.

Well said. I think the understanding of this fact is what separates the two fields of thought here. Everyone complains that he's drunk on stage, and that he wasn't what he was 15 years ago. What he was 15 years ago was high on cocaine on stage. Are we saying it's ok for him to be affected by some substances, but not others? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? So if he snorts the powder and cuts himself on stage that's cool, but if he has a drink (surely something far more of us here have done than cocaine) and slips onstage or forgets some words, he's terrible for it and needs to get cleaned up?

I'm sorry, but that just sounds like a crowd of vultures that Manson could have written a song about.

BTW this isn't directed at you, I'm just going with the thought here ;)

Manson is, as you say, a damaged person. He's fucked up emotionally. He's gone in to very dark places and maybe he hasn't quite come back the same. I am sure, though, that he's not in this for the money. He doesn't make the money he once did. He lives in an apartment above a liquor store. He went to a small independent label so he could have more artistic freedom. He goes out on stage and does what he does because he is an artist but, undeniably, he is not the same artist he once was.

For people complaining about his performance and direction now, I challenge any of them to do with the same passion at 40 their artistic endeavors at 20. People change, our minds and brain chemistry change as we get older, he is not the same angry, pissed off at society 25 year old he once was. He is now the Born Villain. You don't have to like the Born Villain, but you can't complain about it, because it's completely fucking honest, I'm sure. I can tell you now I would rather have that than a fake attempt at being something he no longer is.


I love all these jackets he's got with the Double Cross on the back, I think there's 2 so far I've seen and think I saw another with a small double cross on the front too, probably in a video.

http://musicfeeds.com.au/wp-content/gallery/fa2fc8743c84fb1c6be067ca52e26650/a52cfe6e78e17228cca55ccabcb5007e.jpg
http://musicfeeds.com.au/photos/marilyn-manson-soundwave-2012-sydney-26022012/

Sutter also had a double-cross painted on to his arm with makeup. I like that they're still using the symbol so much.

Filth
02-26-2012, 08:47 PM
Ultimately, it comes down to the vocals for me. I would have no problem with his current sluggish, tired stage presence if his vocals were still great. Sadly, they're not. His screams are still alright, but I'm getting tired of the "moaning" style he's been using for years. It just reeks of him being tired and unenthusiastic.

It's great to see that Twiggy has turned into more of a showman than the previous tour. I'm sure it has to do with him being more confident playing live guitar now.

Shangri-LIE
02-26-2012, 09:08 PM
Ok, fuck it, I concede. Let's all concede. It's going to be a great tour. Manson is Manson so let's let him be Manson. Everyone listens for their own reason. Rock is Undead. Go Manson.

Heather Quick
02-26-2012, 09:15 PM
You know, all of this might be true. But when you grow up listening to someone, and you want to see him for like...5 or 6 years, it's kinda annoying to read that kind of comments. People like me would give a kidney to see him with 60 years old, in a wheelchair, drinking absinthe, singing Speed of Pain while coughing. It's not because I have lot of money. It's not because I don't value my money. It's because what that man represents to me. The only reason why you say that, it's because you probably have already seen him.
Is he drunk? Yes.
Is he doped? Yes.
Does he give a shit about us? Yes, he does. In his way. It's not because he's drunk and fat, that he doesn't care about us. You see, he's a damaged person. He obviously is. He does what he thinks is the best. Is it because of the money? I don't think so. It's great and etc, but I don't think so. I think that's for him, and in second, to us.
Last question:
Is he still Marilyn Manson? YES. That's why I'd see him at ANY moment if I could do anything for that to happen.

The reason why I'm saying that is because I want you guys to value what you guys have right in your hands. I mean, every tour he's in England, US, Germany, etc. But he came to Brazil twice. First time, I was 3 years old. Second, I was starting to downloading his cds (now I own most of them, and couple shirts, mousepads, etc). So, what do you think? I wouldn't like to see a Dead To The World Manson? Hell, sure I do. But just the fact that I could see him on stage, is already a dream coming true. I know you guys think he's just making money of it, and doesn't care to anyone of us. You don't know that. Neither do I. But from what I heard of his mouth, from what I've seen, he doesn't seem like a person who doesn't care about his fans.

Basically, I doubt he's coming to South America this tour, so I almost died when seeing people screaming when he first came on stage, 02/24. You know? ''I'll never have that feeling. I'll never meet that man.'' And you guys can have it, but don't want. Oh well, sorry for the long text. I just wanted to let you know how terrible it is to want something you'll probably never have, and if you have it, you could at least appreciate. If you think there's nothing to appreciate, then fine, i'm sorry again. Each one has an opinion.

Sorry to quote the long text, but that's true. Sure, I saw him when he played in Brazil in 2007 and it was one of the best days of my life, but it's not enough, you know? Most of you guys don't know how HORRIBLE and SAD is to see dates and dates popping up and it's always Europe, USA (of course), Asia etc and the only thing you can do is waiting. Patiently. And then we don't get any single date. And then we see people talking shit about the man after the show or saying "Oh, it's a two-hour drive. I won't go" while you're in your house, watching shitty videos on Youtube. It's tough, man, it's fucking tough.

So, as Scorpion said: Enjoy the concert. Enjoy seeing Marilyn fucking Manson on stage even if he's drunk or fucked up, because I know how priceless is.

Enigma
02-27-2012, 04:00 AM
Well said. I think the understanding of this fact is what separates the two fields of thought here. Everyone complains that he's drunk on stage, and that he wasn't what he was 15 years ago. What he was 15 years ago was high on cocaine on stage. Are we saying it's ok for him to be affected by some substances, but not others? Isn't that a bit hypocritical? So if he snorts the powder and cuts himself on stage that's cool, but if he has a drink (surely something far more of us here have done than cocaine) and slips onstage or forgets some words, he's terrible for it and needs to get cleaned up?

I'm sorry, but that just sounds like a crowd of vultures that Manson could have written a song about.

Then I must be a fucking vulture. 15 ears ago he made a hell of a show, I don't care if he was high on cocaine or not, like I woulnd't care now that he seems to be an alcoholic if that didn't affect his stage presence. I want him to be fine, to be creative and to be honest, but if that goes along with a shitty show where he can't even move because he's so fucked up that doesn't even know where he is, shame on him. People are paying to see him and he does nothing, just routine. I never thought it was cool that he cut himself onstage, I always thought it was an extreme way to show and express the pain he had inside, I don't want him to do that again. I just want him to rock out, and I think the ones who really care about him want him to be in a situation where he can be perfectly conscious of what he's doing. Maybe he was a junkie before, but his mind was pure gold, so his persona was fine and I didn't worry. Now it has changed, his mind is suffering because of the abuse and he should stop it. First of all to save himself, and then and later, to please his fans. I reapeat it, I love this man, I love Marilyn Fucking Manson. And that's why I say, come on dude, you're a monster, don't fall that hard.

AppleOfSodom
02-27-2012, 06:12 AM
I just want him to rock out, and I think the ones who really care about him want him to be in a situation where he can be perfectly conscious of what he's doing. Maybe he was a junkie before, but his mind was pure gold, so his persona was fine and I didn't worry. Now it has changed, his mind is suffering because of the abuse and he should stop it. First of all to save himself, and then and later, to please his fans. I reapeat it, I love this man, I love Marilyn Fucking Manson. And that's why I say, come on dude, you're a monster, don't fall that hard.

you're a sweet :)
I do see where you're coming from. Manson himself talked several times about it you know. About the difference between taking drugs but being in control or loosing it and letting yourself being controled by them. A lot of things happened in between and people shouldn't be judges because they can't walk on someone else's shoes, but the honest love of the fanbase should be taken as what it is, pure love and dedication. There is a huge difference between using drugs to creative or fun/experimentation purposes and to use them as inevitable escapes. Alot of bad things (alot of them loving-related ones) came and Manson suffered alot i guess. The whole GAOTG era, for instance, was a paralel reality he created to drible pain, the way I see it, and just endelessly embrace freedom and creativity like children do in a way, his own world, simultaneously pure, creative, hedonistic and dangerous. His longtime best friend had left too and he was the more and more by himself. A lot of abuse came with it because it was inherent to the process. Afterwards, a series of new episodes happened that didn't help, alot of disappointments, both love-related and artistic ones... Manson is a very passionate individual, he seems to like living each day like it was the last and the same goes with the heart. I remember Missy saying something in the line of if a small detail bothered him, he would think about it for hours, days, weeks and months. He seems to be a person who's capable of doing everything for the ones and things that he cares, but also respond with the same passion to what affects him negatively.The size of his depression seemed to be proporcional to the size of his comitment to life, caring emotions, art and friendship. Now his best friend is back and his music is climbing the mountain again. He can be certain that he'll always have truthfull and genuine support from me. It's my retribution to all of the amazing things his art has done for me in the past. I would never leave just because of the lack of covers on the magazines or because of a couple of poorer live shows. His importance to me it's on another level. So this is me sharing your love and ciber-sending it to him. I was very pleased with the first shows, even considering the lack of the elements i already pointed out and I'm sure this tour will kick ass. Marilyn, your family is here so kick those motherfucking dirty asses with your amazing rock man :)

TheTeletubbieFlasher
02-27-2012, 11:05 AM
I feel if you can solve alcoholism you should write a book about it~! Anyone can give advice, but few can live it. No matter how many people hash and rehash Manson's life, were back to the beginning. Thank you for caring, but you can't change someone you don't know! Even those whom know him, can not change him. Change is done only if that person desires it! It easy to speak but it is another to act.

any-who! This last performance has surely been his best thus far!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmjcV2K_wIc

M Tragedy666
02-28-2012, 11:45 AM
I just wanted to make two very quick statements:

1. I'm not commenting on my personal opinion of current, or past shows of Manson. However, I've noticed some people frequently make excuses for bands (in general, not even limited to Manson) because of their age or whatever. They say something like, "well, he/she's older now...can't quite sing as good...it's understandable that the energy isnt the same..etc..." I just want to say BULLSHIT. There are plenty of examples of bands that are getting older that are crazier and even more energetic now than they were when they were young.

I don't think anyone would argue that Rob Zombie is a great example of this. The guy is about 47 years old, and his last couple of tours have been EPIC. Ya know, I think his voice somehow sounds better now than it did when he was super young in White Zombie. If you have the White Zombie box set and hear the really early recordings, in my opinion, his voice kind of sucked. Maybe he was trying to find his voice, and it of course was not done in the best studios...cheap equipment and all that. But even in the Astro-Creep days...the 1995/1996 White Zombie era...if you have seen video's, it was NOTHING in comparison to the energy, the show, the whole thing that Rob puts on now.

Motley Crue is the same way. Vince Neil's voice is no where near as good as it was in the 80s, but they sure as hell now how to put on a great show.

Alice Cooper is another one.

Point is, 43 is NOT that old. There are plenty of bands with a shit ton of energy that are older than that. In there 50s, even. Hell, I saw Twisted Sister on their Xmas tour a few years back...it was amazing. Dee Snider even had throat surgery, but he sounds just as good as his prime in 1984. And they have a bigger show now than ever before.

I could understand if Ozzy gets tired or doesnt do a lot. The guy is in his 60's. You don't want to have a fucking heart attack. But even he is still mesmerizing to watch.


2. Some people seem to think that Manson is uniterested/bored these days because of the lack of a stage show. I beg to differ. If anything, I feel like he is having the MOST fun with it these days. He's laid back, cracks jokes, and seems like he's having a great time with it for a change... Now, I'm sure he has ALWAYS had fun doing it...otherwise, he would have quit a long time ago, or never even started to begin with. BUT, there was a goal in the begining to break into the mainstream and he had a message. It was so calculated and serious.... A lot of props to worry about and things to stress over. He was a business man. He wanted to impress/shock/do whatever it took to make the world know his name.

I know he's been saying in recent interviews that he never takes for granted that he might be playing to new people, but it doesnt seem like it. He seems really chilled and like he's finally going out and just having fun for a change instead of trying to be the serious guy that starts controversy. He knows he made it big, and maybe doesnt care as much about going all out on stage show.

I would love to see a big stage show again ala Grotesk Burlesk. But I do love his currently shows. I think his voice is fine. And his energy is fine.

That is all.

TheTeletubbieFlasher
02-28-2012, 01:03 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYY2VRD0Az0&feature=related

BRASS KNUCKLE MICROPHONE. :D

petticoat
02-29-2012, 05:50 PM
I feel if you can solve alcoholism you should write a book about it~! Anyone can give advice, but few can live it. No matter how many people hash and rehash Manson's life, were back to the beginning. Thank you for caring, but you can't change someone you don't know! Even those whom know him, can not change him. Change is done only if that person desires it! It easy to speak but it is another to act.

any-who! This last performance has surely been his best thus far!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmjcV2K_wIc


@Flasher ~ thank you for putting up this video. I watched it last night and actually teared up. I was like, "Why my eyes doth sting?" Sorta ridiculous, but I was moved viscerally. It's not really unusual, but thought it'd add to what I really mean by "thanks for putting up this video" :)

Imail724
02-29-2012, 06:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lYY2VRD0Az0&feature=related

BRASS KNUCKLE MICROPHONE. :DI just don't understand why it's so hard for him to whisper the verses like the original song? It just doesn't sound right when he talks it. Liked his little impromptu titstitstitstitstits line though.

Filth
03-02-2012, 09:07 PM
I agree with some others around here who say that this tour sounds & looks better than the last few. I guess all I can base that off of is shitty youtube videos and still images, which can never replace the experience of actually being there, but from that limited information it looks like things have improved somewhat. I like the stripped down show, and Manson seems to be regaining a little of his menacing swagger that seemed gone in recent years.

When NIN did their last tour(s) without a dedicated keyboard player, it seemed weird. With MM, it doesn't seem like it's a big deal. Of course I would rather have Pogo back there on his keyboard stand because he was awesome, but from the looks of these recent videos it doesn't seem like there's a lacking presence like there was with NIN.

TheTeletubbieFlasher
03-03-2012, 08:23 AM
@petticoat *huggles* Check out this one is pretty Good too!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yapYGvloq44

petticoat
03-03-2012, 07:36 PM
--giggle--
@Flasher - you're too kind

Whisky And Speed
03-05-2012, 07:23 PM
I don't know where to post this or whether it appropriate or not to post it but :

http://musicfeeds.com.au/news/watch-marilyn-mansons-drunken-australian-tour/

Hazekiah
03-09-2012, 10:17 PM
Full-Length show here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U2zeM7NYXAc



Check it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kpqQFyzXimI

SETLIST:

The Doors Intro
Antichrist Superstar
Disposable Teens
The Love Song
Little Horn
The Dope Show
Rock is Dead
Tourniquet
Personal Jesus
mOBSCENE
Sweet Dreams (Are Made of This)
Irresponsible Hate Anthem
1996/The Beautiful People

Okay, FIRST OF ALL, for those of you who missed it...MARILYN MANSON MADE A PULP FICTION REFERENCE!

FUUUUUCK, YESSSSSS.

When the guy in the crowd accurately predicted which song was next:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hrm-rPSCIBw





As someone who's been quoting that scene since PoaAF came out, I vastly appreciated the reference! I swear, I'm just sitting at a desk at home but even under THOSE circumstances I almost stood the fuck up and cheered! So awesome.

Also, I'm not really usually a fan of distant/static bootlegs, but this one really goes a long way towards showing just how awesome their light show has become over the course of just a few shows. The MM formed by the lights and flanked by the MM banners is truly fantastic. It's been done before, but the corresponding banners to the left and the right really drive home the point. I just wish they'd LIGHT THE GODDAMNED DISCO BALL whenever the venue already has one anyway! Bah.

A couple other quick observations:

HOLY SHIT, TWIGGY'S WAH-WAH PEDAL ON "ANTICHRIST SUPERSTAR" IS TO DIE FOR. O_O

Was Manson wearing a red/pink jockstrap/suspenders at the start of the show or was a red light just hitting him strangely? o_O

LOL @ Manson's game before "The Dope Show"...haha, AWESOME.

Same goes for Twiggy's noodling and pick-scraping during "The Dope Show" and "Rock is Dead," they both just sound GREAT. Same goes for the crowd spontaneously chanting at the beginning of "Rock is Dead." FUCK, YEAH.

And did I hear Manson say "god is in the B.V."...? Kinda sounded like it!

FUCKING LOVE the added chants during the breakdown 3/4ths of the way through "Personal Jesus"...nice fucking touch!

Sooooo...who's dating Mischa Barton? Sablan or Sutter? o_O

And again:


CHECK OUT THE BIG BRAIN ON BRAD!

http://keister.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/pulpfiction6.jpg


Ahahah...GODFUCKINGDAMNIT I love so fucking much that he actually said that, lol.

:D

TheTeletubbieFlasher
03-11-2012, 12:15 PM
why do these videos keep being removed. This MUST be solved.

Norsefire
03-11-2012, 01:11 PM
I've never seen Pulp Fiction, although I promised someone I was going to watch it last September but then I just didn't and before that I said I was going to watch it and never did. Now you've reminded me Haz that I need to watch this film... tonight I'm watching Pulp Fiction.