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M Tragedy666
03-10-2012, 09:41 PM
Whenever being confronted from someone unfamiliar with Manson, I often cite The Dope Show for it's amazing lyrics. A lot of thought must have went into the writing of that song, as the lyrics are perfectly written in such a way that it could be talking about drugs, or it could be talking about Hollywood/celebrities/pop culture etc etc

Anytime the word "drugs" or "dope" are used, it obviously...or not so much to some... actually is a metaphore for Actors/Media, which pissed off a lot of parents who thought their kid was listening to some drug addict song. It's much deeper and more interesting than merely a bland drug song.

Just a quick shitty example: Actors, they say, are made in California, we love...their face...

You understand the point.

You guys are all diehard Manson fans who already know this shit.

My question is about how I've always been confused about the "Cops and Queers/Pigs and Fags" line. I feel like the whole song is lyrical genius in that it's about multiple things at once, without ever breaking character....Except for that line. How does that fit in with the point or message of the song?

Just curious what some of your thoughts are

Scorpion
03-11-2012, 09:05 AM
I think that's because cops have that stereotype of being so male, so representatively a 'man'. So, queers it's exactly the opposite. ''Make good-looking models'', them comes the sarcasm in the clip. That's because Manson meant cops and queers in the sense of saying the cops ARE queers, in The Dope Show's clip you can see cops kissing each other (cops and queers, but not with the 'and' meaning one and two, this or that, but meaning they are cops who are queers as well). Same with pigs and fags.

M Tragedy666
03-11-2012, 07:02 PM
It's easy to come up with a sarcastic and sociological view of that line. I could also add to your thought that maybe it has something to do with Cops representing the authority and drugs being a counter culture...extending on the Marilyn Manson ever growing list of dichotomies.

But I want to know how it specifically fits with the fact that the song is about the media and celebrities....perhaps even celebritarian in a sense. Again, it's a great line..."cops and queers". There are all sorts of philosophical things you could speculate on the meaning...but in the CONTEXT of the song, it seems to stand out to me as being off model for what the rest of the song is dealing with.

Cops are again seen in the "I Don't Like The Drugs" video, with there heads missing. He's obviously making a derogatory statement towards the law enforcement of America. Which I'm fine with. This is not intended to be a morality question. I could care less about what he or anyone thinks about cops.

I just want to know how it fits with celebrities and society being addicted to them like drugs..... Maybe "Cops" represent the business suits making shitty decisions in hollywood, and actors are the pretty people...the queers. Haha.

Any other idea's?

Sans Agendum
03-11-2012, 10:39 PM
Cops and queers. One upholds the status quo by choice. The other goes against it by nature.

Both make for people that can be idolized. Pretty simple.

Dorothy
03-12-2012, 07:09 PM
Cops and queers. One upholds the status quo by choice. The other goes against it by nature.

Both make for people that can be idolized. Pretty simple.

Both make good-looking (role) models, I like that.

Sans Agendum
03-13-2012, 01:36 AM
Conversely, they can be easily referred to in a derogatory manner as well, hence 'Pigs and Fags'.

Thus, making them Villains instead of Roll Models.

rusty shackleford
03-15-2012, 08:51 PM
Conversely, they can be easily referred to in a derogatory manner as well, hence 'Pigs and Fags'.

Thus, making them Villains instead of Roll Models.
I've wondered about this line myself from time to time. This makes so much sense I feel kind of dumb now.

TheTeletubbieFlasher
03-16-2012, 03:50 PM
That lyric was a pretty bold statement during the years 1998-1999.

Manson15Marilyn
04-23-2016, 06:16 AM
Cops and queers are like Marilyn and Manson, in the media total opposites but in society both are treated with a lot of notoriety making them both role models for kids. So whether society likes it or not, kids are looking up to queers as much as they are cops because of the media.

Hazekiah
04-23-2016, 08:26 AM
For the crux of the juxtaposition between "cops and queers," one needs not look any further back than the Stonewall Riots, in the heavily referenced year of Manson's own birth, 1969.

Three decades later, the idea of "queers" was still somehow distasteful enough a concept to justify not only dropping-out the vocals in the middle of a chart-topping single (wait, WAT?!?), but also blurring out Manson's lips as he sang the lyric.

Never one to shy away from upping the ante, Manson changed "cops and queers" to "pigs and fags" in response.

You know...to placate the offended, lol.

Pretty sure it's as simple as that.

\m/

Mexicanfiend
04-23-2016, 08:46 AM
I thought the pink gay cops on the video pretty much summed it up and made it clear. Oh well...

And, oh yeah, fuck the police too!!!!!!!!

Twiggz
04-23-2016, 11:39 AM
i remember reading this, not sure if thi is the original site, but it was a interesting read on the interpretations of MM lyrics, heres what they said about The Dope Show...


Personally, i feel Manson just wanted pink police officers necking each other in his video...for shits and giggles...he probably had a fucked up trippy dream...


">the drugs they say
>make us feel so hollow

non-drug users say that drugs empty your mind leaving you hollow drug users say that drugs empty you of your problems and your worries leaving you ignorantly blissful

>we love in vain
>narcissistic and so shallow

narcissistic basically meaning to be full of yourself and to have a high opinion of your own capabilities, we love ourselves because we're on drugs and we feel invincible and it's actually a childish way to deal with things

>the cops and queers
>to swim you have to swallow

there's a lot for this one
-from societies point of view, to be politically correct, they have to put up with law enforcement and homosexuals.
-also i think cops represent drugs that give you a power trip, queers are ones that make you feel "fruity" and to get high or have your head "swim", you have to swallow the pills.
-cops and queers are both groups that are hated whether they deserve it or not. as a group, i don't believe it is right to hate. i know cool cops and cool fags and dick head cops and dick head fags. for them to get along in life, they have to accept "swallow" the fact that people hate them irrationally.

>hate today
>no love for tomorrow

a lot of people do drugs b/c they hate the world and their life and they need the drugs to avoid committing suicide, kinda like manson on the ACS tour.

>we're all stars now in the dope show

there's a lot for this one too
-it relates to the narcissistic thing about how the drug users feel like stars and greater then everybody else b/c of the dope.
-society sees all the celebrities as drug users and as "dopes" .
-manson sees fame as the "dope show" b/c it's so fake and shallow, like drugs, and they are on center stage in the spotlight of the show.

>there's lots of pretty, pretty ones
>that want to get you high

-there's a lot of people who you have an attraction to, not always just physical, and they want to get you on drugs
-the pretty ones are the attractive seeming drugs and they can get you fucked up.
-the pretty ones are magazine companies (SPIN), television (David Letterman, MTV), and other companies that promised him fame and/or stardom "to get him high".

>but all the pretty, pretty ones
>will leave you low
>and blow your mind

-the people who want to get you high, will do so, but when they've used you and they're done laughing at your dumb drugged up ass, they bail on you.
-the drugs will leave you feeling like shit when you come down or go thru withdrawals.
-all the promises of the companies are empty and they debase and belittle manson when they decide not to feature him b/c they find out it might hurt their image and it "blows his mind" b/c several of these companies are supposed to be "cutting edge" and "non-conformist" and they buckle under pressure just like the metaphorical bible belt.

>they love you when you're on all the covers
>when you're not then they love another

people want to be your friend when your famous or when its sociably acceptable, but as soon as it's not kosher, then they detach themselves.

>the drugs they say
>are made in california

in this drugs stand for a lot of things : drugs, drug users, celebrities
-california is said to be drug heaven by most of uninformed america.
-drug users are said to be 'manufactured' in california.
-people feel inferior to celebs, so they watch movies to live vicariously, so the celebs are drugs to make average people feel better, sort of like Jim, in "The Glass Menagerie".

>we love your face
>we'd really like to sell you

-the companies pretended to be his best friend for their own financial gain.
-people love drugs and to sell drugs and buy drugs and take drugs and trade drugs and sing/write about drugs, etc..

>the cops and queers
>make good-looking models
-cops are supposed to be good role models
-queers are supposed to be bad role models
-a lot of male models are homosexual or at least fit the stereotypical format of it (the word queer seems to be used more often to describe homosexual men than homosexual women).
model could also mean a stereotype
-most people have a stereotype of the dick head cop stuffing his fat ass full of donuts and being a little bitch.
-most people have a stereotype of queers (male) as being very feminine and weak and talking in a higher tone of voice.
-most people have a stereotype of queers (female) as being very masculine, muscular women with short hair and "male" clothing.

>i hate today
>who will i wake up with tomorrow?

he hates today so he does drugs and after the point of blackouts, he's not sure who he will wake up as tomorrow or who he might make up with tomorrow. it's kinda blatant."

http://members.tripod.com/e_nox/lyrics/MA/thedopeshowinterps.html

The "stereotyping" of "queers" still makes me cringe. -_-

Nemoris Inferioris
04-23-2016, 12:12 PM
I always just Considered it a basic change in lyrics. Most might call Cops "Pig's", and Queers, or Homosexuals, are what most might call "Fags", that's all I saw it as.

Halo Infinity
04-23-2016, 02:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hl972jf8cs4

M Tragedy666
04-25-2016, 07:43 AM
I always just Considered it a basic change in lyrics. Most might call Cops "Pig's", and Queers, or Homosexuals, are what most might call "Fags", that's all I saw it as.

Yeah I agree he just switched it up live not unlike how he also changes the lyric "California" to whatever city he is in and "we love your face, we'd really like to sell you" became "we'd really like to come on it".

I wasn't asking why the switch. I was asking about the relevancy of the line itself. I didn't see how mentioning cops or queers in a song about how god is your drug and is in your tv as hollywood actors and they love you when you're on all the magazine covers and all of hollywood is narcissistic and cliche and hollow with no substance and you sleep with whoever to advance your empty pathetic careers...etc...

I just didn't get how cops or gays were relevant. But I love that he had cops in pink garb making out in the video. I know much of that album plays with androgyny and sexuality....and I guess also authority in some cases. But it just also stood out to me in that song....never knew what the fuck it meant.

But I think many of you guys offered some excellent insight. So thank you. It makes much more sense now.

Hazekiah
04-25-2016, 08:44 AM
Considering the fact that a "dope show" is essentially a morality play, any discussion of the subject would be incomplete WITHOUT references to cops and queers.

Shangri-LIE
04-27-2016, 03:59 AM
Nah, I'm pretty sure that he just inserted it in their to be edgy and was also a reference a Pink Flamingo-esque society. The Dope Show, while a Morality Play was actually about him evolving from a queer and a self appointed authority figure himself. He realized the hollow, whiney faggotry that was his Antichrist Superstar persona that failed to survive, so Mechanical Animals was in memoriam to that as well as a satire. The Dope Show is a very introspective song and a profound statement about the reality of Alien Abductions among the Children of those who served in the Military. Even with Rock is Dead, he speaks about "Alien Babies', which is a direct reference to Hybrids or "Star Children". And there is a global/governmental conspiracy to either enslave them, experiment on them and/or dilute their undomesticated transcendent of Human cognitive abilities kids/young adults with psychiatric medications. This is a continuation of the MKULTRA project that turns them into killers, unbeknownst to the victim who is being remotely controlled. MA was also a Conspiracy theory record. And everyone sucks cocks, essentially.

Celluloidholes
09-08-2017, 04:39 PM
I think the lyric "cops and queers" is memorable, powerful and yet no matter how long I think about it I can't make it out. I don't feel hate seeping out and I don't feel approval. It's almost like an incomplete sentence, with the next lyric being "make good looking models" I feel as if he was messing around and mixing up two halves of a sentence. We are missing something and maybe only he'll ever know.

cataract777
09-08-2017, 09:51 PM
I think what "Cops and queers make good looking models" means is that cops are seen as good (role) models to society while "queers" contribute to the models we see on the magazines. That's what I always thought it meant. Two different kinds of "models".

Bullsik
06-17-2018, 04:48 PM
For me it was always obvious that the source of "cops and queers" was the moment when George Michael was outed to the public as being gay. At the beginning of 1998 Manson moved to Hollywood which changed his perspective and ultimately gave him some inspiration. And one of the first scandals he witnessed was in April 1998 when George Michael was caught engaging in a sexual act by an undercover police officer in a public toilet in Beverly Hills, Los Angeles. It was a very big scandal at the time. Everyone was talking about it.

Hope it helps.

S.D.
06-18-2018, 04:05 AM
I doubt M Tragedy666 will check out the clarification on account of being dead, but yeah, Manson did mention George Michael's scandal in a December interview of that year: The Nightmare Before Christmas (http://www.providermodule.com/media/?v=i/1998/kerrang_dec)

Although it's hard to say if it was specifically influenced by that event, as he claims in that excerpt that Michael wanted to "live out" the line, despite the scandal happening in April, so several months before The Dope Show was released. All part of the album's Hollyweird mythology, I imagine.

Bullsik
06-18-2018, 05:04 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/l1J9OdZz7GLrpdMYM/giphy.gif


https://78.media.tumblr.com/d0bb3f808fa5a794ec09b821204405d8/tumblr_mza2itCdDZ1r3vteao1_500.gif


I think we can all agree now that Manson did it better :P