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Aint
04-04-2012, 09:26 AM
It's an interesting video I'm going to need to watch it a few more times, did anyone catch what the book was he was reading which I think had mirrored pages?
It's "The Living Bible." Johncraze figured that out for us.

Sans Agendum
04-04-2012, 10:32 AM
So, he's holding a seance. Manipulating things to make it seem like he's channeling spirits. Uses religious beliefs (reading the living bible) to guide their minds around certain ideas. Drugs the trusting girls. Has people on the sidelines lifting the table. They all go crazy because they think what is happening to them is completely real. They go from being well behaved women to rebellious and destructive psychopaths. He tries to keep one of the girls from drinking the crazy juice but she falls under the same influences as the other girls. He's upset. He kills her so he doesn't have to watch her suffer and die like the others.

Seems to be about his fans. He meant to entertain them but instead they became destructive and chaotic and rebellious because they believed so much in what he was doing. Kind of how some fans all dress like him and do drugs because they think it'll be cool to be like Manson. But really Marilyn Manson was a character, not something to look up to.

It's the third act where he destroys what he has created. Disintegrator Rising.

AssetReign
04-04-2012, 10:53 AM
So, he's holding a seance. Manipulating things to make it seem like he's channeling spirits. Uses religious beliefs (reading the living bible) to guide their minds around certain ideas. Drugs the trusting girls. Has people on the sidelines lifting the table. They all go crazy because they think what is happening to them is completely real. They go from being well behaved women to rebellious and destructive psychopaths. He tries to keep one of the girls from drinking the crazy juice but she falls under the same influences as the other girls. He's upset. He kills her so he doesn't have to watch her suffer and die like the others.

Seems to be about his fans. He meant to entertain them but instead they became destructive and chaotic and rebellious because they believed so much in what he was doing. Kind of how some fans all dress like him and do drugs because they think it'll be cool to be like Manson. But really Marilyn Manson was a character, not something to look up to.

It's the third act where he destroys what he has created. Disintegrator Rising.

Seances don't typically involve Biblical (symbolic of Christianity) imagery. I get more of a cult impression, along the lines of Jones.

Norsefire
04-04-2012, 10:57 AM
Seances don't typically involve Biblical (which is a symbol of Christianity) imagery. I get more of a cult impression, along the lines of Jones.

I was thinking the same, didn't he mention Jones recently in an interview?

AssetReign
04-04-2012, 11:02 AM
I was thinking the same, didn't he mention Jones recently in an interview?

Given Manson's love of multi-layered play on words symbolism, I'm sure there is probably layer upon layer of contextual meaning to the video (as with the titles "No Reflection" and "Born Villain.") I doubt the video has anything to do with whatever his opinion of his fans might be.

Sans Agendum
04-04-2012, 11:21 AM
Seances don't typically involve Biblical (symbolic of Christianity) imagery. I get more of a cult impression, along the lines of Jones. Are you kidding me? Seances don't involve floating tables or possession either? The fluid coming from the girls mouth could be considered ectoplasm also. So because there is a bible present there is no way this depicts a seance? Are you for real? O_o

I'm sure Bibles have been present at plenty of seances. Or any other religious text that will guide a person to believe in spirits and demon possession.

There is a very obvious faked seance being performed.

I'd say his opinion of his fans is that they don't get it and gravitate towards the negative rather than any good to be found in life. I'd say he's disappointed by a majority of them. In this video he is obviously portraying a leader who is educating a group and trying to guide their consciousness and beliefs. But instead of being enlightened they all go crazy. Fanatics.

It really is funny how putting the bible in his video fucks with so many people's vision of what is being presented.

AssetReign
04-04-2012, 11:39 AM
Are you kidding me? Seances don't involve floating tables or possession either? The fluid coming from the girls mouth could be considered ectoplasm also. So because there is a bible present there is no way this depicts a seance? Are you for real? O_o

I'm sure Bibles have been present at plenty of seances. Or any other religious text that will guide a person to believe in spirits and demon possession.

There is a very obvious faked seance being performed.

I'd say his opinion of his fans is that they don't get it and gravitate towards the negative rather than any good to be found in life. I'd say he's disappointed by a majority of them. In this video he is obviously portraying a leader who is educating a group and trying to guide their consciousness and beliefs. But instead of being enlightened they all go crazy. Fanatics.

It really is funny how putting the bible in his video fucks with so many people's vision of what is being presented.

I think it's a shame you're so closed off to any opinion other than your own. I get the feeling you think you're in sync with what Manson is trying to convey with every song, every video, every aside, every comment. It must be quite rewarding.

Sans Agendum
04-04-2012, 11:45 AM
I think it's a shame you're so closed off to any opinion other than your own. I get the feeling you think you're in sync with what Manson is trying to convey with every song, every video, every aside, every comment. It must be quite rewarding.Um. No. You're the one who tried to discredit ME. I have no problem with you seeing a Jonestown symbolism being presented. I simply don't appreciate that you go "There's a bible here. Not a seance". Don't accuse me of things that YOU are doing, please.

Personally I think Manson just presents a bunch of images and then leaves it up to the viewer to interpret context in the chaos. So there is no right or wrong answer. I wasn't mad at YOUR perception. I didn't appreciate that you were trying to discredit my interpretation.

AssetReign
04-04-2012, 11:48 AM
Um. No. You're the one who tried to discredit ME. I have no problem with you seeing a Jonestown symbolism being presented. I simply don't appreciate that you go "There's a bible here. Not a seance". Don't accuse me of things that YOU are doing, please.

If you're going to quote me, please do so accurately..."Seances don't typically involve Biblical (symbolic of Christianity) imagery. I get more of a cult impression, along the lines of Jones."
The fact you view someone having a different interpretation as an attempt to "discredit" you says it all. I won't engage in the back and forth you seem to enjoy so much though. You have your opinion and I have mine, and we'll leave it at that.

九戒Anla
04-04-2012, 12:03 PM
what is it about?

Sans Agendum
04-04-2012, 12:05 PM
If you're going to quote me, please do so accurately..."Seances don't typically involve Biblical (symbolic of Christianity) imagery. I get more of a cult impression, along the lines of Jones."
The fact you view someone having a different interpretation as an attempt to "discredit" you says it all. I won't engage in the back and forth you seem to enjoy so much though. You have your opinion and I have mine, and we'll leave it at that.You quoted me and then presented an observation (that you can't even back up) in order to contradict what I had to say. And now you're being a condescending dick by pretending to be the tolerant one. I never have a problem with having a difference of opinion with people and it's a douchebag move on your part by insinuating otherwise. You initiated this argument by quoting me and saying "Seances don't typically involve Biblical imagery", which is a wishy washy ambiguous statement that means nothing and didn't need to be brought up. End of discussion.

Whisky And Speed
04-04-2012, 12:12 PM
Personally I think Manson just presents a bunch of images and then leaves it up to the viewer to interpret context in the chaos. So there is no right or wrong answer. I wasn't mad at YOUR perception. I didn't appreciate that you were trying to discredit my interpretation.

I agree with you here brad.

I have another analysis and it is not wrong or right as you may find your answers.

I felt that Manson has two personalities here or more and that he really doesn't know which one that he loves .I imagined him as a cool dad with a suit with his daughters he loves them, he loves their beauty and he eats with them on one table , reads the bible with them and teaches them from it and leads them in prayer before meals too like any other dad.On the other hand, he is a killer deep inside when he prayers he invokes sort of evil magic power and instead of caring for his daughters he kills them and he puts poison in their drink to kill them and at the same time he embraces one of his daughters as she dies and he couldn't help but letting her die.At the same time he is the rock singer how rocks the stage ...Marilyn Manson.

I think that the music video is about multiple personality disorder that Manson suffered from at some point in his life(I am not sure though).

Cringeon
04-04-2012, 12:18 PM
Isn't it obvious that the dinner table represents all the food MM eats?


Seriously, there is no wrong interpretations. Take whatever you want from it, the pissing war is distracting.

九戒Anla
04-04-2012, 12:21 PM
I agree with you here brad.

I have another analysis and it is not wrong or right as you may find your answers.

I felt that Manson has two personalities here or more and that he really doesn't know which one that he loves .I imagined him as a cool dad with a suit with his daughters he loves them, he loves their beauty and he eats with them on one table , reads the bible with them and teaches them from it and leads them in prayer before meals too like any other dad.On the other hand, he is a killer deep inside when he prayers he invokes sort of magic power and instead of caring for his daughters he kills them and he puts poison in their drink to kill them and at the same time he embraces one of his daughters as she dies and he couldn't help but letting her die.At the same time he is the rock singer how rocks the stage ...Marilyn Manson.

I think that the music video is about multiple personality disorder that Manson suffered from at some point in his life(I am not sure though).

he kiss his daughter like this?
http://photoupload.org/images/28301997823200416012.jpg

Whisky And Speed
04-04-2012, 12:22 PM
I liked a scene in the video where Manson tries to save a poisoned girl and he cries as she dies and kisses her the kiss of life but at the same time he drowns her in the toilet(classic Manson) LOL. this scene emphasizes the idea of no reflection and the multiple personally disorder.

thanks,

Whisky And Speed
04-04-2012, 12:24 PM
he kiss his daughter like this?
http://photoupload.org/images/28301997823200416012.jpg

if you studied first aid like me it is the kiss of life to save a life or he sucks the poison from her mouth.I felt a fatherly manner with the chicks this time(he didn't fuck them).I could be wrong and it is just me cause I am a girl but this is the life kiss a technique in first aid Google it pal.Remember that the video in my humble opinion is about many personalities in one manson.

thanks,

brian219
04-04-2012, 12:27 PM
He wasn't trying to poison that girl, who seems to be the "wife" figure. She grabbed the poisoned glass and drank before he could stop her. Then he drowns her lest the madness consume her as it had the intended targets. She wasn't supposed to die.

九戒Anla
04-04-2012, 12:30 PM
if you studied first aid like me it is the kiss of life to save a life or he sucks the poison from her mouth.I felt a fatherly manner with the chicks this time(he didn't fuck them).I could be wrong and it is just me cause I am a girl but this is the life kiss a technique in first aid Google it pal.Remember that the video in my humble opinion is about many personalities in one manson.

thanks,

well,i just don't think so because he finally kill her~

Norsefire
04-04-2012, 12:31 PM
He wasn't trying to poison that girl, who seems to be the "wife" figure. She grabbed the poisoned glass and drank before he could stop her. Then he frowns her lest the madness consume her as it had the intended targets. She wasn't supposed to die.

Yeah that's pretty much how I saw that part, I enjoyed that part the way he rushes in but he's too late. Then I guess he drowned her before she went bat shit crazy like the other girls. Either way she was going to die in the end but drowning her in the toilet might of been the better way to go? lol.

Koko
04-04-2012, 12:33 PM
Great video! I thought of the Jim Jones Massacre as well, Manson even mentioned it a few weeks ago on an interview. To me the video was showing an end of the word scenery (a flood) and 4 of the girls blindly following Manson, allowing him to manipulate and kill them with poison. Their faith after they pray is probably what made the table levitate. To me, the video and song are about destroying parts of oneself, the girls on one side of the table were blond and on the other side brunettes, they were probably representing dual personalities being destroyed.

Also, did anyone notice that the bible pages were mirrors?

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb368/Ekodrakvood/norelfection.jpg

Whisky And Speed
04-04-2012, 12:34 PM
well,i just don't think so because he finally kill her~

yes he tried to save her but instead he kills her as he has multiple personalities.

AssetReign
04-04-2012, 12:35 PM
if you studied first aid like me it is the kiss of life to save a life or he sucks the poison from her mouth.I felt a fatherly manner with the chicks this time(he didn't fuck them).I could be wrong and it is just me cause I am a girl but this is the life kiss a technique in first aid Google it pal.Remember that the video in my humble opinion is about many personalities in one manson.

thanks,

I do agree it's a more benevolent (as opposed to blatantly malevolent and lecherous) Manson we're seeing in this video. I don't really see the "fatherly" aspect you're seeing in the same context as you.
I do love the effects the special camera used gave to this video. I think I recall reading something he said about it previously being used only for National Geographic documentaries.

iggy
04-04-2012, 12:36 PM
Isn't it obvious that the dinner table represents all the food MM eats?


Seriously, there is no wrong interpretations. Take whatever you want from it, the pissing war is distracting.


After how many times Manson's used that "art is a question mark" line, you'd think this wouldn't need explaining anymore.

九戒Anla
04-04-2012, 12:36 PM
yes he tried to save her but instead he kills her as he has multiple personalities.
well,get your point now~

AssetReign
04-04-2012, 12:41 PM
I liked a scene in the video where Manson tries to save a poisoned girl and he cries as she dies and kisses her the kiss of life but at the same time he drowns her in the toilet(classic Manson) LOL. this scene emphasizes the idea of no reflection and the multiple personally disorder.

thanks,

I got the impression the drowning was more of a "mercy killing," and that particular girl seems to represent the mother figure since she was seated next to him at the head of the table.

brian219
04-04-2012, 12:44 PM
Mirrored bible pages / reflecting god.

Whisky And Speed
04-04-2012, 12:45 PM
. I don't really see the "fatherly" aspect you're seeing in the same context as you.

Manson's art has a certain aspect that moves you and makes you think and see what he offers from your angle not from his and he doesn't impose his views on you unlike many artists.

maybe i saw this fatherly aspect because I am a girly girl not a man.

thanks,

AssetReign
04-04-2012, 12:46 PM
After how many times Manson's used that "art is a question mark" line, you'd think this wouldn't need explaining anymore.

True, but it's interesting to read all the different interpretations and how ppl came to the conclusions they did.

iggy
04-04-2012, 12:50 PM
Oh it's definitely interesting to read, I just find it a little funny when people start arguing. There are no wrong interpretation, Manson's been saying so for years. My interpretation is that he likes unicorns.

AssetReign
04-04-2012, 12:50 PM
Mirrored bible pages / reflecting god.

"in His image..."

iggy
04-04-2012, 12:51 PM
"in His image..."

When I'm God, everyone dies.

AssetReign
04-04-2012, 12:53 PM
Oh it's definitely interesting to read, I just find it a little funny when people start arguing. There are no wrong interpretation, Manson's been saying so for years. My interpretation is that he likes unicorns.

I agree, except for the part about "unicorns." I think he prefers leprechauns.

AssetReign
04-04-2012, 12:53 PM
When I'm God, everyone dies.

Yes!

Whisky And Speed
04-04-2012, 12:54 PM
My interpretation is that he likes unicorns.

NO, uniporns.

iggy
04-04-2012, 12:54 PM
I agree, except for the part about "unicorns." I think he prefers leprechauns.

HOW DARE YOU CONTRADICT MY INTERPRETATION!!! CLEARLY THE DEAD HOOKERS AT THE END SYMBOLIZE SEXUALITY AND ONLY VIRGINS CAN SEE UNICORNS. SINCE MANSON IS A WHORE AND HAS NO REFLECTION....OMG MANSON IS A UNICORN.

AssetReign
04-04-2012, 12:55 PM
HOW DARE YOU CONTRADICT MY INTERPRETATION!!! CLEARLY THE DEAD HOOKERS AT THE END SYMBOLIZE SEXUALITY AND ONLY VIRGINS CAN SEE UNICORNS. SINCE MANSON IS A WHORE AND HAS NO REFLECTION....OMG MANSON IS A UNICORN.


Hahahah! :::bowing:::

ThreeEyedGod
04-04-2012, 01:16 PM
I see him as a baphomet-like false prophet preaching from The Living Bible and 'creating miracles' ( ala the antichrist) to a flock that has 'lost their way' and needs Manson's saving grace.

petticoat
04-04-2012, 01:44 PM
I have so much to say about this video that I don’t know where to start, so I’ll just dive in. I think it’s a visual representation of the destruction of illusions insofar as how we project our wants/needs/desires onto other people making them into a mental construct that suits us or makes us feel fulfilled in some way, all the while being false. All of the blood is indicative of the mental pain inherent in the act of purging false beliefs about yourself and others and gods.

I think that’s what the girls/women represent – different aspects of the ‘perfect’ mate – with the last one being the last and strongest illusion. The one that didn’t know it was an illusion. The way he held her and kept her from drinking the viscous gunk of reality indicated how the mind tenaciously holds onto things regardless of their basis in truth, and regardless of their destruction upon us, we hold some lies very dear, very close. The way he sits so still at the table while the other girls are smashing up the place represents, to me, how all hell can be breaking lose in the personality as the mind rearranges itself causes a look (and sometimes, feeling) of paralysis. All the work being done is inner work.

The psyche then, in a Jim Jones-esque manner, in order to preserve itself and move closer to self-actualization, actually split off in such a way as to allow that last remnant of illusion to take its own self out via suicide (drinking from a plastic cup in hiding in the bathroom). Once conscious of the last bit of false belief being sloughed off, the mind tries to stop it, crying inside as the realization comes to let go and put it out of its misery once and for all (drown her in the toilet).

Once that is done and he walks back into the main room, he surveys the scene. The wreckage of a personality that is no more – no more dependent on false illusions, no more dependent on needing others to fill voids, no more childish ideas of a soul mate, no more allowing others to vampirize psychic and creative and emotional energy. Just the singular person is left, to continue developing and evolving. (With its shirttail out because any rearrangement of thinking is messy, right?) Not to say that there won’t be more delusions that need killing in the future, but at least in that area, the floors are swept clean.

Other items of note, the loaf of bread never broken, the two apples never tasted. There’s something both biblical and virginal going on but I’m not there yet in being satisfied with my thoughts on those things. Also, what is the black band on one of the brunette’s head and why does she look like Manzin? Are the bible pages clear near the end?

So many mysteries -- this is art and I am well-pleased.

ThreeEyedGod
04-04-2012, 02:14 PM
no more childish ideas of a soul mate.
Interesting that you say that as The Living Bible is supposed to be intended for children.


the loaf of bread never broken, the two apples never tasted..
I've got something you can never eat.


False prophet shit is a bit much.
Be chill

petticoat
04-04-2012, 02:31 PM
@ThreeEyedGod :: Nice observations. Made me shiver.

Also, by consciously destroying self-limiting illusions ("You don't even want to know what I'm going to do to you"), parts of the 'self' are murdered, thus there's an emptiness felt -- "I've got no reflection." It takes balls to do this, with full knowledge of the void that follows. Perhaps even a bit of villainy is required, it sure can't hurt. I'm thinking that some or all of the rest of the songs will continue along this journey, maybe ending with an acceptance that everything is absurd, enjoy the ride while you can, and such as that. I could also be utterly wrong and putting too much of my own experience into the meaning.

suphiafilos
04-04-2012, 03:27 PM
I liked the video. The image is almost "clean", which I love.

Other thing, the poison thing can be a reference to Shakespeare (as a friend of mine pointed out):

There may be in the cup
A spider steeped, and one may drink, depart,
And yet partake no venom, for his knowledge
Is not infected: but if one present
Th' abhorred ingredient to his eye, make known
How he hath drunk, he cracks his gorge, his sides,
With violent hefts. I have drunk, and seen the spider."
- William Shakespeare, The Winter's Tale, 2.1

Don't you think?

Sans Agendum
04-04-2012, 03:29 PM
if you studied first aid like me it is the kiss of life to save a life or he sucks the poison from her mouth.I felt a fatherly manner with the chicks this time(he didn't fuck them).I could be wrong and it is just me cause I am a girl but this is the life kiss a technique in first aid Google it pal.Remember that the video in my humble opinion is about many personalities in one manson.

thanks,Manson is a bad bad creepy uncle. :(

brian219
04-04-2012, 04:18 PM
You poison all your children to camoflage your scars?

Nuclear Baby
04-04-2012, 04:20 PM
I looove petticoat's interpretation of this. Even if it's not what Manson was trying to convey, it's a great way to see it.

Also, to those arguing about having a Bible at a seance, it think it loses its Bible status once it's text has been replaced with mirrored pages. Just sayin'.

I didn't really get this video immediately, but after reading this thread it's opened my mind a little.

Adonai
04-04-2012, 04:28 PM
To me, the best video since The Golden Age of Grotesque era. No doubt.

I absolutely concur. Easily the best one since The Golden Age of Grotesque, it made me very happy.

The first time I watched it I didn't really understand what was going on, at the end I was like "What the fuck just happened?" I had to watch it a few times! It definitely has an Antichrist Superstar and Holy Wood feel to it. It was dark, dirty, morbid, horrifying, beautiful, emotional, violent, sexy, rock and roll, all in one. It was almost like watching a modern horror movie, just with Marilyn Manson and 100x better. As some have already stated, "It's classic Manson!"

EDIT: All I want to know is, why the FUCK did his wife/girlfriend drink the poison?? Everything else I think I get.


I have so much to say about this video that I don’t know where to start, so I’ll just dive in. I think it’s a visual representation of the destruction of illusions insofar as how we project our wants/needs/desires onto other people making them into a mental construct that suits us or makes us feel fulfilled in some way, all the while being false. All of the blood is indicative of the mental pain inherent in the act of purging false beliefs about yourself and others and gods.

I think that’s what the girls/women represent – different aspects of the ‘perfect’ mate – with the last one being the last and strongest illusion. The one that didn’t know it was an illusion. The way he held her and kept her from drinking the viscous gunk of reality indicated how the mind tenaciously holds onto things regardless of their basis in truth, and regardless of their destruction upon us, we hold some lies very dear, very close. The way he sits so still at the table while the other girls are smashing up the place represents, to me, how all hell can be breaking lose in the personality as the mind rearranges itself causes a look (and sometimes, feeling) of paralysis. All the work being done is inner work.

The psyche then, in a Jim Jones-esque manner, in order to preserve itself and move closer to self-actualization, actually split off in such a way as to allow that last remnant of illusion to take its own self out via suicide (drinking from a plastic cup in hiding in the bathroom). Once conscious of the last bit of false belief being sloughed off, the mind tries to stop it, crying inside as the realization comes to let go and put it out of its misery once and for all (drown her in the toilet).

Once that is done and he walks back into the main room, he surveys the scene. The wreckage of a personality that is no more – no more dependent on false illusions, no more dependent on needing others to fill voids, no more childish ideas of a soul mate, no more allowing others to vampirize psychic and creative and emotional energy. Just the singular person is left, to continue developing and evolving. (With its shirttail out because any rearrangement of thinking is messy, right?) Not to say that there won’t be more delusions that need killing in the future, but at least in that area, the floors are swept clean.

Other items of note, the loaf of bread never broken, the two apples never tasted. There’s something both biblical and virginal going on but I’m not there yet in being satisfied with my thoughts on those things. Also, what is the black band on one of the brunette’s head and why does she look like Manzin? Are the bible pages clear near the end?

So many mysteries -- this is art and I am well-pleased.


Very good observations! I was pretty mystified the first few times I watched it. This video is one of the reasons why I love Marilyn Manson so much because there is just so much to it, it's dark, and evil. This video along with the Born Villain trailer is what I want, Manson is definitely moving in the right direction. I bet this record is going to fucking blow us away. I am totally psyched for it.

The Wax Gentleman
04-04-2012, 04:37 PM
I've just gone through this entire thread... And there are some things I agree with, some not.
People are trying to analyze the clips of Manson singing in the flooded room with the smeared makeup... Quite frankly, the only thing that really needs to be analyzed is the actual drama that's playing out... The singing is just what's done in most music videos... To bring us back to the music.
Anyways, my interpretation, after having read all of your comments:
We have to keep in mind that Manson has referred to Born Villain as a "concept album." And this song, especially given the track list, seems like an introduction of sorts into the album. I assume the character Manson is portraying is some sort of psychopathic murderer, who likes to toy with his victims before he kills them, but, his wife has fallen victim, accidentally, to one of his "plans," so to speak. Obviously all of the symbolic references everybody's mentioning are relevant, but I'm just mentioning the storyline.

It's also possible that his wife was horrified at the destruction around her, and killed herself in a desperate attempt to escape.

Sans Agendum
04-04-2012, 04:38 PM
I agree, except for the part about "unicorns." I think he prefers leprechauns.If you agree, then maybe the next time you state your opinion you could do so WITHOUT using mine as a launching point. Again, I had no problem with your interpretation. My problem was with your "Typically seances don't have biblical themes" comment, as if you were trying to dissuade from the idea that a seance is happening in the video. What was the point of that if not to devalue my opinion? Drop it already. I'm not narrow minded or unwilling to allow others to think for themselves. That seems to be YOUR game.

Iggy can pay attention to this also. Nowhere have I argued against anybody's interpretation. It's like you guys are blind to reality at times and just want to bait people into arguments and then criticize them for the arguments YOU start.

Sans Agendum
04-04-2012, 04:46 PM
I liked the video. The image is almost "clean", which I love.

Other thing, the poison thing can be a reference to Shakespeare (as a friend of mine pointed out):

There may be in the cup
A spider steeped, and one may drink, depart,
And yet partake no venom, for his knowledge
Is not infected: but if one present
Th' abhorred ingredient to his eye, make known
How he hath drunk, he cracks his gorge, his sides,
With violent hefts. I have drunk, and seen the spider."
- William Shakespeare, The Winter's Tale, 2.1

Don't you think?That's eerie! Good find!

Adonai
04-04-2012, 04:48 PM
It's also possible that his wife was horrified at the destruction around her, and killed herself in a desperate attempt to escape.

OK, that kind of sort of makes sense. I suppose I can accept that, although we don't see that desperation in her. Do we?

pad18
04-04-2012, 05:01 PM
at first I really didn't understand what was going on in the video, but I agree with whoever said that the girls are his other personalities. did anyone notice that the two on the left of him were brunette and the two on the right were blondes?

Adonai
04-04-2012, 05:10 PM
Do you guys see somebody all in black standing in the background in the upper right hand corner in front of the door around 1:16 - 1:17? You just catch a glimpse but you can see them moving what looks like their arm.

What the fuck is that?

pad18
04-04-2012, 05:11 PM
that's manson

Adonai
04-04-2012, 05:14 PM
that's manson

Oh ... yeah, huh ... I feel dumb now.


EDIT:

I think it confused me because we see Manson sitting at the table (1:11,) then we see him for a glimpse in the background at the door (1:16,) back at the table at (1:19,) then he is back at the door at (1:23.)

ThreeEyedGod
04-04-2012, 05:28 PM
One of the most interesting parts is Manson's reactions to the girls made(?) to dance in front of him: the emotion is almost disdain towards what he is witness to.

21Faces
04-04-2012, 06:11 PM
So, he's holding a seance. Manipulating things to make it seem like he's channeling spirits. Uses religious beliefs (reading the living bible) to guide their minds around certain ideas. Drugs the trusting girls. Has people on the sidelines lifting the table. They all go crazy because they think what is happening to them is completely real. They go from being well behaved women to rebellious and destructive psychopaths. He tries to keep one of the girls from drinking the crazy juice but she falls under the same influences as the other girls. He's upset. He kills her so he doesn't have to watch her suffer and die like the others.

Seems to be about his fans. He meant to entertain them but instead they became destructive and chaotic and rebellious because they believed so much in what he was doing. Kind of how some fans all dress like him and do drugs because they think it'll be cool to be like Manson. But really Marilyn Manson was a character, not something to look up to.

It's the third act where he destroys what he has created. Disintegrator Rising.
No.


I have so much to say about this video that I don’t know where to start, so I’ll just dive in. I think it’s a visual representation of the destruction of illusions insofar as how we project our wants/needs/desires onto other people making them into a mental construct that suits us or makes us feel fulfilled in some way, all the while being false. All of the blood is indicative of the mental pain inherent in the act of purging false beliefs about yourself and others and gods.

I think that’s what the girls/women represent – different aspects of the ‘perfect’ mate – with the last one being the last and strongest illusion. The one that didn’t know it was an illusion. The way he held her and kept her from drinking the viscous gunk of reality indicated how the mind tenaciously holds onto things regardless of their basis in truth, and regardless of their destruction upon us, we hold some lies very dear, very close. The way he sits so still at the table while the other girls are smashing up the place represents, to me, how all hell can be breaking lose in the personality as the mind rearranges itself causes a look (and sometimes, feeling) of paralysis. All the work being done is inner work.

The psyche then, in a Jim Jones-esque manner, in order to preserve itself and move closer to self-actualization, actually split off in such a way as to allow that last remnant of illusion to take its own self out via suicide (drinking from a plastic cup in hiding in the bathroom). Once conscious of the last bit of false belief being sloughed off, the mind tries to stop it, crying inside as the realization comes to let go and put it out of its misery once and for all (drown her in the toilet).

Once that is done and he walks back into the main room, he surveys the scene. The wreckage of a personality that is no more – no more dependent on false illusions, no more dependent on needing others to fill voids, no more childish ideas of a soul mate, no more allowing others to vampirize psychic and creative and emotional energy. Just the singular person is left, to continue developing and evolving. (With its shirttail out because any rearrangement of thinking is messy, right?) Not to say that there won’t be more delusions that need killing in the future, but at least in that area, the floors are swept clean.

Other items of note, the loaf of bread never broken, the two apples never tasted. There’s something both biblical and virginal going on but I’m not there yet in being satisfied with my thoughts on those things. Also, what is the black band on one of the brunette’s head and why does she look like Manzin? Are the bible pages clear near the end?

So many mysteries -- this is art and I am well-pleased.
I think petticoat is much closer than anyone else so far. The song's title and lyrics provide much of the necessary context here- as is usually the case. Before seeing the video, I guessed that the song was about Manson- and it probably still is, to a degree. But in another sense the video is definitely also about someone else. It wouldn't be the first time Manson has made comments about the duplicitous nature of women in his life (Did I Introduce You To My Other Personality?) or the duplicity of nature in general- the video probably comments on this idea on all levels, both internal and relational.

My immediate take on this is that we are watching a failed exorcism. The room/table is a woman's internal landscape, the other female inhabitants are other personae (alter personalities, fractured psyches, figurative or literal "demons," etc.- same thing) inhabiting that landcape. I infer this from how the flooding of the house seems to parallel the drowning of the woman near the end. Manson purges these destructive entities, but he seems to lose the woman in the process.

EDIT - The rising table is a likely/possible reference to Blatty's Exorcist. The burning book recalls- in my mind, the interview Manson gave where he described Celebritarian art as something like a book/magazine(?) that catches fire as soon as you read it? (I'm paraphrasing here).

brian219
04-04-2012, 07:06 PM
Reading Brad's breakdown, something clicked for me. I was getting a very Charles Manson vibe from his interpretation. That's when I realized, Charlie had a guitar.

Mar5hall
04-04-2012, 07:07 PM
My immediate take on this is that we are watching a failed exorcism. The room/table is a woman's internal landscape, the other female inhabitants are other personae (alter personalities, fractured psyches, "demons," etc.- same thing) inhabiting that landcape. I infer this from how the flooding of the house seems to parallel the drowning of the woman near the end. Manson purges these destructive entities, but he seems to lose the woman in the process.

yes! I'm surprised it took 16 pages to find someone else who shares my interpretation

21Faces
04-04-2012, 07:25 PM
Reading Brad's breakdown, something clicked for me. I was getting a very Charles Manson vibe from his interpretation. That's when I realized, Charlie had a guitar.
Valid point about the guitar re: Charlie Manson. But Brad didn't mention anything about cults. Petticoat mentioned Jonestown, however- which fits with the poisoning. The vomiting could also be taken as a further Exorcism reference- in conjunction with the floating table.

Scorpion
04-04-2012, 07:29 PM
I thought at first the table scene was something illusional only to the girls, and Manson's girl was actually not holding it anymore, wanted to fit in and drank the thing.

Your exorcism theory makes much more sense, but I don't see how it fits with the girl drinking the poison near the end.

21Faces
04-04-2012, 08:01 PM
I'm not sure with things like music videos it is useful, possible, or even intentioned that viewers hold every element in this kind of work to a rigid narrative. But... if you're going to run with what I've said, then you have to look at the bathroom scene separately from the table scene, because the table scene is just an illustration of the woman's interior. It informs what we see at the end. The girls at the table are wrecking the house. If the house is the woman, then we can infer that these interior inhabitants are a destructive force. Manson walks in on a woman drinking some dark liquid. He immediately tries to stop her. So the dark liquid is not good for her, we think. During the following rapid cuts, the woman appears to be either dead or near death and this seems to distress Manson a great deal. At the end, he plunges her head under water and she regurgitates the black liquid in the same manner as the females occupying her interior. She seems to be dead by the end, and so do they.

That's why I personally would qualify this as a "failed" exorcism. The demons are dead, but so is their host.

Adonai
04-04-2012, 08:07 PM
I'm just not seeing an "exorcism" at all in this video.

It is really interesting to read what everyone else sees and is coming up with though, it's awesome.

AssetReign
04-04-2012, 08:10 PM
I'm just not seeing an "exorcism" at all in this video.

It is really interesting to read what everyone else sees and is coming up with though, it's awesome and definitely interesting.

I agree on both counts. (I'm not seeing the exorcism aspect either, but the different interpretations make for a great read.)

Scorpion
04-04-2012, 08:27 PM
Wait a minute. They drink something GREEN, and their vomits are blood (that's why it's a really almost black RED), I guess.

Interesting to see the same story happening at 2 sides at the same time.

My first analysis:

When he says ''Am I deaf or dead?'', he shows his tattoo 'etc', which was used on Armagoddamn, when he wanted to show how disposable the etc made the other things which wasn't mentioned. "Fuck, eat, kill, etc'' ''Am I deaf, dead, etc''

When he says ''Made with scars and filled with my old wounds'', then he shows his HSG heart spiral tattoo. I guess that's pretty clear. (I guess someone here mentioned that, sorry to repeat)

The band is playing on the water, which has reflections. Apparently, the whole band were outside the house, because the house was being flooded by the rain, and when the band is on the video, they're on the rain, playing in a flooded place as well.

Apparently, the bible (which isn't the common bible, it's a paraphrased one, called ''Living Bible'') has its pages made of some material that has a reflection power as well, maybe trying to say that the bible is understood to fit people's own thoughts and likes/like not, so they can see themselves on it, identify with it. I mean, they can read it and will always find a new meaning to it, a new way to read it, a new way to express it, that you like more than the others. Something that fits you, instead of the opposite.

It does seem like an exorcism, because they do all the ritual of it, in a christian way, praying and everything. When they're dancing to him, is just like a offerend.

He offers the poison to every girl but his. He then locks the doors, as if what is there couldn't escape, and he knew something would happen. What he didn't expect, however, was that the bible's alienation rebounded into his girl's mind, making her drink the poison as well, trying to fit in, trying to find the meaning these girls had found on that. The flying table was imaginary at the girls' minds, they were blind about the bible, and that killed them inside, making them allucinate and regurgitate to death. The vomit represents the ideas and words on the bible, how they consume you from the beginning untill the end, when they already have consumed everything and you can't handle the truth anymore, so you try to put it out, but can't, because your mind is already perma-damaged. But in the idea of the music video, they 'drown' themselves into the bible.

Then, Manson cries, because he feels terrible that his own work ruined something he loved. Something he did fucked him back. Then, the Narcissus thing in the toilet. As the house was already flooded, when the girl is finally dead, the other ones already have regurgitated everything out (the blood), and it mixes with the water, turning it in a blood bath.


That's my theory. Oh, and the camera thing that Manson spoke on february... I think it was those slow motion things when the table comes down and the girls start to go wild. They were perfect, just like nat geo's.

Adonai
04-04-2012, 08:45 PM
Apparently, the bible ... maybe trying to say that the bible is understood to fit people's own thoughts and likes/like not, so they can see themselves on it, identify with it. I mean, they can read it and will always find a new meaning to it, a new way to read it, a new way to express it, that you like more than the others. Something that fits you, instead of the opposite.


I really like your interpretation here. Good job! I was trying to figure out what the mirrored bible could mean and I think you may have the answer.


The green I think is definitely symbolic of poison. In fact, my impression is that is what was leaking on the walls and floors as well, even for the band shots. I figured it was all poison ...

EDIT: ... which may support the idea that the whole dinner scene is internal.

21Faces
04-04-2012, 09:22 PM
^because it is. I'm sorry, but not everything is up for interpretation. For example, the band performance element is just that: an element. It doesn't have anything to do with the narrative material in the story. It's just an obligatory music video device. Now... I know this is really "out there" for some people, but seriously is it just possible that the song's title and refrain serve as the interpretive foundation of the work?

iggy
04-04-2012, 10:04 PM
^because it is. I'm sorry, but not everything is up for interpretation. For example, the band performance element is just that: an element. It doesn't have anything to do with the narrative material in the story. It's just an obligatory music video device. Now... I know this is really "out there" for some people, but seriously is it just possible that the song's title and refrain serve as the interpretive foundation of the work?

It's not entirely without meaning though. The band performing in a pool of water (even though they have no reflection), as well as the specific poses he makes such as the outstretched hand that's supposed to mean something or another. I'll admit there's not much to the performance sections, but we should all know by now that Marilyn Manson never does anything without some kind of meaning.

Cassandra
04-04-2012, 10:19 PM
I don't really have any gripes with it save for the editing. I suppose those jittery, quickish, off-time cuts are becoming a trademark style for Manson videos across directors since about PHIH. I'm not really a fan; I find them disorienting and unmusical. If you mute the video it looks like it was cut to a much faster song. The slo-mo shots are easily the best part.

That was my only complaint as well.

Keep the interpretations coming, I love reading what you guys come up with.

21Faces
04-04-2012, 10:25 PM
^Fair enough. The furthest I'd go it to say that his... animated faces and such during the performance element illustrate his own internal space. And yeah, there's water in that too. Something else worth noting- Manson's wardrobe and appearance are completely different between the "table" scene and the "bathroom" scene. So those trying to cram this into a linear narrative either have to accept that these two events take place at completely different times or... is there a missing scene where Manson changes clothes and combs his hair differently? I'd love to know/eyeroll

I'd say it makes much more sense that- just as in a gazillion other music videos, Manson is portraying multiple figures here. As I mentioned earlier, this illustrates a duplicity within his own person as he relates to this situation with the woman.

九戒Anla
04-04-2012, 10:35 PM
i have a question here
manson is locking the door at 1'23"
http://photoupload.org/images/94174045145284325696.jpg
but the door is unlocked at 3'23"
http://photoupload.org/images/51531951286744860244.jpg
at 3'27",the dor is locked again
http://photoupload.org/images/95248128391090232874.jpg
why?what does it mean?

iggy
04-04-2012, 10:37 PM
i have a question here
manson is locking the door at 1'23"
http://photoupload.org/images/94174045145284325696.jpg
but the door is unlocked at 3'23"
http://photoupload.org/images/51531951286744860244.jpg
at 3'27",the dor is locked again
http://photoupload.org/images/95248128391090232874.jpg
why?what does it mean?

It means someone missed a prop. Or that MM is magic.

21Faces
04-04-2012, 10:40 PM
Scripty fucked up. Or, alternately, the director/editor prioritized the quality of particular shots over continuity. In other words it doesn't mean anything at all.

EDIT - Iggy knows what the fuck is up, thank God.

九戒Anla
04-04-2012, 10:51 PM
i still can not understand..................................when he lock the door,these girls are alive.when these girls die,the door is unlocked.................what the hell...........................

九戒Anla
04-04-2012, 10:54 PM
maybe everything these girls saw is only illusion.

Adonai
04-04-2012, 11:06 PM
maybe everything these girls saw is only illusion.


Scripty fucked up. Or, alternately, the director/editor prioritized the quality of particular shots over continuity. In other words it doesn't mean anything at all.

Some strange things are definitely happening in that video. I wonder if the board appearing and reappearing on the door is actually intentional or really a glaring mistake? It's pretty blatant. Not that it really matters I suppose? It's interesting.



^Manson's wardrobe and appearance are completely different between the "table" scene and the "bathroom" scene.

Great observation! I hadn't really noticed that until now, you are right. Further evidence that the "table" scene was all internal?

21Faces
04-04-2012, 11:24 PM
^Yeah, lol. I'd pretty much say it's a slam dunk at this point. Although I'd be happy to hear any other analysis that ties in the video's content, structure, and the themes established by the actual lyrics and song title. I'm open to the idea that the other female figures at the table are elements of Manson's psyche. As for the door, no. The mirror book is more interesting. I don't know what a satisfactory explanation for that is. It seems to be a hugely intentional bit just sort of snuck in for a moment like the gold hand from PHIH. I mean the song IS called "No Reflection" and the video features a mirror that is also a book- DURRRR, lol. Literature figures largely into this album, so there's something there I'm sure. But I'm tired and it's time for bed.

On another note, I like how the Manson figure at the table resembles his image of Lewis Carrol from the Phantasmagoria poster.

Sans Agendum
04-04-2012, 11:39 PM
^Yeah, lol. I'd pretty much say it's a slam dunk at this point. Although I'd be happy to hear any other analysis that ties in the video's content, structure, and the themes established by the actual lyrics and song title. I'm open to the idea that the other female figures at the table are elements of Manson's psyche. As for the door, no. The mirror book is more interesting. I don't know what a satisfactory explanation for that is. It seems to be a hugely intentional bit just sort of snuck in for a moment like the gold hand from PHIH. I mean the song IS called "No Reflection" and the video features a mirror that is also a book- DURRRR, lol. Literature figures largely into this album, so there's something there I'm sure. But I'm tired and it's time for bed.

On another note, I like how the Manson figure at the table resembles his image of Lewis Carrol from the Phantasmagoria poster.

^Right. Manson resembles Manson. Very astute of you. How do you know the hair/costume differences are not ALSO 'scripty fuckups'? For someone so dead set on making YOUR interpretation the only valid one you sure do give yourself a LOT of wiggle room. Nevermind though. Believe what you want AND be an intolerant dick towards other interpretations. Whatever.

As for the mirror Bible pages...

James 1:23-24

23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like.

21Faces
04-05-2012, 12:00 AM
That passage is cool. I also like the part where it has absolutely nothing to do with anything else we can see in the video, or with the song's lyrics.


^Right. Manson resembles Manson. Very astute of you. How do you know the hair/costume differences are not ALSO 'scripty fuckups'?

That is so stupid it should not even merit a response. Manson is in completely different wardrobe with a completely different haircut featured exclusively inside the bathroom and nowhere else. It is one of three distinct looks he employs in a) the table scene b) the performance scene, and c) the bathroom scene. Each look is isolated to those respective sets, so no, it isn't a fucking continuity screwup. The different looks between "b" and "c" indicate that the two scenes are not immediately sequential- no matter how much you need them to be in order to project whatever personal meaning you're desperate to see in this.

But you already know that. So why don't you stop being such a little troll?

Tigger
04-05-2012, 12:01 AM
i have a question here
manson is locking the door at 1'23"
http://photoupload.org/images/94174045145284325696.jpg
but the door is unlocked at 3'23"
http://photoupload.org/images/51531951286744860244.jpg
at 3'27",the dor is locked again
http://photoupload.org/images/95248128391090232874.jpg
why?what does it mean?

Isn't the best answer to this to simply say:

Why in the video for 'No Reflection' does it show show a door being locked and then 2 minutes later unlocked, then 14 seconds later locked again? No reason.

=)

Sans Agendum
04-05-2012, 12:37 AM
That passage is cool. I also like the part where it has absolutely nothing to do with anything else we can see in the video, or with the song's lyrics.



I brought this up in the no reflection analysis thread also and it's pretty fitting with the lyrics. Manson KNOWS the Bible but does not necessarily follow it. In the video he is reading from the Bible, which is pretty much against consorting with spirits or acting as a medium. Then he goes into performing the seance/exorcism. Thus he is saying he is like the man who forgets what he looks like described in the passage because he knows 'the word' but does not follow it. No reflection. Here you have an image of the Bible being portrayed as a mirror. Are you really this dense?



That is so stupid it should not even merit a response. Manson is in completely different wardrobe with a completely different haircut featured exclusively inside the bathroom and nowhere else. It is one of three distinct looks he employs in a) the table scene b) the performance scene, and c) the bathroom scene. Each look is isolated to those respective sets, so no, it isn't a fucking continuity screwup. The different looks between "b" and "c" indicate that the two scenes are not immediately sequential- no matter how much you need them to be in order to project whatever personal meaning you're desperate to see in this.

But you already know that. So why don't you stop being such a little troll?


What is 'stupid' is saying something doesn't merit a response and then writing a paragraph long RESPONSE.

The only difference between the bathroom and kitchen scenes in terms of Manson's wardrobe is his Jacket being removed in the bathroom scenes, which you see him buttoning back up as he emerges from the bathroom BACK into the kitchen where everyone has died. Your interpretation is witty but that's about it. Just another way of making context out of the chaos of images presented.

Please drop your little vendetta against me and grow up. Whatever you have against me is old news so get over it. You're just being needlessly rude and argumentative because you think you know me or something.

21Faces
04-05-2012, 01:16 AM
I brought this up in the no reflection analysis thread also and it's pretty fitting with the lyrics. Manson KNOWS the Bible but does not necessarily follow it. In the video he is reading from the Bible, which is pretty much against consorting with spirits or acting as a medium. Then he goes into performing the seance/exorcism. Thus he is saying he is like the man who forgets what he looks like described in the passage because he knows 'the word' but does not follow it. No reflection. Here you have an image of the Bible being portrayed as a mirror. Are you really this dense?




What is 'stupid' is saying something doesn't merit a response and then writing a paragraph long RESPONSE.

The only difference between the bathroom and kitchen scenes in terms of Manson's wardrobe is his Jacket being removed in the bathroom scenes, which you see him buttoning back up as he emerges from the bathroom BACK into the kitchen where everyone has died. Your interpretation is witty but that's about it. Just another way of making context out of the chaos of images presented.

Please drop your little vendetta against me and grow up. Whatever you have against me is old news so get over it. You're just being needlessly rude and argumentative because you think you know me or something.
At the table Manson is wearing a black blazer, white shirt with unbuttoned cuffs that extend past his wrists, a black tie, and his hair is slicked straight back. He is wearing the exact same thing at the end of the video, except he is buttoning is blazer. In the bathroom he wears a buttoned up black blazer over a black shirt. So no. Give it up.

I disregard what you say, because criticism and analysis is actually a skill? It's kind of an art in itself? You know? People go to school to actually learn how to do this well- to understand the art that other people create. It's important. The point here is to attain a greater understanding of the work, and the artist's intent should figure rather largely into that. The difference between what you say and what I say is that you are completely invested in the meaning you project into the work- and that will be very obvious to anyone who knows anything about who you are and what you believe.

I don't do that, because I don't care what it means. I'm interested in finding out what Manson is saying with this, but I'm not really looking for him to be saying any particular thing. So I will go- objectively, in whatever direction the work seems to point. We do this by focusing on the actual material, and looking at past WORK (not our INTERPRETATIONS of past work) to provide context and offer some parameters for where we might focus our attention. If I see an explanation that resonates strongly with any of my personal opinions and ideologies then I will immediately be suspicious of it because I want to consciously keep my biases in check.

For example, without any other information- if "No Reflection" were just a title, we might wonder if we're getting another vampire song. There's a precedence for that. He did a whole album that prominently featured vampire imagery. Not a whole album in which we INTERPRET vampire imagery, but one in which vampire imagery is literally featured- lyrically, visually, discussed in interviews, etc.*

So again, if "No Reflection" were just a title, what would compel you to seek out a biblical reference? What exactly points you in that direction? If it were just a title, and our options were "James 1 v. vampires" the case for James 1 would not be a strong one. It just so happens, however, that we do have lyrics. And it turns out that based on the lyrics the case for vampires isn't such a slam dunk either. Maybe someone out there REALLY loved Eat Me, Drink Me. Maybe they'd love it if this song were about vampires too. Doesn't matter. It isn't.*

Neither is it about James 1. There is no specific word or phrase in the lyrics that point to James 1 any more than to vampires no matter how much you want there to be.*Now, I can understand how seeing the mirror bible pages in the video got your dick hard, but before you mess your pants let me point out that there are also mentions of mirrors in Exodus, Isaiah, Job, and 1 Corinthians. And again, absolutely nothing in the lyrics or visuals from the video point to any of the other mirror passages in the Bible any more than James 1. The fact that YOU want James 1 to have significance here does not give it significance. If you had written this song and directed this video, sure! But you didn't. So how you feel about this doesn't really matter at all.


And you are right, I don't like you. But that isn't really the point here, because I haven't been writing about how much I don't like you and why. I'm discussing your interpretation and why it's so horribly incorrect. You can cry about it or prove me wrong.

Whisky And Speed
04-05-2012, 02:21 AM
Manson is a bad bad creepy uncle. :(

hahaha,This! but I say a creepy dad not uncle.

Whisky And Speed
04-05-2012, 02:25 AM
On another note, I like how the Manson figure at the table resembles his image of Lewis Carrol from the Phantasmagoria poster.

a good notice .

Whisky And Speed
04-05-2012, 02:31 AM
i still can not understand..................................when he lock the door,these girls are alive.when these girls die,the door is unlocked.................what the hell...........................

because he intended to kill the girls and at the same time he wants to save them from death.Multiple personalities.

Ich_Bin_Du
04-05-2012, 03:35 AM
I love it!
Especially the ending, reminded me of Ophelia so much, particularly of this new interpretation:

http://www10.pic-upload.de/05.04.12/5krzasnnhcgt.jpg (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-13635332/ophelia-in-water.jpg.html)

Golden Eel
04-05-2012, 03:40 AM
Especially the ending, reminded me of Ophelia so much

I got a Hamlet feel from it too, but I figured someone would come in and tell me how shallow that was.

Hazekiah
04-05-2012, 03:45 AM
http://www.discover-aai.com/images/shallow-water.png

Shangri-LIE
04-05-2012, 05:47 AM
I really liked the video and have my own interpertations, but I don't want to pry too deep into things until I hear the entire album in its entire context. I think it's easy here for people to watch it a few times, notice a few things, then try to extract and augment any sort of meanings from it. Not that the reviews haven't been interesting to read. Even though I didn't watch it with a magnifying glass or with the same intentions of dissecting it that some others have, I can say that I enjoyed it. That is all for now.

Esotericdreamer
04-05-2012, 06:27 AM
^ Sometimes though you just have to say "There's no meaning in this phone book." and start prank calling.

Hazekiah
04-05-2012, 07:30 AM
^ Haha, nice.


Isn't the best answer to this to simply say:

Why in the video for 'No Reflection' does it show show a door being locked and then 2 minutes later unlocked, then 14 seconds later locked again? No reason.

=)

An elegant solution, to be sure! Well played, my good sir.

It's also worth pointing out that the door is boarded shut as early as 30 seconds in, although it's apparently an out-of-continuity shot from the aftermath of their family toast where everyone begins to reeling from their family toast. So certain parts of the story are clearly shown out of order, which mostly appears to be a stylistic choice more than errors, allowing us to get to the sexy dancing straight away. No problem there!

It's just a sampling of everything sprinkled throughout the video along the course of the rest of the otherwise chronological narrative, that's all. It's a very common technique to "hook" the audience.

So mostly I think that's what's going on with the out-of-continuity stuff. Except that last shot with the door unbarred. I'd imagine that was just a simple error and Manson probably came in through it without boarding it back up before filming.

Could be more to it, though...it's certainly worth examining and contemplating.


Manson is in completely different wardrobe with a completely different haircut featured exclusively inside the bathroom and nowhere else. It is one of three distinct looks he employs in a) the table scene b) the performance scene, and c) the bathroom scene. Each look is isolated to those respective sets, so no, it isn't a fucking continuity screwup.

Not entirely true...Manson's wearing the black-shirt wardrobe from the bathroom scene for the family song-and-dance footage as well. I don't think it's a continuity error, mind you, just thought it was worth making the small correction.

:)

21Faces
04-05-2012, 11:40 AM
You can cry about it or prove me wrong

This is so rude and long-winded with nothing to say and full of so many baseless and intentional insults against me that I'm not even going to bother pointing out how.
Or because it isn't. You've evidently opted for the former.
~
TJ mentioned Persephone, and it would be cool of there was a connection there, but I'm not seeing much aside from the shot at the very end. Someone else mentioned Echo and Narcissus, which is a cool idea given the song's title:

"Then, Narcissus "tired from both his enthusiasm for hunting and from the heat" rests by a spring, and whilst drinking, "a new thirst grows inside him" and he is "captivated by the image of the beauty he has seen" and falls deeply in love with "all the things for which he himself is admired." He then wastes away with love for himself, echoing the manner in which Echo did earlier on. A while later his body is gone, and in its place is a narcissus flower." It would really seal the deal if there was even a single flower in the video. Are the other females in the video visual "echoes," while Manson is a perversion of Narcissus? That's kind of cool, maybe.

Adonai
04-05-2012, 02:30 PM
I'm not seeing Narcissus anywhere in there, but perhaps it does relate to the song on some level? I don't know but I do like the idea that Manson has no equal. I can't remember who on here suggested that right now, but it kind of makes sense.

Although the first time I heard the title I immediately thought of a ghost or a vampire. I suppose it still reminds me that in some way.


I could have sworn I just saw a "666" in the fire. I think I am just intoxicated right now though. lol

Dronepool
04-05-2012, 10:27 PM
BTW just thought of something, you know how some fans claim that his albums are reflections of the girls he dates? Well they're all dead here.

Shangri-LIE
04-06-2012, 06:39 AM
Dronepool - Other than putting something else more elaborate together, even though I am against looking too deeply into things as of yet, I was thinking in that same direction. He's always had women he considers twins, that he has drawn from in order to create his art and now he has nothing but himself to either reincarnate into something either to reinvent or destroy only himself with. I'm working on something, but yeah that is the direction I am going in.

Edit - Notice to all participants; If I cite anything that has been observed by you and add onto it within my upcoming analysis, ...even though I don't really believe in analyzing this too much other than out of boredom and for fun, don't take it as plagiarism. There've been some really good perspectives in here that I want to extemporize upon.

AssetReign
04-06-2012, 07:02 AM
BTW just thought of something, you know how some fans claim that his albums are reflections of the girls he dates? Well they're all dead here.

The females all die in this video, but we haven't heard nor seen the rest of the album so it's premature to draw any conclusions from it.

Altho I will say I think how they die has personal meaning for him.

ThreeEyedGod
04-06-2012, 07:12 AM
No one has made anything of the apparent tremors that happen in the vid?

Those are usually considered harbingers of the rapture in the Abrahamic religions.

Shangri-LIE
04-06-2012, 09:29 AM
This isn't a full analysis, but just something I wanted to add.

http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/1063thebuzz.com/files/2012/04/manson.png

"In her wanderings we hear from time to time an undertone of the deepest sorrow, but never the agonized cry of fear or horror which makes madness dreadful or shocking. And the picture of her death, if our eyes grow dim in watching it, is still purely beautiful".

Right from the beginning we see the flood beginning at the dinner table where an obviously disturbed woman is anticipating something "violent coming". I was going to do a full work up on this video but I believe that a lot of ground has been covered already and all I can do is add my own observations, touch on some things that haven't been brought up, and express how I perceived it. None of it is really intended to be enlightening, or to illicit an "omg that is brilliant, you're so clever" response. After all, if you over magnify something with too much intensity
it just becomes more of an anomalous than before anyway.

This citation was taken from the "No Reflection" lyrics thread, and it was Sans Agendumwho deciphered the woman speaking at the beginning to be saying "Reflections of yourself are in your audience so find yourself in them". That made me think of Doppleherz where he states "I want you to know as you are listening to this that you are nothing but a screen that I project my images of sorrow, pain, suffering, sex and the brief glimpse of happiness I get from the misery of those who sit in the theatre that this screen exists that they will feel when they listen".

As I watched it, it obviously does have a cult suicide theme to it. That is pretty straightforward. What I found interesting is when he imitates a noose with his guitar strap, to me, that was him alluding to him vowing to die alone with his art, his music, but knowing that he'll never be able to be completely betroth to anyone else except for what he creates and what he destroys, although there is some remorse there. I think that, as I mentioned before in response to Drone, that it was about him not having a "twin". It's a divorce from his "Frankenstein's" so to speak. There is no woman centralized as an influence for this record. It is Manson purging himself of all other distractions.

Sans Agendum
04-06-2012, 09:54 AM
This citation was taken from the "No Reflection" lyrics thread, and it was MMT who deciphered the woman speaking at the beginning to be saying "Reflections of yourself are in your audience so find yourself in them".



That was me actually. A decent review otherwise. :)

:O<"I sed dat") http://www.providermodule.com/forum/showthread.php/4033-Voices-During-The-Beginning-Of-No-Reflection?p=100566&viewfull=1#post100566

Go ahead and compare the times. :)

Shangri-LIE
04-06-2012, 10:19 AM
That was me actually. A decent review otherwise. :)

:O<"I sed dat") http://www.providermodule.com/forum/showthread.php/4033-Voices-During-The-Beginning-Of-No-Reflection?p=100566&viewfull=1#post100566

Go ahead and compare the times. :)

Ok. Cool. :) I shall amend.

divikernes
04-10-2012, 04:11 PM
It means someone missed a prop. Or that MM is magic.

Manson was the DARK MAN don't forget it.

petticoat
04-10-2012, 04:25 PM
It is Manson purging himself of all other distractions.


I strongly get this impression also. As mentioned in my prior post, it's like sitting around the table in someone's (Manson's) brain watching pieces of his ego/personality getting killed off one by one. The camera is situated in such a way as to bring the viewer into the scene as a participant. Other end of the table, etc.

Mugwump
04-24-2012, 03:36 PM
I think this video is about Manson's alcoholism and how it has destroyed his relationships.

AssetReign
04-24-2012, 04:29 PM
I think this video is about Manson's alcoholism and how it has destroyed his relationships.

I don't. Alcohol was never really his substance abuse issue, nor did it play much of a role in destroying his relationships.

Whisky And Speed
04-24-2012, 04:33 PM
I don't. Alcohol was never really his substance abuse issue, nor did it play much of a role in destroying his relationships.

It was Coke.

Sans Agendum
04-24-2012, 04:35 PM
I don't. Alcohol was never really his substance abuse issue, nor did it play much of a role in destroying his relationships.
HAHAHAHAHAH. You're joking right? Drinking Absinthe every day isn't alcoholism? OOOOO-KAY!

AssetReign
04-24-2012, 04:35 PM
It was Coke.


Pretty much, but the short stint in rehab back in 2004 was for prescription pain killers.

Whisky And Speed
04-24-2012, 04:45 PM
Absinthe contains about 66% of alchohol.

AssetReign
04-24-2012, 04:49 PM
Absinthe contains about 66% of alchohol.

He doesn't drink nearly as much of that as he wants people to believe. He seems to carry around the glass more than anything. In most photos you see of him holding a glass of absinthe you can tell the amount in the glass never seems to change. That orange one he drinks is nasty.

Mugwump
04-24-2012, 04:52 PM
I don't. Alcohol was never really his substance abuse issue, nor did it play much of a role in destroying his relationships.
You're right. If anything, drinking more would have probably saved his marriage.


He doesn't drink nearly as much of that as he wants people to believe. He seems to carry around the glass more than anything. In most photos you see of him holding a glass of absinthe you can tell the amount in the glass never seems to change. That orange one he drinks is nasty.
You must spend a lot of time around him. So I believe your opinion now.

AssetReign
04-24-2012, 04:55 PM
You're right. If anything, drinking more would have probably saved his marriage.

I don't know if anything would have saved his marriage, but for Dita to go into it thinking she was going to change him was naive to say the least.

Mugwump
05-03-2012, 09:44 PM
Actually, upon deeper thought and reflection (hehe), my "No Reflection" video analysis - "Manson wanted a spooky, Born Villain feel to it."

brian219
05-04-2012, 11:10 AM
Recently re-reading the Long Hard Road Out of Hell, one of Manson's rejected poems made the No Reflection video come to mind:

When the fork eats the spoon,
and the knife stabs
the face reflected in the plate,
dinner is over.

AssetReign
05-04-2012, 11:20 AM
When the fork eats the spoon,
and the knife stabs
the face reflected in the plate,
dinner is over.

Ain't that the truth?