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Koko
04-11-2012, 02:28 AM
The latest Marilyn Manson albums have been influenced to some degree by Charles Baudelaire and his book. I think there are a lot of references and similarities between them and their work and this are some of them. Feel free to post other ideas, I’d love to read them.

The title 'The Flowers of Evil' is a dichotomy, something that Marilyn Manson has represented during his career. How can evil flowers sprout from the earth? The word 'flower' denotes beauty, love, feminine, paradise, everything opposed to the notion of evil. The flower is no longer a symbol of earth and nature, it symbolizes society and events within it: flowers are given to show love and gratitude, support when someone is sick, sadness and respect when we fill graves with them. The use of the flower in society clearly shows how contradictory the title is, it alludes to something absurd, wrong, infernal.

Nobody knows exactly what the flowers of evil are in the context of the book, one interpretation is that the flowers represent the women in Charles Baudelaire life, they inspired him to make the most beautiful creations, as well as the most pathetic verses. The original title of the work was 'Les Lesbiennes' and it was changed later to 'Les Fleurs du Mal', thus connecting flowers with women. His vision of love was strictly related to evil, or sin, since he was raised a catholic during the time of romanticism. He seems to find women essential but despicable at the same time and part of his work represents this, a man divided between the needs of his heart and the demands of his body, someone who rejects love and projects pain.

Eat Me, Drink Me and The High End Of Low have been described as romantic, they are heavily inspired by women as much as Les Fleurs Du Mal. They show different sides of love, Eat Me, Drink Me is affectionate/passionate and The High End Of Low is destructive/vengeful. The two polar opposites of love that plague Baudelaire’s work.

Another interesting aspect of the title is 'Mal', it has a similarities with 'Mâle'. If fleurs are a symbol of women and mal of a man, then the title could be referencing the relationship between a man and several women.

Marilyn Manson’s love life with different women and use of drugs and alcohol has been source of interest and controversy in the media. A polygamous relationship between a man and different women can be seen during the music video for No Reflection.

Les Fleurs du Mal is divided into 6 parts, we get so see the poet, disgusted with life, who is torn between good and evil and battling weariness and desperation. He starts a love-hate relationship with alcohol, drugs and sex and chooses the evil path of nature, he turns destructive and ultimately gets trapped in all of this and ultimately dies.

1. Spleen and Ideal. The poet gets attracted by the ideal and relapses on boredom. He gets interested in the double attraction between good and evil in every man.
2. Parisian Scenes. The poet contemplates society and finds the essential problem of the human condition: the evil in human nature.
3. Wine. The poet escapes to the artificial paradises (intoxication with drugs and alcohol, dreams and poetry) conducting to failure.
4. Flowers of Evil. The poet gets destructive and willingly embraces the evil nature and depravation of life. He drowns in perversion to extract his poetry as a last resource against weariness, the passing of time and salvation.
5. Revolt. The poet goes against divinity, destiny and his own life. Desperation rules his life and does not find a way out.
6. Death. The poet aspires to repose, sinks in the unknown but still with hope to get out. The protagonist dies and starts a new great journey.

Eat Me, Drink Me is a very feminine album. It has a lot of references to vampirism, as the poem 'Les Métamorphoses Du Vampire' from the book. The High End Of Low also talks about society and its problems and the mundanity of life, things that can be found in the first two sections of Les Fleurs Du Mal. Born Villain has a lot of references to flowers (ground, gardener, digging, growing, dirt) and the imagery seems to contrast between black and white, colors often associated with good and evil. The lyrics talk about destruction, fate, perversion, evil nature, death and the start of a new life; those are center topics in the last three sections of Les Fleurs Du Mal.

Scorpion
04-11-2012, 08:03 AM
Great. I noticed how Flowers of Evil is right after The Gardener. Wonder how they connect to each other. I think he's speaking very metaphorically again (gardener = himself taking care of the flowers [woman]), and I like it.

TheTeletubbieFlasher
04-11-2012, 03:59 PM
My interpretation of the gardener was tossing a salad! I guess that would of been the chef. Hm. Maybe he is pruning out a few weeds in his life. :D

Shangri-LIE
04-11-2012, 05:01 PM
My interpretation of the gardener was tossing a salad! I guess that would of been the chef. Hm. Maybe he is pruning out a few weeds in his life. :D

He gonna kill dem weeds.

Necrof
04-12-2012, 10:55 AM
Reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a86QgZVgbyQ

KaeS
04-12-2012, 12:15 PM
As a french teacher specialized in literature and especially nineteenth century poetry, I can't agree when you said that Les Fleurs du Mal could refers to woman. It's one interpretation, but more basically, we know that the Flowers of Evil are the poems themselves. It's a common metaphor, and Theophile Gautier, to whom Baudelaire autograph his book, used it in "Emaux et Camées".
In the beginning of the book, Baudelaire offers to Gautier these "fleurs maladives", which could be translated by "ill flowers".


The parallel between the book and BV has to be done, but we have to go further.
On a first level, it is clear that Manson uses the metaphor of flower in The Gardener and The Flowers of Evil.

I noticed although those parallels:
- In the end of Overneath the path of misery, there is the common theme of De Profundis Clamavi. Wilde wrote one, but Baudelaire did too.
- Hey Cruel World could refer to Le Couvercle, but not sure
- Children of Cain could be a reference to Abel et Cain

Whisky And Speed
04-12-2012, 03:13 PM
Another interesting aspect of the title is 'Mal', it has a similarities with 'Male'.

I really love your interpretation and analyses and your topic is quite very interesting.however the phrase I quoted is farfetched much since the word mal in french means literally bad not anything else .Moreover, the title of the novel is not translated literally because les fluers du mal means literally the flowers of the bad not evil because the french word for evil is mechant not mal but since the literal translation doesn't work in most cases therefore it was translated this way.

thank you for your interesting topic.

Koko
04-12-2012, 07:44 PM
Great. I noticed how Flowers of Evil is right after The Gardener. Wonder how they connect to each other. I think he's speaking very metaphorically again (gardener = himself taking care of the flowers [woman]), and I like it.

Those two titles together were the ones that grabbed my attention the most when the titles were revealed, can’t wait to hear them and how they relate.

Koko
04-12-2012, 07:45 PM
As a french teacher specialized in literature and especially nineteenth century poetry, I can't agree when you said that Les Fleurs du Mal could refers to woman. It's one interpretation, but more basically, we know that the Flowers of Evil are the poems themselves. It's a common metaphor, and Theophile Gautier, to whom Baudelaire autograph his book, used it in "Emaux et Camées".
In the beginning of the book, Baudelaire offers to Gautier these "fleurs maladives", which could be translated by "ill flowers".


The parallel between the book and BV has to be done, but we have to go further.
On a first level, it is clear that Manson uses the metaphor of flower in The Gardener and The Flowers of Evil.

I noticed although those parallels:
- In the end of Overneath the path of misery, there is the common theme of De Profundis Clamavi. Wilde wrote one, but Baudelaire did too.
- Hey Cruel World could refer to Le Couvercle, but not sure
- Children of Cain could be a reference to Abel et Cain

Yes, the flowers being a reference to women, and the book being inspired by them, is just one interpretation, I decided to mention it because I feel it relates more to the context in which Eat Me, Drink Me and The High End Of Low were written.

I honestly don’t know as much about the topic, I’ve only read the book twice, but I decided to write this because of the parallels I found, and also to encourage more analysis from other members, because there are a lot of thing to be said about this topic.

I hope you or someone else with more knowledge of the topic than me, does a more detailed analysis, it is really interesting and I’d love to read it.

Koko
04-12-2012, 07:45 PM
I really love your interpretation and analyses and your topic is quite very interesting.however the phrase I quoted is farfetched much since the word mal in french means literally bad not anything else .Moreover, the title of the novel is not translated literally because les fluers du mal means literally the flowers of the bad not evil because the french word for evil is mechant not mal but since the literal translation doesn't work in most cases therefore it was translated this way.

thank you for your interesting topic.

Thank you! I did a mistake there, but I actually meant “mâle” the French word for male, the pronunciation is similar to mal. It was just an interesting idea.

I agree, the translations often create confusion, I read the book in Spanish, since that’s my native langue, I’m sure they were a lot of things missing because of the translation from French to Spanish, but it was a great read.

Koko
04-12-2012, 07:48 PM
Reminds me of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a86QgZVgbyQ

Awesome video and song!

DrClitoris
04-22-2012, 02:50 AM
I just need to ask, did anyone else understand The Gardener as talking about a pedophile? :S

Whisky And Speed
04-22-2012, 02:51 AM
I just need to ask, did anyone else understand The Gardener as talking about a pedophile? :S

No!

Sans Agendum
04-25-2012, 08:54 AM
I just need to ask, did anyone else understand The Gardener as talking about a pedophile? :S

Not in the slightest. It seems more to be dealing with trying to rear somebody to be who you want them to be and it not going as planned because of influences beyond one's control.

iggy
04-25-2012, 11:45 PM
Not in the slightest. It seems more to be dealing with trying to rear somebody to be who you want them to be and it not going as planned because of influences beyond one's control.

So basically his marriage. It's song number 27 about his failed marriage of a whopping one year.

Fav
04-26-2012, 03:07 AM
What a beautiful analysis, Koko! I haven't read Baudelaire's book, but most of what you have written seems to hit the nail right on the head of what he was aiming for. Your connection to the No Reflection video was also remarkable - also note how the women drink some sort of drink... perhaps it is connected to #3 Wine?


It's refreshing to read something well thought-out such as this. Thanks again.

Eternal
04-28-2012, 08:42 AM
Has anyone tried to decipher what's being said during the intro to Flowers Of Evil? I hear voices all throughout the intro and think I hear him say "this world" at the end of a sentence a couple of times...

Elizabeth Casto
12-01-2012, 03:42 PM
you know it reminds me of the pink floyd flower thing too but with his fluers of his paintings.

blue angel
12-02-2012, 02:35 PM
Reminds me of this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a86QgZVgbyQ
This really does wildly interpret Charles Baudelaire and his book and Manson's work, kind of an evolved telling if brought all together.
Nice!

The Wax Gentleman
12-02-2012, 05:51 PM
At the beginning of the song I hear the voices saying "The head of the united nations has declared war," which of course makes no sense at all, but some of those words might be correct.