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Fav
04-26-2012, 02:25 AM
This person does a good enough job of explaining something so I don't have to. And if you're stepping in here to troll, kindly find yourself a nice cactus to shove up your arsehole. It's okay to disagree - just don't disintegrate discussion into MansonUSA/Babalon-like stupidity.


http://i50.tinypic.com/35akolc.jpg



"I've had a lot of experience with the Bible, having gone to religious schools until I attended a public University. That said, I've thought a lot about Lucifer and his role in Christian mythology, and he really gets a bad rap.

First of all, the visual depictions of the pointy-haired devilish demon creatures torturing humans were entirely the conceptions of artists and writers centuries ago, such as Dante.

Lucifer was an angel who disagreed with God. His only real crime was challenging God's authority and supposed omniscience. For this, he was cast out of heaven along with other angels who agreed with him.

If you read the Bible closely, Lucifer's only actual behavior is to influence people to think for themselves and challenge what God tells them to do. He reminds them that they are not slaves to God's demands, and that they have free will. Many of the mentions of "Satan" in the Bible talk about him 'behind his back" if you will, and are not actual appearances by Lucifer himself.

This FB post makes a very good point inasmuch as the Serpent in the Garden (as Lucifer) only pointed out to Eve that she had free will, and to eat the fruit would mean she would actually become aware of her surroundings in stead of being a mindless drone. Eve had a choice.

This is what true Satanists are about, the worship of humanity and free will. They celebrate being human and everything it has to offer, whether it be intelligence, sexuality, independence, etc.

Personally, I'd much rather get behind a deity which encouraged me to think and make my own choices, rather than one that demands I follow his orders and acts like a three-year-old when I don't comply.

I really believe that Lucifer is supposed to be a mythological embodiment of that contradiction which so annoys me in Christianity: the reconciliation between free will and obeying God. "If your logic center kicks in and starts to question what the church tells you, that's 'Satan'! Satan is the one in the Bible who tells people to think for themselves. Sure you have free will, as long as it doesn't go against what we tell you to do." Barf."

- rainbowf00, reddit.com


And I posted this in this section in particular to vent against the stupidity of the masses who flock to Judeo-Christian values.

Abbeyjade
04-26-2012, 02:34 AM
So safe to say you guys are satanists then? (Laveyan)

Mi-CroMartie
04-26-2012, 02:40 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exWUeQ53ICg

hope this helps..

Fav
04-26-2012, 02:43 AM
So safe to say you guys are satanists then? (Laveyan)
Pretty typical response from someone with a username such as "mansons_bitch." Who is this "we"?

I resonate with LaVey's philosophy, but the discussion at hand is upholding Lucifer as a role model for the virtues exemplified in the above quote and picture, as pure metaphors or symbols. Anybody with half a brain realizes that Christianity is bullshit and that there is no such thing as God, but the very elements of Christianity still exist within the human animal - such as his need to deny carnal pleasures or uphold abstinence as a some sort of sick holy virtue.

However amongst the sheep are those who are not trapped in slave morality nor conformist psychological traps of going along with whatever you are told to do. God, in the above quote and picture, is but a metaphor, as is Lucifer and his group of rebellious angels. Most Marilyn Manson fans, through their connection with Manson's own ideas on life, understand that Christianity is a sick disease upon the world, but my point in this thread is that the religion is not the core problem - rather the repetitive patters of Judeo-Christian like philosophies. People are more content with doing as they are told, instead of questioning the established order, or looking at denying true desires as virtuous, instead of faggotry and lame.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exWUeQ53ICg

hope this helps..
I'm not going to discuss Satanism nor the Church of Satan on this thread because most of the participants will not understand what the religion is, however Shreck and Zeena, for the sake of conversation, I would like to add, are not members of the Church of Satan and are not Satanists.

If people could be kind enough to focus on the topic at hand, which is Lucifer as a symbolic role model.

Abbeyjade
04-26-2012, 03:10 AM
Yeah mate i understand you want to stick to the topic at hand but it was just a question, that was relatable to yours.
No need to get nasty about it. I also completely agree with what you are saying, just wish you could use a little more common courtesy. Sorry for any inconveniences.

Fav
04-26-2012, 03:17 AM
Yeah mate i understand you want to stick to the topic at hand but it was just a question, that was relatable to yours.
No need to get nasty about it. I also completely agree with what you are saying, just wish you could use a little more common courtesy. Sorry for any inconveniences.
My apologies. A sudden rush of idiots have decided to join this forum to bring it down with immature humor, I might have been a bit prejudgemental based on your username. But yes, personally I do identify as a Satanist - but I also identify as a person with black hair, music enthusiast, painter, writer, etc.

I'm just more interested in hearing what people have to say of Lucifer as a positive role model based on his role in Christian mythology.

Abbeyjade
04-26-2012, 03:22 AM
No problem at all, i understand how frustrating it is when people act like that.
I understand the username abuse aswell haha, one of those things that seemed like a good idea at the time.
I also identify myself as a satanist. I relate to certain parts of other religions but satanism is what is most relative to me.
Thanks for the apology though.

Fav
04-26-2012, 03:32 AM
I think at face value, most rational people can identify with Satanism because one of the most common phrases people say after reading The Satanic Bible is, "this is common sense, I agree with it." But within deeper layers of the materialistic and carnal philosophy, people start to realize that it truly is a celebration of the flesh and the animalistic celebration of life, and it can turn people away at that point.

However, as for Lucifer as a literary figure, I think a lot of people can relate to him and see him as a role model. Here is a person who doesn't sugarcoat things for you, holds no promises, but frees you (metaphorically speaking) from the ball and chain of "Xtianity."

Shangri-LIE
04-26-2012, 07:22 AM
This isn't in the context of the thread but I've always found it amusing those who hail Satan yet denounce God's existence. I don't have anything else to add to this thread to be honest. I just find anything such as sorcery, worship of any kind, and the attempted personification of mythological literary characters to be silly. It's not a lack of knowledge about this subject, as I've dated a Pentecostal Satanist before, but an apathy towards even caring to engage people on the subject as I find it daft and pointless.

Whisky And Speed
04-26-2012, 03:30 PM
Hi fav,

This topic is quite intresting to say at least and I promise you a constructive input.

I'm an atheist and don't believe in the literal existance of any god, devil, or angels.However, I agree with anton lavey on his position and opinion about satan.Satan in a symbol to the quest for knowlege , animal instincts,wild desires and rebelation against conforminty.I wish that there was a true literal satan to worship.If there was a real one I would like to be in the front of his army to fight this God who thought that he created a being that can think and choose then he tortures him in an everlasting hell for his choises.If there was one I would have served him in exchange with granting all my wishes to be true like what faust did , he sold his soul to satan in exchange with earthly pleasures.However, sadly enough satan in my opinion at least is a metaphor for us humans and our wildest inner minds and innermost desires.
There is a contadiction betwee a god who claims that he loves you and the whole human race yet when you don't choose him according to your mind which he did aboslutly created he tortures you in hell with satan.Btw, god created satan and gave him freedom and gave him a mind to think so why the hell to damn him and exterminate him out of heaven????.Therefore, the whole concept of a loving god and a creator god who gives you freedom yet tortures you for any choice doesn't please him is totally delusional.i have no idea how people keep faith despite all of these contradictions.

@favenris,forgive me my ignorance but I want to ask are you a theistic or laveyan satanist.

Hail satan .

Golden Eel
04-26-2012, 04:36 PM
So edgy.

Sans Agendum
04-26-2012, 05:45 PM
Satan only persuaded Eve to consume to fruit of knowledge in an attempt to drive a wedge between God and Men by proving them as disobedient as he was. It had nothing to do with assisting us. Also in the book of Job, Satan/Lucifer questions Job's devotion and requests that God test him to prove if he is truly devoted, which God does and Job passes with flying colors. He is accusing, not assisting.

Lucifer is not trying to enlighten or lift man up. He's just trying to accuse him of disobedience to drive a wedge between man and God.

ThreeEyedGod
04-26-2012, 06:34 PM
Lucifer was an angel who disagreed with God. His only real crime was challenging God's authority and supposed omniscience. For this, he was cast out of heaven along with other angels who agreed with him.

Challenge the authority of YOUR boss and see how long you can keep your job.
Challenge the authority of the police and see if you don't land in jail.


He reminds them that they are not slaves to God's demands, and that they have free will.

But GOD created man and is the alpha and the omega: they were supposed to answer to no one but him. HE totes was our keeper.



would mean she would actually become aware of her surroundings in stead of being a mindless drone. Eve had a choice.

What evidence does the bible you cite have that they were "mindless drones"?




Personally, I'd much rather get behind a deity which encouraged me to think and make my own choices
You could thank him once he is chewing you alive while demons chest rape you in the 8th layer of hell.


rather than one that demands I follow his orders and acts like a three-year-old when I don't comply.
He's your creator, if you don't like it tough cookies.
Again: see how long you keep your job if you don't follow orders.
Not following the established rules will have consequences: that is a fact of life.

Sans Agendum
04-26-2012, 07:46 PM
There was only ONE rule to be followed and they were free to do whatever they wanted besides that one thing. So basically EVERYTHING was free except, "Don't do this one thing". So critical thinking was already there, otherwise they wouldn't have been able to disobey. They were able to disobey because GOD gave them the ability to do so.

Fave has his wires crossed and is ignorant about the things he's trying to talk about. End of story.

Golden Eel
04-26-2012, 09:14 PM
I think the idea of 'role models' in general is silly. Though, if I were to choose one, it wouldn't be Lucifer.

Mugwump
04-26-2012, 09:21 PM
I think the idea of 'role models' in general is silly. Though, if I were to choose one, it wouldn't be Lucifer.

Coming from a mindless drone, this does not surprise me.

filthytothecore
04-26-2012, 09:49 PM
I look up to the idea of Lucifer quite a lot not in the xtian sense but in The Antiquarian way which viewed Him as the Son of the Roman God Aurua and as for his Title of Light bearer I see that as light in dark times as well as one of knowledge, Yes I am a Satanist and have read some of Lavey's work I can agree with a good number of his philosophy .

Sans Agendum
04-26-2012, 10:54 PM
I look up to the idea of Lucifer quite a lot not in the xtian sense but in The Antiquarian way which viewed Him as the Son of the Roman God Aurua and as for his Title of Light bearer I see that as light in dark times as well as one of knowledge, Yes I am a Satanist and have read some of Lavey's work I can agree with a good number of his philosophy .

This mostly comes from the idea of a link between Lucifer and Prometheus though. It's not exactly accurate. It's more of a play on words and hypothetical theologian links. If we're really talking about Lucifer here, his meaning was always that as a chief worshiper of God who so admired Him that he spent most his time reporting the misdeeds of man in attempts to convince God that they were unworthy. He's not on the side of mankind. The light he shed wasn't for guidance really so much as it was to reveal faults in man's character and integrity.

Remember that the ways of eternity are beyond the reach of man. Whatever is revealed only really SEEMS real or new but is just tastes of paradise. It can be beguiling, but in the end it's just ruinous garbage. Stay the path, or otherwise be shot in slow motion through the actions of intake that were better left avoided. Experience is the Mistress of Fools. Just a different and more difficult road to the same conclusion.

EDIT(The next morning) Wow, what was that last paragraph? I must have been REALLY sleepy.

bodies35
09-23-2012, 05:58 PM
@Favenris: I think you are on track with several of your ideas. It is pretty basic to us, but a lot of the realities surrounding "satan" "lucifer" and the bible are little understood. Many don't really know the origins of myths, their usage, and meanings, especially some Christians.


I won't delve into my ideas, but, about 10 years ago I read a document called "Digital Journey." It was the first time I encountered the concept of Lucifer as a symbol for knowledge. I am including the link, which I do not advocate the philosophy or writings. I present them for those that could read them without reading too much into them because they are kind of dogmatic, strange, or whatever.


This is an excerpt that is relevant:


"...in Paradise Lost, John Milton's secret hero is the
passionate, light-bearing archangel Lucifer. That outcast illuminator
discovers mighty purpose, drive, and power from beyond the
anticivilization -- from beyond a dark, boring "heaven" deceptively
masquerading as the kingdom of light. From outside that fraudulent
realm, Lucifer musters increasing power from the ceaseless torture and
futility inflicted upon him by that kingdom's cruel-and-vengeful
tyrant -- God.
Furthermore, by building his power through purpose and drive,
Lucifer gains endless secret victories over the never-ending
afflictions of an anticivilization heaven as portrayed in Albert
Camus' Myth of Sisyphus. Indeed, from Homer to Aeschylus to Sophocles
to Dante to Milton to Nietzsche to Camus to Rand, the protagonists
become heroes by overcoming the relentless afflictions of an
anticivilization. But, still, no mortal hero escapes the agonies,
declines, and death ultimately inflicted by an anticivilization. Even
immortal Hercules immolated himself to escape the anticivilization.
And, immortal Lucifer plunged into eternal fire to escape."

The document I believe was available only online in whole, while parts were published and sold as part of a larger manuscript. It is almost impossible to find online now that the author has passed away.

The chapters were titled: Invisible Illuminati, Overcoming the Evils of God and State, Seize the Power of Satan, Obliterate Truth, Immortality via High-tek/biotech, Brain-Digitizing Programs, and Only Atheists go to Heaven.

If you are to read the link, you must know that the word for their philosophy system, "Neo-Tech" means 'fully integrated honesty'. It is basically just reason free from religion. "Anticivilization" is their term for a predominantly religious society while the "civilization of the universe" is the proposed natural, business society. "Zon" is their metaphor of "man becoming god" and the basic belief is:

*do away with religion,
*promote business/science,
*work to become immortal/happy (on Earth),
*exercise free-choice not follow external authority,
and *money is mans true religion, etc.

They really go for using metaphors of Lucifer, Satan as a shock value, praising his values while dismissing God. They also label, of course, God as the bad guy.

This link is part of the unpublished version:

Digital Journey: Part Three (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/alt.irs.class-action/neo-tech$20lucifer/alt.irs.class-action/dyK7b4XdrYk/IK9MXetUBtEJ)

I may delete this post because it may be too "out there" for the Manson forum. to each his own. Some of the other chapters may actually be better but I am only listing the one link because it has the relevant text. It really seems a strong advocate of the Lucifer as a symbolic role model.
Actually, I will include one additional link to the chapter
"Only Atheists Go to Heaven (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!searchin/alt.irs.class-action/only$20atheists$20neo-tech/alt.irs.class-action/SHplYx_KOU0/g9UqaMW19_YJ)"
it is really unusual so who knows, maybe someone could find some parts interesting

Mexicanfiend
12-09-2012, 09:45 PM
It is funny how the concept of the Devil has evolved throughout the history of judaism and christianity.

"Demon" comes from the greek word "daimon" which literally means "spirit". All our ideas of Satan being the fallen, rebellious angel come from a book that, altough is not considered a part of the Bible, had a huge impact on both jews and christians: The book of Enoch. The history of Lillith, the Nephilim and Satan's decision to become the ultimate outcast can be found there. The prophet Daniel, Ezekiel and even Jesus quote it at certain points.

The serpent on the garden of Eden wasn't strictly "Satan", it's name was Samael, but not until medieval times both characters got mixed. In fact, the devil is mentioned quite a few times on the old testament, the most known one is located in the book of the prophet Isaiah, which mentions that he "saw the morning star falling quickly from the sky" (a reference to the planet Venus), which upcoming studies associated with Satan, hence the name "Lucifer" (a derivative name from the latin way of saying "morning star").

The devil takes some relevance in the new testament, when Jesus used to be tempted by him on the desert, as well with his power to cast demons out from the people's bodies. But still, there is no concept of hell whatsoever, because he only took away "impure spirits" out of normal dudes; like curing them from mental illneses, instead of demonic shadows in the way movies like "the exorcist" or "the exorcism of Emily Rose" describe. If anything, Jesus mentions that the ones that do not follow God's rules will burn in the everlasting fire, the Gehenna (Jerusalem's dump place). This idea will later be reworked by the church leaders in order to fit the concept of hell within the christian beliefs.

So, impure spirits evolved into these winged creatures with horns, whose sole purpose is to torment us and push us away from the righteous path. All of today's demons were actually old pagan gods: Beelzebub was actually Baal-Zeebou, a god from Fenice, same with Moloch, Marduk, Tiamat, Ishtar, Abraxas and the list can go on and on and on and on...

Is the Devil a role model? It depends. If you're an individual who likes to always question everything, that rebels towards any kind of authority, which always fights instead of passively recieving what is given to you, then yes. I take it more as an inspirational figure, the same way I take Jesus, Judas, Mary Magdalene, St. Peter and many other biblical characters, but in no way I could place it as a "role model" in my life because, despite what my devoted family and friends might say (some are even sure they've witnessed demonic possesions), I don't really believe in him.

┐Please to meet you? I wish you were real, you will never guess my name.

lux
12-11-2012, 12:11 AM
I wouldn't say that Lucifer is a 'role model' to me, but I do resonate with the Lucifer archetype, and have been studying it's parallels to my life since around 2002 or so now. It's a long story.

For me, it's more about wisdom and knowledge, and being my own 'bearer of light'. I find great pleasure in making my own way through life, and being and enjoying who and what I am even if it goes against what it considered 'right' and 'normal' to the masses. I care not that I have fallen in the eyes of others, as only I can determine what is right for me.

johncraze
02-10-2013, 11:53 AM
Well, one thing is for sure, the christian mythos would be one hell of a bore without him.

He's an archetype and a metaphor for me, and I'll go with the "Manson way" of viewing him, he's a villain, he steers up all the change and moves the story forward. Also I'm up with William Blake's vision of devils n' demons in his proverbs, they're creativity, while angels are stuck up overly rational beings.

violante
03-08-2013, 12:55 PM
i never really hated the One True G-D, but the god-of- the- people I HATED

crazybitch
03-17-2014, 01:43 PM
I am a bit in love with the idea of Lucifer. I mean, u can't have a perfect world without something to provoke questions, and if Evil or cruelty, Lucifer and Satan has a place and reason just like the idea of a human-like God and a consort of angels. But I do not think they are battling each other, I think in essence---we are all battling ourselves. Each aspect is like a face of one infinite myriad of possible thoughts. We have an Oppressive God, we have a compassionate God. We have an adversarial God called Satan. Christianity essentially made Evil into a "Godhead". Is it wrong to believe that Christianity has perverted history and truth or is there a bigger picture to this? When did we stop recording the prophets words in writing, because it is now considered unholy to be a prophet. U can only be a poet or an actress or a singer or artist. But no one's allowed to believe in anything anymore than their own skin.

I also am a bit perplexed as I had a premonition about the airplane that went missing on March 8, there were 2. But I was having visions of it and imagined I was shieldling it from evil, and asked for divine intervention.

I didn't even know this happened until later, but my dad was on a plane to Asia too. Ironic. I'd rather just hang onto the irony of this all. There's no reason to believe someone is completely crazy if they just have a "scientific brain imbalance which can be corrected" and when its corrected no longer appear ill. So let's call them recovered. Look. My psychiatrist never asked if I was better yet. This is life.

Lucifer is my role model.

Shock Hazard
03-17-2014, 02:46 PM
Lucifer is actually referred to as the 'Morning Star,' the giver of light and enlightenment, but not really worshipped like a god. He's a representation of exploration, non-violence and living every day to the fullest and understand the difference of right and wrong. He's actually a very positive figure for intellectualism and would be a good role model for children. A real symbol of humanism.

Christians and other misconstrued religions tend to distort his image with an association with 'Satan' who is really seen as nothing more than a personification of evil and perverseness, not of actual existence. But even Satan can be seen in better light.

Coma_White
07-31-2014, 07:13 AM
I always did relate to lucifer and to me he's great as a role model, because his message is (in my opinion) to always follow your own thoughts and beliefs and never suppress your real feelings and ideas for anybody. If he had enough balls to go against the self-proclaimed creator, and change the world so majorly, then why should we bow down to other mortal humans?

Always exercise your individuality and keep true to yourself.

Mexicanfiend
07-31-2014, 11:32 AM
Lucifer is actually referred to as the 'Morning Star,' the giver of light and enlightenment, but not really worshipped like a god. He's a representation of exploration, non-violence and living every day to the fullest and understand the difference of right and wrong. He's actually a very positive figure for intellectualism and would be a good role model for children. A real symbol of humanism.

Christians and other misconstrued religions tend to distort his image with an association with 'Satan' who is really seen as nothing more than a personification of evil and perverseness, not of actual existence. But even Satan can be seen in better light.

It is curious that the "morning star" reference comes from the book of Isaiah (14:12), in which he was originally refering to what we know today as planet Venus. Tons of translations and interpretations of the bible throughout the centuries is what transformed Luciferi in one of the principal names for the biggest enemy of god.

Shock Hazard
07-31-2014, 04:47 PM
Well yes, personal enlightenment and reason does tend to be an enemy of God with Lucifer being a symbolic carrier of it. This can be translated as an 'antichrist' as well. No matter what translation you're reading, God hates diversity of thought, beliefs and lifestyles therefore God hates us all. But Lucifer loves you!

MechanicalWood
07-31-2014, 10:25 PM
Satan is evil. That's all i'm gonna say y'all.

Manson15Marilyn
08-03-2014, 08:48 AM
You know, "satan" was merely a Hebrew word for anyone who opposes the Jews. The old testament itself is Jewish, after all. And "Lucifer" is an alteration of a Latin word which misunderstood the word being used in a mistranslation by a Greek person. Mistranslation is why the Jewish prefer to keep the book in hebrew and for Zionists to learn Hebrew.

'Satan' [ שָּׂטָן ] itself means adversary. But its also used as a verb, like this:


וַיִּחַר-אַף אֱלֹהִים, כִּי-הוֹלֵךְ הוּא, וַיִּתְיַצֵּב מַלְאַךְ יְהוָה בַּדֶּרֶךְ, לְשָׂטָן לוֹ; וְהוּא רֹכֵב עַל-אֲתֹנוֹ, וּשְׁנֵי נְעָרָיו עִמּוֹ.
But [Elohim] was was incensed at his going; so an angel of [JHVH] blocked/thwarted (or satan'd) [ לְשָׂטָן ] his path.

There is no singular character in The Tanakh, or the original Jewish version of what christians call the old testament, named Satan. In fact, its never used as a name; its only used as an adjective, an ordinary noun (nowhere is it used as a proper noun), and of course as a verb. In Job, there is one referred to as "the adversary", lit. 'the satan' [ גַם-הַשָּׂטָן ]. But as poetic writings, Job is arguably referring to the adversary of the story. But I think Job is the instance where most debate has occurred over the existence of the christian character, Satan.

Furthermore, 'Lucifer' was a mere title given Babylon as a whole, as Babylon was often referred to as a single figure by the Jewish deity. The title was [ הילל בן שחר ] which translates to "shining one, son of the morning", which in Greek looks like ἑωσφόρος (heōsphoros) which translates lit. 'bringer of dawn.' And that translates into latin as "luciferi" which in Olde English they used Lucifer as a name.

The story in Isaiah, Ch. 13 & 14 is Isaiah's message from his deity to the Babylonians about vengeance for all the things they'd done to the Iraelis. In context, the passage in question is referring to how Babylon had risen above all other nations because it was, as the Isaiah puts it, [ חוֹלֵשׁ עַל-גּוֹיִם ] a conqueror of nations [Isaiah 14.12]. But he is proclaiming that Babylon will fall because the Israelis believe in the true god and Babylonians are heathens, etc.

That said, I think "shining one" does have its symbolic reference when talking about Babylon. They were a beacon to the world, a lot of countries turned to them for trade and for protection, etc. They were to then as America is to now, pretty much. As for the symbolic role of the 'satans', I think honestly, its pretty straightforward in that regard.

GlitchyFlame
08-20-2014, 03:16 PM
I think that Lucifer is a great role model. While I do think that he is just as fictional as God himself, he did give humans thinking skills. God wanted everyone to be his mindless drone, and if you're not, you're going to hell.
Also that brings up the thought, what if hell was a paradise for "evil" souls? Like Heaven but with blackjack and hookers.

Two Faced Egg (23)
06-23-2015, 10:56 AM
The only clue I ever found , as to do with 'The Light Bringer' with the worries of those Who Believe Jesus Christ as their Savior & take the Holy Bible as Literal , is the 2 Corinthians 11:14 , paraphrased With style is that Even the Adversary would Cloak himself as an Angel Of Light - .. ( which , by the way really fascinates ..as a Reader of John Keel & Robert Anton Wilson ) Okay , the odd Paradox that provokes Me , is that the Holy Bible is filled with references to Light worship , Our whole culture actually , Pagan , Abrahamic , New Age , all embrace & trust Light , It's even worked itself into advertising products ! LIGHT Beer ? Wtf ? no-0ne really Questions it much .. Why is that ? only a few references to light have the MaSses worries .. Like Latin stuff Lol'Ss Illumianti ..okay the enlightened Ones .. Light workers , Luciferians , But go On to worship Light in all other areas >?? Solar Worship much folks ? Of course there are a few who bring up AstroTheology , Venus , Sol - Luc , Soo I Suspect this is the right thread for this Opinion of mine , Something I give lots of thought too , My Answer is Hell Fuckin No , Lucifer is not a God damn role Model of mine Lol'Ss Question things more Please .. ... TFE

YoureAlreadyHere
07-07-2015, 09:30 AM
the odd Paradox that provokes Me , is that the Holy Bible is filled with references to Light worship , Our whole culture actually , Pagan , Abrahamic , New Age , all embrace & trust Light , It's even worked itself into advertising products ! LIGHT Beer ? Wtf ? no-0ne really Questions it much ..


roflmfao!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!

YoureAlreadyHere
07-07-2015, 09:31 AM
I think that Lucifer is a great role model. While I do think that he is just as fictional as God himself, he did give humans thinking skills. God wanted everyone to be his mindless drone, and if you're not, you're going to hell.
Also that brings up the thought, what if hell was a paradise for "evil" souls? Like Heaven but with blackjack and hookers.

Your death's desire.

blue angel
07-07-2015, 10:23 AM
Lucifer as a role model, it just is. It will always be in influence and there is always duality in everything that is known and exists.

dskzero
07-07-2015, 11:04 AM
The figure of Lucifer is fairly contested in modern theology because he's a designated villan: he just challenged God in order to make an example about challenging a supreme being. Luciferism, conversely, puts Lucifer as the air entity: the one of leadership, wisdom.

It's up to the reader tho to figure out if that's worth anything. John MIlton made a great point with his novel, sadly it's a politically influenced plot and that kinda takes away from the poetry of having Lucifer as the first anti-hero in some sort of dystopic religious punk story. Certainly he's not a role model in the traditional sense, it's just intriguing to think of him as the guy who didn't give up.

Smoking Mirrors
01-10-2016, 12:06 AM
I can't claim to believe in nor deny a god or devil figure, in a sense of literal existence. I'm somewhere between "That's ridiculous, those are nothing more than stories meant to scare sheep into submission" and "Fuck god. 'Don't need a motherfucker lookin' down on me.' I'll be higher than that, you watch". Perhaps more, "Fuck the concept of god that is ingrained into children and raises them to become closed-minded, self-righteous, judgmental, and underlyingly fearful drones".
However, I do highly identify with the concept that Lucifer (reference to him is as a concept in this post) represents, the things he thought and did, his questioning of authority, acceptance of human nature, etc. I've gotten the "This is satan telling you these things, it wasn't god making you feel bad, god is loving and accepting, satan is evil and satan is the one telling you to think these things [free thought, questioning authority, controlling my own future, doing logically harmless things that are 'immoral' to Christians, etc]." It's absurd to me. True paranoia at its finest.
But anyway, back to Lucifer. I highly respect what he stands for. Those things that are so demonized by Christians, out of fear of thought. You think, you doubt, you question, you disbelieve. Natural progression that occurs when thought does. But, of course, it's just "satan infiltrating your mind and lying to you, the father of lies".
We need more Lucifer and less Lunacy.

Penance Sentence
01-11-2016, 06:40 PM
What I don't get is how Satanism has been turned upside down. It's become a symbol for Atheism, if anything. Atheists, generally, like to play footsies with 'Dark' stuff, while just using it as dark imagery as a symbol of a very basic Nihilism, against Religion and Society.

In a sense, these 'Satanists' aren't so different from Hippies, except Hippies used Drug culture as rebellion? I don't know, but these 'Satanists' aren't really so Satanic, and more love-inclined, which is fine, but it doesn't make sense for their belief sets.

Although, Love certainly leads to 'Evil,' and Drugs like LSD can have the same effect on your brain as chopping up Virgins in a woodchipper can.

Penance Sentence
01-11-2016, 09:53 PM
On a side note, I missed the times when LaVey Satanism was so new and edgy and exciting, and looking as it now, as so lame, boring, and mundane. They tried to make it theatrical, but it doesn't have the 'theatricality' of other philosophies/religions that make you feel as an active participant in discovering truth.

Most LaVeyan Satanists seem like absolute idiots, but LaVey himself always seemed cool. I think LaVey was more secretive than he let on. I liked his books, when I read them soooooooooooo long ago. Takes me back, just thinking about it.