PDA

View Full Version : Count To Six And Die "Click, Click, Click, Click, Click"



A Better Messiah
04-27-2012, 08:36 AM
I'm fairly positive that everybody on these boards is aware of "Breaking The Same Old Ground's" similarity to "Coma Black," but has anybody else noticed this interesting reference to "Count To Six and Die" from the title track of Born Villain?

"And you know I'm loaded
But not which chamber
Touch me and I'll go
Click click click click click
Click click click click click
Click click click click click"

I found it odd at first to repeat the word "click" five times, thrice, especially knowing that repetition in music is typically in fours (or eights). In "Count To Six and Die," we only hear the first five chambers of the gun click, leaving the listeners to either fill in the rest for themselves, or to assume that with the fireworks at the beginning of the album were the final chamber going off. Now here again in Manson's lyrics, we hear five clicks, repeated three times (needless to say, three has been a huge numerical symbol of Manson's). I could have sworn that somewhere in one of the songs on the album I heard a similar sound to the gun being loaded in "CTS&D", but that may have been the music box being wound in "Breaking The Same Old Ground." Regardless, I think that there may be some more grounds for this relation to The Triptych than just being a similarity.

Also, I have a fairly decent interpretation of Born Villain worked up, but I'll have to listen to it a few more times and make sure that I'm at least somewhat on the right track before making a fool of myself posting it on here. :p

dopedevil73
04-27-2012, 09:20 AM
after listening to the album over and over, i do wonder if some of the "music" was anything they had left over from the HW sessions

iamomega1227
04-27-2012, 10:13 AM
after listening to the album over and over, i do wonder if some of the "music" was anything they had left over from the HW sessions

This. I see BV as more HW than anything else. I wouldn't doubt if he reworked some material. One thing I keep trying to imagine is how the album would have sounded if he recorded it right after HW, vocally that is.

The Wax Gentleman
04-27-2012, 12:28 PM
I'm keen to hear your interpretation.

Atom
04-27-2012, 05:47 PM
I don't think it's a reference to "Count to Six and Die". I think it's just a reference to guns/suicide/murder and the chamber clicking at the beginning of "Pistol Whipped" is simply an obvious play on the title (Pistol Whipped).

VCR
05-06-2012, 08:08 AM
"And you know I'm loaded
But not which chamber
Touch me and I'll go
Click click click click click
Click click click click click
Click click click click click"


I was going to create a thread dedicated to these lyrics but I will just throw it here since you mentioned it in the topic. I find these lyrics contradictory as there are is no 15 chamber gun. So is he really loaded? I don't know much about guns, but arn't guns that have a cylinder limited to 6,8 or even 9 bullets when he mentions 15 here? Since he says "but not which chamber" he cannot be referring to a gun that is loaded via clips.

A Better Messiah
05-06-2012, 11:40 AM
I believe that the gun is only being "loaded," or "shot" five times. It is just repeated thrice. It would be a six-chamber pistol, like at the end of Holy Wood.

brian219
05-06-2012, 12:13 PM
I believe that the gun is only being "loaded," or "shot" five times. It is just repeated thrice. It would be a six-chamber pistol, like at the end of Holy Wood.

Exactly what I was thinking. The 5 clicks hint at the next trigger pull which, like on Holy Wood, would be the 6th.

So by repeating it three times there is an allusion to the 6th, 6th, 6th. :)

And since Holy Wood was followed by the fireworks, this may also be a reference to the hand grenade that never stops exploding.

Cringeon
05-06-2012, 12:56 PM
The end of Count to Six I believe is the shutter of cameras pitched down

Sans Agendum
05-06-2012, 04:12 PM
The end of Count to Six I believe is the shutter of cameras pitched down

Yeah but there's also 5 clicks followed by silence.

I'm thinking it has something to do with playing Russian Roulette and then stopping after five empty chambers because there is no longer a question of where the bullet is. So there's not really any risk or surprise in what the next move will bring. Or that WE don't know which chamber, but he does and it's a matter of trusting him that there is tension and stress involved and the perceived threat of severe injury, but he isn't really going to kill anyone.

EDIT: Or maybe it's a metaphor for Manson shooting blanks due to some sort of alcohol induced impotence. :p

brian219
05-06-2012, 04:43 PM
Well we know what the bullet is because it says in Love Song:

"she tells me I'm a pretty bullet"

Manson is the bullet and he's in the 6th chamber.

Sans Agendum
05-06-2012, 04:51 PM
Well we know what the bullet is because it says in Love Song:

"she tells me I'm a pretty bullet"

Manson is the bullet and he's in the 6th chamber.Except that he claims that HE goes 'click' and that's not the sound a loaded bullet makes.

brian219
05-06-2012, 07:35 PM
Except that he claims that HE goes 'click' and that's not the sound a loaded bullet makes.

I think it's more like SHE was the pistol and HE was the bullet, and now that the duality is gone Manson is becoming the gun, no longer "someone else's nigger." This is evolution.

2012
"I'd trade all I was worth to make myself in to
The handsomest gun and put the diamond bullet
Into your 404 error face."


2000
"I'm more like a silver bullet,
than I'm like a gun,
I'm not easy to hold.
I'm moving fast and if i stay inside your heart,
I'm certain that this will be the end of your life"

"The bullet:
I've got a crush on a pretty pistol
should I tell her that I feel this way?"
-------------
"She tells me I'm a pretty bullet
an Imitation Christ"

If you doubt that these verses are connected, consider that in Disengaged he says "handsomest gun" and in Love Song he says "pretty bullet." We are then left to wonder what the difference between a SILVER bullet and a DIAMOND bullet.

The Empirical Guy
05-06-2012, 07:54 PM
after listening to the album over and over, i do wonder if some of the "music" was anything they had left over from the HW sessions

I can't remember if it was Manson or Twiggy now, but I believe they said around the release of THEOL that their writing pretty much picked up where HW left off.


The end of Count to Six I believe is the shutter of cameras pitched down

Indeed, it continues to amuse me how many people fall in to the assumption it is a gun, which is in my opinion far more the point of the whole thing than any belief on what a gun sound could imply.

brian219
05-06-2012, 09:35 PM
Yup, it's all about cameras. Even in the Reflecting God when he says "shoot, shoot, shoot motherfucker" it's obviously about him being impatient at a photo session.

Sans Agendum
05-06-2012, 10:49 PM
In previous works he described himself at the bullet. On this album he is the gun.

Perhaps it has to do with "the Father" character giving birth to previous incarnations.

Father told us to be faithful.

"Born Villain is literally The Father of the Triptych." -NK

And again, yes there are what could be perceived as photo flashes at the end of CT6 but there's also empty chamber shots also. 5 of them... Come on guys.

Whisky And Speed
05-06-2012, 10:58 PM
In previous works he described himself at the bullet. On this album he is the gun.

Perhaps it has to do with "the Father" character giving birth to previous incarnations.

Father told us to be faithful.

"Born Villain is literally The Father of the Triptych." -NK

.

Why die while you can kill the father,dad is missing an 'E'.

brian219
05-07-2012, 07:35 AM
I think gun may mean god. Monkey-->man-->god. Kinda like in kubrick's 2001, where it begins with primates and ends with the birth of the star child.

Also, after thinking about it, I think that if silver bullets are for killing rapist werewolves, then surely diamond bullets are for killing gods.

Fav
05-08-2012, 05:47 PM
The end of Count to Six I believe is the shutter of cameras pitched down
Whoa, where did you find out about this? I've never heard about this.

AssetReign
05-08-2012, 06:01 PM
The end of Count to Six I believe is the shutter of cameras pitched down

Yep

brian219
05-08-2012, 07:36 PM
Hmmm....


There's a real arc on the record of trying very hard to change the world and realizing you can only change yourself, in the end of the album. And it poses that question with 'Count to Six and Die', which is the sound of what you might see as the end of the world, or the end of yourself. Alike the arcana of the Wheel Of Fortune, because I reinterpreted the tarot and the symbolism in it so often, and the Wheel Of Fortune in this case was a revolver Russian roulette. In the end of the album you hear that, and you never hear the final shot, because it's really about the question of breaking that cycle, you know, making a change. It has a few optimism despite how nihilistic it comes off at times.
Marilyn Manson, interview for Dot Music, 2000

http://vimeo.com/22036998

EDIT: bah, the video only works if you view it from the source page:
http://www.nachtkabarett.com/MarilynMansonArchives/Videos

AssetReign
05-08-2012, 07:45 PM
Aren't there camera (shutter) clicks at the beginning of Slo-Mo-Tion?

brian219
05-08-2012, 08:12 PM
Aren't there camera (shutter) clicks at the beginning of Slo-Mo-Tion?

Indeed. And the sound of the lens zooming.

I am curious where this talk of Count To Six and Die having slowed down camera clicks rather than revolver clicks came from. I'm not saying that it's not camera clicks, as that's entirely possible, but I am left to wonder why Manson said it was a revolver if it isn't. Very interesting since at least 3 posters seem to contradict with confidence what Manson said about that revolver representing the Wheel of Fortune in his tarot deck. Then there's the whole shoot/shot thing that DOES apply to both guns and cameras, which is a very Manson thing to point out. In fact, though I'm sure it won't be believed at this point, my first thoughts on Slo-Mo-Tion were "how fucking creepy would it be if this song were talking about a gun when he says 'everything is shot'?"

AssetReign
05-08-2012, 08:14 PM
Indeed. And the sound of the lens zooming.

I am curious where this talk of Count To Six and Die having slowed down camera clicks rather than revolver clicks came from. I'm not saying that it's not camera clicks, as that's entirely possible, but I am left to wonder why Manson said it was a revolver if it isn't. Very interesting since at least 3 posters seem to contradict with confidence what Manson said about that revolver representing the Wheel of Fortune in his tarot deck. Then there's the whole shoot/shot thing that DOES apply to both guns and cameras, which is a very Manson thing to point out. In fact, though I'm sure it won't be believed at this point, my first thoughts on Slo-Mo-Tion were "how fucking creepy would it be if this song were talking about a gun when he says 'everything is shot'?"

That was my bad. I misunderstood/misread the original posts. I thought we were talking about songs on Born Villain containing shutter clicks.

SysteMM
05-09-2012, 04:44 AM
t. In fact, though I'm sure it won't be believed at this point, my first thoughts on Slo-Mo-Tion were "how fucking creepy would it be if this song were talking about a gun when he says 'everything is shot'?"

I believe Manson reference making a video for Slo-Mo-Tion on that metal show, and discussed blowing heads off with shotguns?
So not unlikely at all.

Cringeon
05-09-2012, 05:42 AM
I know the gun shot in Ct6 is never heard, but the following sounds I always felt were camera shutters. Just tying in with the whole fame through death ideal with Holywood. I don't MM has ever said specifically what they were, but I seem to recall a lot of talk of it being cameras online when HW came out. I'll see if I can dig more info on it later.

Sans Agendum
05-09-2012, 11:34 AM
I know the gun shot in Ct6 is never heard, but the following sounds I always felt were camera shutters. Just tying in with the whole fame through death ideal with Holywood. I don't MM has ever said specifically what they were, but I seem to recall a lot of talk of it being cameras online when HW came out. I'll see if I can dig more info on it later.

When I first heard it I felt it may be intended to be other guns being fired. That perhaps the entire society was in the process of committing mass suicide in unison and that the main trigger clacks were meant to be those of the listener with a gun in his/her mouth. With every click the shutterflashes/gunfire goes off as other people are also pulling triggers. Then with the final chamber the listener is dead before they hear their own gun go off.

It could also be the camera shutters of paparazzi as you said. Waiting and trying to get the best shot of the execution/suicide and either the protagonist Adam dies or chooses not to go through with his celebritarian execution/suicide.

brian219
05-09-2012, 01:31 PM
Zapruder comes to mind. Shooting the shooting of JFK. Also interesting is that the camera used for the No Reflection video is supposedly some fancy National Geographic tech, where slow motion shots tend to be of a predator such as a lion killing it's prey. It's not hard to imagine a human episode where people are taken down in slo-mo shots like gazelles. "Here we see the murderer in it's natural habitat."

Sans Agendum
05-09-2012, 02:52 PM
And Slo-Mo-Tion starts off with Polaroid camera sounds.

Manson15Marilyn
05-13-2012, 03:00 PM
For Count to Six and Die (The Vacuum of Infinite Space Encompassing), Marilyn Manson said in an interview back then that the ending represented a chance to make a change; as the 6th time the trigger was never pulled, leaving the ending open to interpretation.

As for Born Villain, I think that line is just another way of him saying he "isn't someone to fuck with" as he's said is a part of this album in recent interviews.

The Empirical Guy
05-14-2012, 03:06 AM
I've had a quick look for the mention of guns/ cameras and couldn't turn it up... however, the fact several of us here all thought the same thing would indicate that it has been mentioned somewhere before, and I can't imagine the similarity not being intentional given the themes of the album. Are they guns? Are the cameras? Most likely they are both at the same time.

A Better Messiah
05-14-2012, 04:40 AM
I think that, given Manson's reputation for multi-layered audio tracks, it is quite possible for the sound effects at the end of "Count To Six And Die" to be both. This is pretty much reinforced with Manson's obsession with both (particularly their relationship with each other) during this specific Era. With that said, I don't recall anything but the empty chambers being "fired."

brian219
05-14-2012, 01:46 PM
Figured I'd stick this in here since the whole 404 Face Not Found thing was mentioned here earlier. This is an excerpt from Donald Tyson's book The Tetragrammaton, which Manson was reading during the recording of Antichrist Superstar (his and Missi's dog ate it).

"Before the sephiroth were projected within the Primordial Point of Kether, which in fact forms the boundary of the universe, there was only the featureless, unending essence of God."

This one passage shows where the concepts come from for both "the center of the universe cannot exist when there are no edges" and "404 error face," which refers to GOD.

A Better Messiah
05-14-2012, 03:42 PM
I think that really explains a lot, Brian! That's a great contribution!

Manson15Marilyn
05-19-2012, 12:13 PM
Why would any of Marilyn Manson's songs be about god? Has he found Jesus? (As if he were hiding in the first place...)

Whisky And Speed
05-19-2012, 12:44 PM
Why would any of Marilyn Manson's songs be about god? Has he found Jesus? (As if he were hiding in the first place...)

The song born villain mentions God BTW.

Atom
05-19-2012, 03:05 PM
Why would any of Marilyn Manson's songs be about god? Has he found Jesus? (As if he were hiding in the first place...)

Yeah, I mean, why would he even write a song with "god" in the title? LOLOLOLOLOL, "The Reflecting God" wtf?? lolerskates!!1!11

Manson15Marilyn
05-19-2012, 05:29 PM
The song born villain mentions God BTW.And he mentions "god" in Running to the Edge of the World, too. That doesn't mean either song is about god.

And he mentions god in some songs ironically, because he's pretty sure there isn't a god--except in the sense that people have ideals of god that motivate them--so he doesn't do it out of guilt to compensate for downplaying the existence of a god while being unsure whether or not god doesn't exist.

The title track is about... well, the title says it all; about the song and the album as a whole....


Born Villain was the perfect title for this record simply because its just the way I am. And then it becomes a question of 'nature or nurture?' Are people raised to be a villain, or villified, or a paraiah like I have become? At times, consiously, other times, against my will. It comes in things like "Columbine" and things like that, simply because they didn't like my music; not that they'd like my music, that would've been different. In fact, I think that I have--to my blame or credit, whichever way you want to look at it--more shootings than any other person in music. I think that there should be some sort of Grammy or something for that. I don't know, I'm not making light of what happened but if people are worried about what my music does, why don't you worry about what I would do? And that's my big thing on this record. I think everything on this record is an implied threat.

--Marilyn Manson

Also, I think Manson has left out Tetragrammaton as an inspiration for this album because that wasn't an inspiration for the album. He'd have mentioned it already if it was. That's in the past, like he said he leaves what's in the past, in the past. He only looks forward.

Sans Agendum
05-19-2012, 05:36 PM
Are you the guy from the other boards who would always spout off about how EM,DM had absolutely no relation to the Eucharist?

brian219
05-19-2012, 06:02 PM
He'd have mentioned it already if it was.

That's a neat trick. What's he thinking about right this minute?

Also, could you do me another favor? Would you mind digging up that quote where Manson says that he meticulously makes sure to mention every single reference that makes it onto his albums? That would be indispensable in helping to back up a lot of your arguments. Thanks in advance.

Manson15Marilyn
05-19-2012, 06:14 PM
I wouldn't talk about a book that hasn't influenced me when I make something.

@sans: Is there another board I should know about?

Halo Infinity
11-03-2013, 08:42 PM
I just wanted to use this thread as a reason to state this, as I'm sure all Marilyn Manson fans are aware of it anyway. I like how the clicks are also just like The Beautiful People and Disposable Teens.

(Oh crap, I didn't really pay attention to the amount of pages this thread had generated at first. My bad, because that point was probably mentioned to the extent of ad nauseam. =P)

Averus_32
02-03-2014, 08:24 PM
"We're on a bullet and were heading straight into god"

Also, one thing.

Manson himself has said that the order of each album is in reverse - Holywood, Mechanical THEN Antichrist Superstar.

"Shoot, shoot, shoot mother fucker...."

"Kill your god, kill your TV."

What got me is the Astonishing Panaroma of The Endtimes - apparently a song that was left from the Antichrist Era... but I think it sounds more John 5 in tone... *just saying* - If anyone is familiar - The Holy wood Story is the FIRST part of the story of Holy Wood as a whole - it's main character being Adam Kadmon. - Holywood was also going to be a book remember - to me this song is like Adam's war cry.

Antichrist is the last album of the triptych - The third and final part of "HolyWood" as a WHOLE.

"Shoot, shoot, shoot motherfucker..." - I think Adam becomes the Disentigrater - (The Angel with Scabbed Wings) - Who kills God/ The powers that be with "The Silver Bullet" - GOD IS THE RAPIST WEREWOLF (Manson himself on Christmas day last year uploaded a picture of himself with the caption - God Raped the Virgin Mary... - Just saying...

"Click, click, click, click, click."

"When I'm god, everyone dies" - Adam being god, kills everyone, leaving only himself...

... the man that you fear.

Also, in the Slo Motion video, he's holding an assault rifle as well as camera.
This is typical Manson, finding dual meanings in everything - this time for the word "SHOOT"

BlueEyeLens
02-04-2014, 06:22 AM
"We're on a bullet and were heading straight into god"

Also, one thing.

Manson himself has said that the order of each album is in reverse - Holywood, Mechanical THEN Antichrist Superstar.

"Shoot, shoot, shoot mother fucker...."

"Kill your god, kill your TV."

What got me is the Astonishing Panaroma of The Endtimes - apparently a song that was left from the Antichrist Era... but I think it sounds more John 5 in tone... *just saying* - If anyone is familiar - The Holy wood Story is the FIRST part of the story of Holy Wood as a whole - it's main character being Adam Kadmon. - Holywood was also going to be a book remember - to me this song is like Adam's war cry.

Antichrist is the last album of the triptych - The third and final part of "HolyWood" as a WHOLE.

"Shoot, shoot, shoot motherfucker..." - I think Adam becomes the Disentigrater - (The Angel with Scabbed Wings) - Who kills God/ The powers that be with "The Silver Bullet" - GOD IS THE RAPIST WEREWOLF (Manson himself on Christmas day last year uploaded a picture of himself with the caption - God Raped the Virgin Mary... - Just saying...

"Click, click, click, click, click."

"When I'm god, everyone dies" - Adam being god, kills everyone, leaving only himself...

... the man that you fear.

Also, in the Slo Motion video, he's holding an assault rifle as well as camera.
This is typical Manson, finding dual meanings in everything - this time for the word "SHOOT"

That is fuckin' deep, when you put it all like that.

MrBonestripper
02-04-2014, 12:16 PM
suicide rock

i almost think the listener is given a choice,
either they die or the world dies /
if there is an order, perhaps not
all tracks are used

i also remember marilyn saying something like "holy wood is the glue that holds all three records," and "holy wood is the blueprint or foundation that the other records build on," and "all three albums happen at the same time"

ive always felt like the triptych started and ended with holy wood
with ACSS tracks laid in reverse
and MA split
with OMEGA songs probably first in the order

yes, i realize OMEGA means the end, but
maybe those are meant to be songs of prophecy
just as well as "hollow rock anthems for holy wood"

Averus_32
02-05-2014, 07:43 PM
Alpha and Omega.

Two sides to the same coin.

Omega is dressed in (Coma) Black and Alpha is dressed in (Coma) White.

The songs are also split into two halfs on Mechanical Animals - thats why the booklet becomes upside down in the CD package - One side is Alpha's songs, the other is Omega.

Alpha is the Worm/ Adam.
Omega is what Adam WANTS to become - Sort of how Manson wants to become Bowie...

But I digress - I think Mechanical Animals fleshes out Holywood even more - the hollowness of it all.

Also, Kennedy refrences GALORE on Posthuman - then in the Fight Songs CD packaging you see the Zapruder Film Still 313 in it.

Again - The play on words - Kennedy was shot with a sniper rifle aswell as being shot by Zapruder... with a camera.

Nemoris Inferioris
02-12-2014, 10:54 PM
"And you know I'm loaded
But not which chamber
Touch me and I'll go
Click click click click click
Click click click click click
Click click click click click"



Well, if you have not noticed, there are 15 "clicks" that he says. Which there are many symbolism of the number 15. 13 tracks on the back cover, add the two m's.. But I don't necessarily think it's a reference to "Count to six and die", but I do understand completely why that thought would come to mind. "But not which chamber", is like the 'Russian roulette'. But in Holy Wood tense, no. It represents how unpredictable he is. The logo for the Born Villian era with the 4 M's as a swastika (chest tattoo), has different colors.tye yellow, pink, and cyan colors that blend into each other to make Black. It doesn't pertain so much toward the Nazi Swastika. But , Born Villian, Breaking the same old ground, Pistol Whipped, all give the same message. Overneath the path of misery has 15 "no's". No no no no no reason" [X3]. The no reflection video shows 5 woman and a man. 15... As you listen to the album more often, it becomes more and more clear to you what it is REALLY about. The lyrics help also lol. Children Of Cain is a very important song on BV...

FeedYourHead
08-09-2015, 02:51 PM
This has always been one of my favorite Manson songs, and I never really investigated what "angel in the lobby" is a reference to - if it is a reference to anything, and I always kind of liked not knowing and leaving it open to interpretation, but now I'm really curious. Is "angel in the lobby" a specific reference to something, or just amazing lyrics?

Two Faced Egg (23)
08-10-2015, 11:39 AM
This has always been one of my favorite Manson songs, and I never really investigated what "angel in the lobby" is a reference to - if it is a reference to anything, and I always kind of liked not knowing and leaving it open to interpretation, but now I'm really curious. Is "angel in the lobby" a specific reference to something, or just amazing lyrics?

NiCe. My subjective answer is , hmmm .. well I always Imagine the story in the Long Hard Road outttta HELL ..where He is at a Hospital with MiSsy ..in the Lobby .. waiting .. & someone offers Him Coffee ..& it brings back memories of childhood weirdness .. a Synchronicity I suspect it was .. An Angel in the Lobby .. I loVe it'