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Whisky And Speed
05-06-2012, 10:30 PM
Hi, I want to reflect on these lyrics from Manson's song the Gardner.I want to reflect on one verse that I feel it holds a certain message.




Iím not man enough to be human
but Iím trying to fit in
and Iím learning to fa fa fa fake it
fa fa fa fa fa fake it
fa fa fa fa fa fake it
fa fa fa fa fa fake it
ffffffffffffffa fa fa fake it

Here in this verse, I find an opposite to the infamous triptych.That means that the ACSS,Mechanical animals, Hollywood were a triptych in an inverted, backward order whereas the last three albums were the opposite and in a forward order.When we listen to Hollywood then mechanical animals then Antichrist super star we get the message behind them.Manson was Adam the human,the worm then the metamorphosis from a worm to a butterfly took place and the angel spread it's wings and Manson became the Antichrist and the man that you fear.On the other hand, if you listened to eat me drink me and the high end of low then born villain you will find that the message is forward and it's quite the opposite.Here Manson reclaims his humanity back as we read in the verse.


Manson says above that he isn't man enough to be human but he is trying to fit in and fake it.Here we get the feeling that nature runs it's course backwards, as the butterfly returns to it's cocoon again and transforms into a worm again.It's Manson reclaiming back his humanity even if he isn't human enough he want to fit in and fake it.In eat me drink me we find a man who screams that love is a fire and it burns all things then we find him singing that he reached the high end of low yet he never surrenders and he sings not letting you win won't satisfy me.Then in born villain we find that Manson screams I don't know which me that I love? the worm or the butterfly? the Antichrist or the human?.Manson has mentioned that this song is in the middle of the record because it has a central theme.I find that the theme is his transformation from an Antichrist to a sinner human being, a villain.he is someone who is regaining his human emotions back even if he can't he will fake them.

When the moth transforms into a butterfly it leaves it's dark cocoon to go out to a vast world full of sound and light and human beings,it's no longer isolated.

As I mentioned above in the record and in this era that nature runs it's course backwards,as Manson left his flamboyant, celebrity life style to live in a dark lair in obscurity.Here we find that the butterfly returned back to it's cocoon as Manson returned back to the isolation he encountered in his childhood and early teens , but this time voluntarily,by his own choice.He found his happiness and solace in being away from people and from the noisy celebrity life style, he isn't that social outgoing person of 1998 despite going out with friends and partying sometimes.This isolation is a part of this backward transformation from the non-human anti Christ to the human being and from the butterfly to the worm again.It's Manson without mismatched milky contact lens and eyebrows shaved and chalky white powder,he is showing us more of a human face.He is trying and faking it.

Do you think that the Antichrist is dead yet?

dopedevil73
05-07-2012, 05:44 AM
This song always reminded me of Mechanical Animals. Not the music but the story behind Mechanical Animals. In MA, the story was that he was an alien trying to adapt to this world. Hence the lyrics :

I’m not man enough to be human
but I’m trying to fit in
and I’m learning to fa fa fa fake it


I also on the "phant" I made a comment about how the song Eat Me, Drink Me in my mind had the same story as Tourniquet and ACSS, with the butterfly

This is one of the reasons why I love Manson.. Puts out a great album, then informs us (hopefully with another new album) that BV was link to a story

VCR
05-07-2012, 07:07 AM
Do you think that the Antichrist is dead yet?

I don't think he ever existed to begin with. I think the "Triptych" was made up as he went along. There was no great plan involved. I think ACSS was created with great help by Trent. Using a focal point that would cause a lot of controversy propelled by Mansons energy at the time. Fuck it, lets tear apart christians and be the anti christ. It sold, it worked.

With Mechanical Animals, I think it was to do the polar opposite as ACSS as not to become a ACSS2 cliche and repeat what was just sold. It was a very ballzy move and it worked. There was writing references between the two records because well, we have the same writer between the two.

When Holywood was written I think it was a softer attack on religion as a whole. Another attempt to capitalize on that market without the dark side. Manson is intelligent, noone can argue that. But to say this triptych was planned during ACSS is hard to believe for me. Just like with the track 1996 recorded in the future. I think that was a typo and was never caught until it went to press's. The easy answer was to be mysterious and go with the typo. Creating some bullshit story instead of going "whoops, we fucked up".

After Holy Wood was released it was very easy to say that it was a backwards story as yeah as a whole and if you care to listen, and chase the story it all relates to each other. But I find all of mansons music relates. If I could go back in time and fuck shit up I would put BV where MA was and keep the triptych story and it would still fit. Why? because it never existed to begin with.

It frustrates me beyond belief when people still reference ACSS, or the whole Triptych story record after record. I do respect opinions, and it is not a personal attack on anyone. I just find it annoying. There are relations with themes yes, but that is because Manson, as a writer will always have a central writing core regardless of release flavor. That goes with anyone who has the ability to create art, or music.

Guns, flowers, god, monkeys, self abuse. All these seem to pop up on almost every record. I have been saying since THEOL and now with listening to BV that EMDM to BV is a triptych backwards about relationships. Cringeon stopped me to inform me that BV was a stand alone release but I think he was missing the point I was trying to make. Manson could indeed make that statement and fans would run with it, and everything would "make sense" people might have more respect for EMDM and then expect at least 3 more records, speculate about the next triptych. etc.

It was all made up on the fly. Manson said it himself. He sells his shadow to those who are standing in it. For me personally, that is how I see the big picture. The triptych story never existed until after holywood was created. Just like when he announces BV->EMDM was a triptych in the short future haha.

Oh, and I love The Gardener. One of the best tracks on the record.

brian219
05-07-2012, 07:42 AM
Compare the Gardener's lyrics to the ones from Learning To Swim. Exact same message.

MisanthroPope
05-07-2012, 11:16 AM
Nothing really to add but I assumed Manson lifted the "I'm trying to fit in" part from American Psycho.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vBpcSEdcRc

Actually, I suppose the whole chorus could have been American Psycho inspired.

Norsefire
05-07-2012, 11:37 AM
I can totally see the Mechanical Animals connection in this song too, thanks for bringing that up dopedevil73, I never looked at the song in this way until now.

I'm sure I've heard or read the lyrics "don't ever meet their friends" or "it's all ruined if you meet their friends". I went through MM's status updates but couldn't find anything there, but they seem so familiar like either MM has said one of those things before or it's in a film.

dopedevil73
05-07-2012, 04:47 PM
After reading all the replies, I went ahead a read the lyrics again to this song.. I can almost paint the story in away with the tie in with Mechanical Animals...

Alien trying to fit in/adopt to this world
trying to be human
learning to fake it
fakes it enough to realize what he became

Now look at the first lines of New Model No. 15

"I'm as fake as a wedding cake"

Fav
05-08-2012, 05:57 PM
I don't think that Born Villain is connected to the Triptych as some people make it out to be. Sure, some concepts overlap, but that's because Manson's mind is focused on particular themes or works in certain patterns, but a connection isn't as close as say Mechanical Animals is with Holy Wood. With art being so ambiguous at times, I'm sure you could find a connection between, like Portrait and Golden Age, but that doesn't mean that a literal and intentional connection was intended to be made.

"I'm not man enough to be human, but I'm trying to fit in, and I'm learning to fake it" pretty much describes the crisis that he has been dealing with in the past couple of years. People want to change him to fit their needs, or to fit their expectations, and the song deals with interacting with a lover's friends. There's a hint of American Psycho in there too, which I'm sure most fans aren't surprised by, because the movie has been referenced by him multiple times.

brian219
05-08-2012, 08:46 PM
I agree with Dope Devil.

I also stick by my comparison to Learning To Swim (off the Lunch Box demo tape for anyone who doesn't bother with the ancient stuff.)


I wanna be the fish
I like the way he swims
I bend my arms to fins
Ego scales my skin

I grab a sharp stick
And I cut my gills
The water rushes in...

I'm too young
To live this life

I wanna be the fish
I like the way he swims
I grab a sharp stick
I'm too young to live
Inside this life

They want me to stay
This life I cannot feign
They want me to stay
This life I cannot feign
They want me to stay
This life I cannot feign

He's not fish enough to be a fish
but he's learning to swim
and trying to f-f-f-feign it.

Predates American Psycho, btw.

CellarOwl
05-29-2012, 10:59 AM
This could be a totally unrelated reference and sheer coincidence, but I thought it was pretty cool nonetheless.


Wood must realize she has a reputation, and not merely for being among the most gifted actresses of her generation. "I don't know!" she says, laughing. "I'm constantly changing, I'm constantly growing. I think I'm a little controversial? ... I just try and keep some mystery, so hopefully people can't really put their finger on it."

http://www.esquire.com/women/women-we-love/evan-rachel-wood-tattoos-0511#ixzz1wHaGfNN1

Manson15Marilyn
05-29-2012, 11:13 AM
I agree with Dope Devil.

I also stick by my comparison to Learning To Swim (off the Lunch Box demo tape for anyone who doesn't bother with the ancient stuff.)



He's not fish enough to be a fish
but he's learning to swim
and trying to f-f-f-feign it.

Predates American Psycho, btw.That's actually not a bad analogy...

kleiner352
06-13-2012, 01:37 PM
I just think it's a relationship song and about how, as he's said in plenty of interviews, he often falls in love with an idea of someone or an image he has of them in their head, and they never live up to it. Hence the "she and every she is doomed to be your idea of her". In fact it's pretty obviously largely about Evan. Someone earlier I think quoted her and the whole "needed to grow" comment. She was drastically younger than him, hence the "even though you were supposed to be done growing, she is still growing" and the "your book wasn't burned, it was never written" lines. I think the "don't ever meet their friends" thing connects to how there's the old saying about how you can judge someone by the company they keep, and he realizes how stupid or hollow someone is by their friends.

/notthatcomplicated

Elizabeth Casto
09-21-2012, 09:02 PM
im still confused about how a book fits into the song.

The Wax Gentleman
09-22-2012, 11:46 AM
im still confused about how a book fits into the song.

You're a book, every page is written in words I cannot read. So I burn, gotta burn, gotta burn it.
-Lay Down Your Goddamn Arms

I think these two lines tie together. I think he's saying that people aren't trying to destroy you, or burn the book that tells you who you are, because if you are faking who you are, your book isn't written yet. Something like that.

And as far as this song tying into the Triptych, the Triptych was amazing, but it's finished. Obviously some lyrics will be the same, but it's a triptych. That implies the number three.
I do think, however, that Manson is always making trilogies focusing on different concepts;
Growing Up, Creativity
Lunchboxes and Chok'lit Cows, Portrait, Smells Like Children
The Triptych
Duh.
Art
The Golden Age of Grotesque, Phantasmagoria, The Celebritarian Corporation
Humanity
Eat Me Drink Me, THEOL, Born Villain

Elizabeth Casto
11-29-2012, 03:47 PM
You're a book, every page is written in words I cannot read. So I burn, gotta burn, gotta burn it.
-Lay Down Your Goddamn Arms

I think these two lines tie together. I think he's saying that people aren't trying to destroy you, or burn the book that tells you who you are, because if you are faking who you are, your book isn't written yet. Something like that.

And as far as this song tying into the Triptych, the Triptych was amazing, but it's finished. Obviously some lyrics will be the same, but it's a triptych. That implies the number three.
I do think, however, that Manson is always making trilogies focusing on different concepts;
Growing Up, Creativity
Lunchboxes and Chok'lit Cows, Portrait, Smells Like Children
The Triptych
Duh.
Art
The Golden Age of Grotesque, Phantasmagoria, The Celebritarian Corporation
Humanity
Eat Me Drink Me, THEOL, Born Villain

this makes the most sense.

YoureAlreadyHere
02-07-2014, 12:17 PM
Nothing really to add but I assumed Manson lifted the "I'm trying to fit in" part from American Psycho.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vBpcSEdcRc

I can see this being reinstated by the Taking Heads' song, "Psycho Killer" (if Manson was inspired by this song), which featured the "Fa" sound long before The Gardener was ever conceived.


http://youtu.be/Y6U8Pw_0Slo

Whisky And Speed
02-07-2014, 04:11 PM
@
YoureAlreadyHere

That's a good point really and could be a good question for Manson if any one had the opportunity to ask him that question some day. Were you Mr. Manson influenced by the talking heads at some point especially by the song psycho killers?. BTW, I like this song.

FUCK, I miss my lovely LIKE button already !. :mad:

YoureAlreadyHere
02-10-2014, 04:44 PM
^ thank you for the like! It always feels good to be acknowledged :P

S.D.
03-07-2016, 05:37 PM
This song always reminded me of Mechanical Animals. Not the music but the story behind Mechanical Animals. In MA, the story was that he was an alien trying to adapt to this world.

The Gardener shares a close relationship with Manson's lifelong obsession over facsimile personalities and assumed identity. Regarding The Triptych, consider that during Mechanical Animals, "we're all stars", and we see Manson fighting with duplicates of himself in The Dope Show. He also says "This isn't me, I'm not mechanical", whilst reflecting upon the people he sees as "mechanical animals" (themselves only replicas of something organic).
Everything is duplicated, as he claims during Holy Wood; "You're just a copy of an imitation".

I found an interesting piece of Shakespeare that correlates with this song. During Othello, Iago makes the following statement:-



"Our bodies are our gardens, to the which our wills are gardeners. So that if we will plant nettles or sow lettuce, set hyssop and weed up thyme, supply it with one gender of herbs or distract it with many—either to have it sterile with idleness, or manured with industry—why, the power and corrigible authority of this lies in our wills. If the balance of our lives had not one scale of reason to poise another of sensuality, the blood and baseness of our natures would conduct us to most prepost'rous conclusions. But we have reason to cool our raging motions, our carnal stings, our unbitted lusts. Whereof I take this that you call love to be a sect or scion."

Consider the description of willpower as being a gardener, and the abandon of reason - No Reason - the inspiration for debauchery. I have discussed before how throughout Born Villain the theological 'garden' of Eden is perhaps Manson's scenery, and the behaviour of man his study. Given that Adam's rib created Eve, we can attribute "although you are supposed to be done growing, she is still growing", to the development of Adam and Eve within the garden, and god's 'gift' of free will as the catalyst for their expulsion from paradise. This - and the underpinning Shakespearean tragedy - is supported directly by the bloodline of Adam and Eve recognised in Children Of Cain, and perhaps the notion of willpower and the 'Garden' continuously causing man's downfall; "breaking the same old ground".