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View Full Version : Biggest Scam Ever? (A Political Discussion)



filthytothecore
06-06-2012, 12:25 AM
What if as some think, THat you are greater than other's Why do you allow a goverment to persist to exist? Why do you allow yourself to be dominated by something else? These questions are one's I often think about myself, I felt like sharing with everyone and engaging in discussion on this subject, THanks for looking and have a nice day.

Golden Eel
06-06-2012, 12:46 AM
I like living in a structured, civil society where I am able to press buttons on a machine made out of metal and plastic that allows me to communicate with people at every corner of the globe. I like clean water and food. I like roads to drive on. I like free education for children. These are a few of many reasons that a government is necessary. No one is dominating me. I can freely do whatever I'd like. But part of living in a modern civilization is abiding by agreed-upon rules of how to conduct yourself. That's why you can't just go around killing people.

If you want to live in a nation without an evil tyrannical government holding you down, try out Somalia. Otherwise, cut out the hyperbolic melodrama.

Sticky Killer Jones
06-06-2012, 07:45 AM
The question I have, is how long do you believe you could live off the grid, off the system the government overlooks? With no access to food and drugs that the FDA approves for safety, no access to clean water and plumbing, off the electrical grid, off the American greenback currency. Even if you kept a gun to keep thieves away from your food supply (planted vegetables and meat you've hunted), eventually you will run out of ammunition.

Governments have existed for thousands of years. From the Inca, the Aztec, ancient Egyptian dynasties, the Roman Empire, all with their complex systems of keeping their land with large populations in check. Their unique systems mobilizing their citizens to build their roads, monuments, cultivating their crops to proper usage for food, clothing and medicine, their specific versions of education, culture and law. Some I've listed were known to use their power for what today would seem like strange, inhumane and brutal ends, and none weren't free of guilt of corruption themselves. But really, I see no reason to believe we're any more civilized now. Just because our president doesn't perform human sacrifices at a large altar in front of crowds of his constituents, doesn't make dead children in Pakistan from drone strikes any less different.

We still practice capital punishment. While I personally don't endorse it myself and would like to someday see it eliminated altogether, I can understand why a large sum of people would lament people like Anders Breivik legally still being able to breathe, assert with pride he's sane and working for the greater good. Lethal injection in a controlled environment, with justice for the victims in mind, is much more suitable than a hanging or beheading in front of gleeful crowd recording everything with their cell phones to rewatch with morbid amusement later.

As an American, you live in a constitutional republic. Our heads of state and other officials are representatives for the people, and our constitution limits the power of the government to a point. Although there are elements of our system that has disintegrated to a worrying level that we're gonna to have to confront soon and like the ancient civilizations listed above, our foundations may fall (we are a young country compared to others after all), but don't try to act like you live in North Korea. Many of your privileges would be void if it weren't for our laws that gives you to right to say what you want, live as you wish, provided you're not making life unsafe for someone else.

Government is an inevitable part of civilization. Societies, especially quite large ones, that lack fundamental order are likely to be hazardous and unsuitable societies to live in. It's not a question of domination, but of organized order by the people. Leaders that try to dominate people tend not to last very long. People like Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler and most recently Hosni Mubarak and Muammar Gaddafi aren't going to remembered as the winners in history books.

ThreeEyedGod
06-06-2012, 08:26 AM
we need to be ruled.

we crave it.

An organized society is what we created as soon as it was allowed by our environment.

Terrapin
06-06-2012, 08:37 AM
Tweaked the thread title somewhat to not give the wrong idea in a section which also covers current "World Events."

I thoroughly enjoy Doug Stanhope's take on Liberty and he makes quite a few great/funny points throughout this segment:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4Rm87cqnUI

Do I believe we need government assistance to keep the peace? Yes, unfortunately. Do I believe that we need a unified way of connecting everyone to improve society? Yes again. However, while we may have articles in check to help limit government power, we still have politicians side-stepping the lines drawn in favor of their own interpretations. We are becoming more and more of a police-state as the years continue on, through efforts of the Patriot Act, SOPA/CISPA, the War on Drugs, and the current NDAA as it stands (there's obviously other stuff, but these are the hot-buttons currently).

It is THIS type of government I do not support. We do not need them stepping in and overlooking everything in our personal lives, we do not need to "spread the wealth," we do not need various federal laws promoting power for the central state. This is precisely why I couldn't possibly align with either the right or the left or vote based mainly on partisanship values. Unfortunately, this country is irrational as a majority and we are doomed every voting period because of it. While we enjoy plenty of freedoms other societies don't, many of these freedoms are chipped away at piece by piece.

Throwing it out there that it IS possible to live off the grid successfully, and many are opting for this alternative. Self-sustaining construction is on a rise, though admittedly crazy expensive at first. I'd love to see more of these projects progress.

Sans Agendum
06-06-2012, 11:25 AM
I'd really like to know what sort of 'oppression' Filthy has faced in his life.

filthytothecore
06-06-2012, 12:29 PM
Do I believe we need government assistance to keep the peace? Yes, unfortunately. Do I believe that we need a unified way of connecting everyone to improve society? Yes again. However, while we may have articles in check to help limit government power, we still have politicians side-stepping the lines drawn in favor of their own interpretations. We are becoming more and more of a police-state as the years continue on, through efforts of the Patriot Act, SOPA/CISPA, the War on Drugs, and the current NDAA as it stands (there's obviously other stuff, but these are the hot-buttons currently).

It is THIS type of government I do not support. We do not need them stepping in and overlooking everything in our personal lives and we do not need to "spread the wealth" or mandate various new federal laws in order for us to be successful as a society. This is precisely why I couldn't possibly align with either the right or the left or vote based mainly on partisanship values. Unfortunately, this country is irrational as a majority and we are doomed every voting period because of this. While we enjoy plenty of freedoms other societies don't, many of these freedoms are chipped away at piece by piece.
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Most of this is what I felt like saying, Didn't know if I'd get banned for saying it however.

Sans Agendum
06-06-2012, 12:37 PM
Quit sucking up to the moderator, Filthy.

filthytothecore
06-06-2012, 12:39 PM
Quit sucking up to the moderator, Filthy.

Are you implying, Me and Terrapin, Don't feel somewhat the same on the issue?

Sans Agendum
06-06-2012, 05:02 PM
"Terrapin and I"

I like how your thread title is in all caps. Really makes it stand out.

brian219
06-06-2012, 05:46 PM
I like how your thread title is in all caps. Really makes it stand out.

I found that misleading, as I came in expecting the discussion to focus on capitalism.

Terrapin
06-06-2012, 06:07 PM
^You are awesome.

Not a fan of the unnecessary capitalizing myself. Consider those changed.

Sans Agendum
06-06-2012, 08:11 PM
It's like a NEWSPAPER HEADLINE and commands one's attention. Such a delightfully propaganda-esque tactic.

I swear I've seen it used somewhere before.

Ignite_Midnight
06-07-2012, 09:52 PM
I personally think Organized Government is either good or bad depending on exactly who is put in a place f power within said government and how he/she/they what ever the case may be does with that power.
A good government will promote proseperity and promote good welfare upon the general public. A horrible government my have good intentions but lack either the power, the means, or the ability to perform their duties to the fullest of their extent, thuslly rendering the very purpose of said government useless, inadequate, inferior, and or corrupt and unjust.
Basically what makes a government good or bad is the people placed in power and what they decide to do with said power.
The U.S is a democratic society and thusly government officials are placed in power via the election process. If we vote a retards into power we suffer the consequences if we vote intelligent people with excellent morals and ethics we get to reap the benefits so if you vote my advice is when you go to the polls vote for the least retarded canidate. In the very least that is my view on this subject matter. "I know my post seems a little blunt and less put together than normal and i beg forgiveness I have been drinking and smoking as it is my birthday. "

brian219
06-08-2012, 12:21 AM
I personally think Organized Government is either good or bad depending on exactly who is put in a place f power within said government and how he/she/they what ever the case may be does with that power.
A good government will promote proseperity and promote good welfare upon the general public. A horrible government my have good intentions but lack either the power, the means, or the ability to perform their duties to the fullest of their extent, thuslly rendering the very purpose of said government useless, inadequate, inferior, and or corrupt and unjust.
Basically what makes a government good or bad is the people placed in power and what they decide to do with said power.
The U.S is a democratic society and thusly government officials are placed in power via the election process. If we vote a retards into power we suffer the consequences if we vote intelligent people with excellent morals and ethics we get to reap the benefits so if you vote my advice is when you go to the polls vote for the least retarded canidate. In the very least that is my view on this subject matter. "I know my post seems a little blunt and less put together than normal and i beg forgiveness I have been drinking and smoking as it is my birthday. "

That's a very valid view on it, but I disagree on a few key things. I don't think electing retards is the problem. The system should be built in such a way that retards can't do any significant amount of damage, since there is no way to safeguard against an imbecile or someone who is corruptible getting elected. Any government system should be continuously tweaked in order to maintain the spirit of that system, because times change. Economic powers came into prominence and the government should have adapted to insure that the nature of the country didn't become subverted. This was attempted to an extent with antitrust laws and attempts to bust monopolies in the early 20th century, but these efforts were a bit late to be effective. Economic globalization has added to problem. So now the amount of foreign influence on other nations is at a point that would have been unacceptable just 50 years ago. The problem is that corporate interests now have a power that far outstrips the government of any given country. This makes it matter very little who gets elected, as they are all just sock puppets for whoever has wads of cash. Capitalism works just fine, but measures should have been taken along the way to avoid arriving at the point that we have.

Ignite_Midnight
06-13-2012, 02:05 AM
That's a very valid view on it, but I disagree on a few key things. I don't think electing retards is the problem. The system should be built in such a way that retards can't do any significant amount of damage, since there is no way to safeguard against an imbecile or someone who is corruptible getting elected. Any government system should be continuously tweaked in order to maintain the spirit of that system, because times change. Economic powers came into prominence and the government should have adapted to insure that the nature of the country didn't become subverted. This was attempted to an extent with antitrust laws and attempts to bust monopolies in the early 20th century, but these efforts were a bit late to be effective. Economic globalization has added to problem. So now the amount of foreign influence on other nations is at a point that would have been unacceptable just 50 years ago. The problem is that corporate interests now have a power that far outstrips the government of any given country. This makes it matter very little who gets elected, as they are all just sock puppets for whoever has wads of cash. Capitalism works just fine, but measures should have been taken along the way to avoid arriving at the point that we have.

I find that you to raise very valid key points and issues, now please feel free to correct me if I misinterpreted post.

My Translation of the over all theme of your post is below within the brackets:

[Corporations are the ones in control via their wealth, power and influence.]



I believe the above bracketed sentence to be a rough translation of the underlying theme of your post now as this is only a translation obviously it is open to flaws made by error and or misinterpretation.

Please fell free to correct me if I am wrong and or feel free to point out if I missed anything so that I may have a fuller and better understanding of your view point.

Regardless of the accuracy of my interpretation of your post i find your views to be interesting, valid, and full of depth/insight.

brian219
06-13-2012, 10:09 PM
I find that you to raise very valid key points and issues, now please feel free to correct me if I misinterpreted post.

My Translation of the over all theme of your post is below within the brackets:

[Corporations are the ones in control via their wealth, power and influence.]



I believe the above bracketed sentence to be a rough translation of the underlying theme of your post now as this is only a translation obviously it is open to flaws made by error and or misinterpretation.

Please fell free to correct me if I am wrong and or feel free to point out if I missed anything so that I may have a fuller and better understanding of your view point.

Regardless of the accuracy of my interpretation of your post i find your views to be interesting, valid, and full of depth/insight.

Yes, that pretty much sums up what I think. Plus a bit of regret that this situation was allowed to occur.

Ignite_Midnight
06-17-2012, 10:38 PM
^
^
^
I to find it regretful. The Government needs to reclaim some of it's power at least in my opinion in any case I think that "The Big Corporations" Need some sort of leash or at least a muzzle, some sort of damage control.

rusty shackleford
07-29-2012, 09:33 PM
If you live in America I don't see how you can accept the government we have. It's not even like a government really it's like a bunch of hookers taking money to create loopholes or make certain things mandatory for certain people. Fucking ridiculous.

filthytothecore
10-15-2012, 09:46 PM
I'd like to bump this thread and say a few words, People that have no idea what a Political Gruoups ideals consist of at all except for what is told through TV and not researching it themselves, Really shouldn't talk about it in the first palce. Apparently if someone disagrees with your view it becomes alright to shout buzz words in a manner to try to alienate the person.

The Hand
10-17-2012, 11:40 AM
I'd like to bump this thread and say a few words, People that have no idea what a Political Gruoups ideals consist of at all except for what is told through TV and not researching it themselves, Really shouldn't talk about it in the first palce. Apparently if someone disagrees with your view it becomes alright to shout buzz words in a manner to try to alienate the person.

In the past month I have read 5 books about Fascism :P Where did you learn about how bad "multiculturalism" (which is a buzzword!) was? Let me guess, internet agitprop? Prove me wrong

I'd really love to know what your personal research consists of!

I'll be straight with you, I'm condescending to you because of your terrible English and bigoted opinions - but if you would care to elaborate on why you think your culture possesses some kind of purity that must be maintained (AHEM! Hello?), I'm all ears

edit -
Actually the funny thing is, my new thesis supposes that the profile of a typical European far-right supporter has shifted from traditional post-war Fascist/White Nationalist values (Anti-Semitism, Corporatism, Anti-Intellectualism, Homophobia, seeking Working class support), to something new that hasn't quite found a voice - although the old-far-right has moved in to try and fill the void, the ideological gulf is stopping any popular movement from taking off - the emerging far-right has different concerns (Multiculturalism, Islamism, Globalisation, Free-Speech, using support for LGBT as an example of the difference between Islamists and the West, predominantly middle-class support base). Part of the reason I'm pursuing the line of research is because I'm tired of leftist scholars personifying this new-right concern as Nazi (while I think it is dangerous, ill-informed etc, I don't think it's Nazi any more than HAMAS are) - and here I possibly am, doing the same thing :P I suppose it suggests my thesis has some basis in reality!

filthytothecore
10-17-2012, 10:50 PM
In the past month I have read 5 books about Fascism :P Where did you learn about how bad "multiculturalism" (which is a buzzword!) was? Let me guess, internet agitprop? Prove me wrong

I'd really love to know what your personal research consists of!

I'll be straight with you, I'm condescending to you because of your terrible English and bigoted opinions - but if you would care to elaborate on why you think your culture possesses some kind of purity that must be maintained (AHEM! Hello?), I'm all ears

edit -
Actually the funny thing is, my new thesis supposes that the profile of a typical European far-right supporter has shifted from traditional post-war Fascist/White Nationalist values (Anti-Semitism, Corporatism, Anti-Intellectualism, Homophobia, seeking Working class support), to something new that hasn't quite found a voice - although the old-far-right has moved in to try and fill the void, the ideological gulf is stopping any popular movement from taking off - the emerging far-right has different concerns (Multiculturalism, Islamism, Globalisation, Free-Speech, using support for LGBT as an example of the difference between Islamists and the West, predominantly middle-class support base). Part of the reason I'm pursuing the line of research is because I'm tired of leftist scholars personifying this new-right concern as Nazi (while I think it is dangerous, ill-informed etc, I don't think it's Nazi any more than HAMAS are) - and here I possibly am, doing the same thing :P I suppose it suggests my thesis has some basis in reality!

I'll be quite honest and frank I'm Pro-Gay and I'm glad you're doing a paper, Do what makes you happy, also MC I encounter it everywhere in day to day life, It annoys me because it's unnatural various groups don't Assimilate like The colonists from Europe did and create a new type of culture, What some in this age do is they hold on to those values and won't assimilate and are very vehement against it. and Why shouldn't various cultures outside of US be allowed to defend their ethnic culture regardless of what it is? It's the right of every human to defend what their culture created.