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View Full Version : 'Born Villain' Lyrics & Ideas Alluding To Previous Albums?



me_andre
06-13-2012, 11:31 AM
While listening to the album I have heard some references to previous albums. Please join the thread with more examples.

"Creator, preserver, destoyer" Holywood, Mechanical Animals, Antichrist Superstar.

"Pistol whipped" - "I'm in love with a pretty pistol"

The spoken word intro of "Overneath the Path of Misery" and the interlude for "Portrait of an American Family"

"I'm the host with vaseline" - "VCR's and vaseline, TV-fucked by plastic-queen. Cash in hand and dick on screen, who said god was ever clean?"

"She and every she is doomed to be your idea of her" - "Don't break my heart and I won't break your heart shaped glasses"

"The day thay covered us in the dirt, like stars/scars in the ground that will grow into dead flowers" - "And all your sad endings are planting in their gardens, And they're waiting to grow and to die like flowers do" - "The world spread it's legs for another star, the world spread it's legs for another scar"

"Let me show you what I think of your lips, and you think that I asked for this, come on... use your fist" - "Use your fist and not your mouth"

Whisky And Speed
06-13-2012, 11:52 AM
Don't assume that i'm always with you it's just where my mortal body happens to be.I think this refers to the last day on earth.

The Wax Gentleman
06-13-2012, 03:52 PM
I think Manson has said the word "and" twice in his career... Could this mean something? Let's find the hidden metaphors.

thatrussianman
06-13-2012, 04:08 PM
I think Manson has said the word "and" twice in his career... Could this mean something? Let's find the hidden metaphors.

well, I'm not as pessimistic as that^ because I do think there is SOMETHING here. I think maybe we could be connecting TOO much back to past work but I do think since this album is JUST about Marilyn Manson the man and nothing else, he could be re writing old lyrics and making them more listenable as a first impression for people. Or, no reason.

FeedYourHead
06-13-2012, 04:28 PM
I could be extremely negative and say that the entire album and all included lyrics are an allusion to/explanation of "This Is the New Shit"... but I won't.
Instead, I'll just point out that "hollywood" should be changed to "holywood" in the initial post.

me_andre
06-13-2012, 05:07 PM
I don't think there is A secret meaning. But there are alot of layers and Manson said himself that he is trying to create confusion. Well, he sings "When I found out how to be what you want I was out looking for something new, digging to deep, now it's to late, we just keep on breaking the same old ground. I. Owned by death, and I am in love with oblivion." This says it all, really. At the deep bottom of Mansons art there are nihilism and emptiness, on the level deeper than books and flowers. It's what drives him and what fucks him over. Again, and again. It's what I always loved about him too, because I kind of feel the same way and that is why "This is The New Shit" hooked me as a fan, and also why yes, the whole album is to a certain degree about "This is the New Shit".

"Overneath, overneath, overblown, unbeloved, cannot be low. From the top of my lungs to the bottom of my heart I scream, at the chasm in between, and the path of misery. High and overneath! High and overneath! No, no, no, no, no reason."

If Manson suddenly becomes activated by love, psychedelia or both, and change his entire core. Now is the time. I don't believe it would work though, because Jim Morrison tried that from the start of his carriere and we all know how that path went along. I only use Jim as an example because I think him and Manson are very alike intellectually. Actually, I kind of think that was what Manson tried with EMDM and HEOL. Not counting psychedelia. I would love a hippie Manson at this time, but, ehh. He already exists. XP

Back to topic.

I also se a link between "You got your hells teeth smiling at you, it keeps your brain safe, as it all eats at your face, but don't worry, we'll blur it out, and no one ever will know. This is my beautiful show and everything is shot in slo-mo-tion" and "They'll love you when you're on all of their covers, when you're not, then they'll love another. We're all stars now, in the dope show"

thatrussianman
06-13-2012, 06:33 PM
Well, yeah, but I think he's saying "You have something ugly, that keeps you happy, but slowly eats at you from the inside, but don't worry, I help you make it so fuzzy/distorted no one will know your mistakes."

thatrussianman
06-13-2012, 06:41 PM
Hell's teeth could be like, canines, smiling at you "in the mirror"...
"safe" and then "eats at your face" are like a contradiction ...
but I think it means all your mistakes that show up on something as clear as your face can easily be blurred out like a movie.
"I can help you be perfect."

This is my beautiful show, and everything is shot in slo-mo-tion
I go back to thinking how dreams influence Manson in this chorus
*remember when he sings "... 'shot' in slomotion" live, he pulls the trigger of an imaginary gun*

"In my dreams, I dream of everything being "shot" and everyone getting "shot" in slow-motion (but ironically abbreviated SLO-MO-tion)"
is what I think the lyric means.

me_andre
06-13-2012, 06:54 PM
Hell's teeth could be like, canines, smiling at you "in the mirror"...
"safe" and then "eats at your face" are like a contradiction ...
but I think it means all your mistakes that show up on something as clear as your face can easily be blurred out like a movie.
"I can help you be perfect."

This is my beautiful show, and everything is shot in slo-mo-tion
I go back to thinking how dreams influence Manson in this chorus
*remember when he sings "... 'shot' in slomotion" live, he pulls the trigger of an imaginary gun*

"In my dreams, I dream of everything being "shot" and everyone getting "shot" in slow-motion (but ironically abbreviated SLO-MO-tion)"
is what I think the lyric means.

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50505_249690637936_7056030_n.jpg

http://topnews.in/light/files/Pete%20Doherty.jpg

http://cdn02.cdn.justjared.com/wp-content/uploads/headlines/2008/10/amy-winehouse-pearly-yellows.jpg

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/agT2GVNQjao/0.jpg

brian219
06-13-2012, 09:29 PM
I don't think there is A secret meaning. But there are alot of layers and Manson said himself that he is trying to create confusion. Well, he sings "When I found out how to be what you want I was out looking for something new, digging to deep, now it's to late, we just keep on breaking the same old ground. I. Owned by death, and I am in love with oblivion." This says it all, really. At the deep bottom of Mansons art there are nihilism and emptiness, on the level deeper than books and flowers. It's what drives him and what fucks him over. Again, and again. It's what I always loved about him too, because I kind of feel the same way and that is why "This is The New Shit" hooked me as a fan, and also why yes, the whole album is to a certain degree about "This is the New Shit".

"Overneath, overneath, overblown, unbeloved, cannot be low. From the top of my lungs to the bottom of my heart I scream, at the chasm in between, and the path of misery. High and overneath! High and overneath! No, no, no, no, no reason."

If Manson suddenly becomes activated by love, psychedelia or both, and change his entire core. Now is the time. I don't believe it would work though, because Jim Morrison tried that from the start of his carriere and we all know how that path went along. I only use Jim as an example because I think him and Manson are very alike intellectually. Actually, I kind of think that was what Manson tried with EMDM and HEOL. Not counting psychedelia. I would love a hippie Manson at this time, but, ehh. He already exists. XP

Back to topic.

I also se a link between "You got your hells teeth smiling at you, it keeps your brain safe, as it all eats at your face, but don't worry, we'll blur it out, and no one ever will know. This is my beautiful show and everything is shot in slo-mo-tion" and "They'll love you when you're on all of their covers, when you're not, then they'll love another. We're all stars now, in the dope show"

By this logic anyone who connected with Manson's work would be selfish nihilists who see destruction as art. You may be on to something.

Tick Tock Goes The
06-14-2012, 07:41 AM
Both songs feature childlike music box instrumentation and similar synths.

Don't BREAK, don't BREAK my heart, and I wont BREAK your heart shaped glasses.

The Flowers of Evil painting is of two heart shaped flowers, rising from the GROUND.

BREAKING the same old GROUND.

Manson15Marilyn
06-14-2012, 09:42 AM
I don't think there is A secret meaning. But there are alot of layers and Manson said himself that he is trying to create confusion.I agree. He writes things in his lyrics that only he feels, and other people won't know what exactly it means. But he does use his brain to layer it more to make it sound more confusing. He is elaborate with words.

To add, though, I'd say he's not attempting to allude to the past; but rather he has a way of seeing things that can connect common themes he comes up with. For example,
"I'm the host with vaseline" - "VCR's and vaseline, TV-fucked by plastic-queen.I can see lines like these connecting through his way of explaining how television, the media, etc. work in our culture.

And its that which causes me to doubt that lines like
Creator
Preserver
Destroyer
Ask which one I amconnect to something as oblique as the trilogy that he wrote years ago. In fact, for something like this I still have yet to hear an explanation as to why that line would connect with the trilogy.


The main character in HOLY WOOD (in the shadow of the valley of death) does not create anything, nor is he portrayed as a god in any way. In fact, he destroyed HOLY WOOD in order to give it to his people. But that's what the Antichrist did, as well, in Antichrist Svperstar. And what did Omega do that preserved anything? In all three stories, its about self-preservation and the mistakes made by the main characters; yet each of them at realise those mistakes and make a change by the end. Its way too broad to say its a reference to the trilogy


At the deep bottom of Mansons art there are nihilism and emptiness, on the level deeper than books and flowers. It's what drives him and what fucks him over. Again, and again ... If Manson suddenly becomes activated by love, psychedelia or both, and change his entire core. Now is the time. I don't believe it would work though ... I would love a hippie Manson at this time, but, ehh. He already exists. XP Manson's nihilist? And he wouldn't have to be a hippie to be driven by positive things like love...

brian219
06-14-2012, 02:19 PM
And its that which causes me to doubt that lines like


Creator
Preserver
Destroyer
Ask which one I am

connect to something as oblique as the trilogy that he wrote years ago. In fact, for something like this I still have yet to hear an explanation as to why that line would connect with the trilogy.

I can see Destroyer connecting to disintegrator, but that's about it.

I think he's just using the Hindu trinity to make a vague statement that he doesn't consider himself all three of those things. The debate becomes "does he consider himself a 'creator' as an artist? Or a 'destroyer' as someone who is attempting to bring about change by knocking down all the old ways of thinking?" He's certainly not "preserver" since that would be someone who wants to maintain the status quo. I'd call him "destroyer" since his MO has always been to be the wrecking ball who knocks down walls and stale mentalities. He's not a creator. He's a hand grenade.

1984
06-15-2012, 05:08 AM
I think Manson has said the word "and" twice in his career... Could this mean something? Let's find the hidden metaphors.

This...

Manson15Marilyn
06-18-2012, 11:10 AM
I can see Destroyer connecting to disintegrator, but that's about it.

I think he's just using the Hindu trinity to make a vague statement that he doesn't consider himself all three of those things. The debate becomes "does he consider himself a 'creator' as an artist? Or a 'destroyer' as someone who is attempting to bring about change by knocking down all the old ways of thinking?" He's certainly not "preserver" since that would be someone who wants to maintain the status quo. I'd call him "destroyer" since his MO has always been to be the wrecking ball who knocks down walls and stale mentalities. He's not a creator. He's a hand grenade.I do find it interesting how similar the i ching and the hindu mythology can be at times. Like you said, with 3 hindu gods; their attributes are pretty much exactly representative of the i ching trigrams:


Creator = ☰ _ 乾 [qin], creative, the father of the family, the head of the body, the sky, the horse. This is a strong, and creative person.

Preserver = ☷ _ 坤 [kūn], receptive, the mother of the family, the belly of the body, earth, the cow. This is a devoted and friendly person.

Destroyer = ☳ _ 震 [zhn], arousing, the first born son of the family, the foot of the body, thunder, the dragon. This is a person with the ambition to cause change.

Celebrity Killing Spree
06-18-2012, 08:54 PM
A lot of his lyrics are open ended enough as to seem related to just about anything. Particularly, given that Manson is an artist who almost exclusively delves into subject matter of a particular end of the spectrum. There's bound to be some thematic and lyrical overlap. But that doesn't mean it was intentionally designed to reference any past song in any significant way. A lot of this is at best specious and for the most part just silly.

This thread is like reading a Where's Waldo book, if it were written by Franz Kafka.

But I'm not trying to be a snarky, know-it-all, thread killer. Just feeling cheeky and bored. Carry on folks, I won't spoil anyone's fun!

A Better Messiah
06-19-2012, 05:00 AM
By this logic anyone who connected with Manson's work would be selfish nihilists who see destruction as art. You may be on to something.

This may be the greatest summation of Marilyn Manson the man, the artist, and his entire fanbase I have ever heard.

M Tragedy666
06-19-2012, 07:18 AM
All sarcasm aside, for better or for worse, the above does describe me very well.

A Better Messiah
06-19-2012, 10:01 AM
All sarcasm aside, for better or for worse, the above does describe me very well.

Same. I wouldn't consider myself totally "selfish," but I am definitely nihilistic to a point and believe that one cannot create without destruction. It all adds up to me. Concerning the selfishness, I would say that self-involved might describe me better.

M Tragedy666
06-19-2012, 11:49 PM
I don't really understand why being "selfish" is such a bad thing. In this society, there is a certain stigma about it. That it is an undesirable characteristic. As a child, my selfishness saved me from the other retard kids trying to fuck up my toys and get my game console controllers sticky. People want to borrow things. Then they break them or never give them back. There was a time once when I was naive and let people walk all over me. As an adult, my selfishness has done nothing but save me from bad situations.

This is not to say that I can't turn it off or that I am selfish 100% of the time. I can already see some people reading too much into these words. My only point is that a general overall "selfishness" in your everyday life is not such a bad thing. Of course this does not always come into effect when dealing with friends or loved ones. ...Well, some of the time maybe.

A Better Messiah
06-20-2012, 09:33 AM
I don't really understand why being "selfish" is such a bad thing. In this society, there is a certain stigma about it. That it is an undesirable characteristic. As a child, my selfishness saved me from the other retard kids trying to fuck up my toys and get my game console controllers sticky. People want to borrow things. Then they break them or never give them back. There was a time once when I was naive and let people walk all over me. As an adult, my selfishness has done nothing but save me from bad situations.

This is not to say that I can't turn it off or that I am selfish 100% of the time. I can already see some people reading too much into these words. My only point is that a general overall "selfishness" in your everyday life is not such a bad thing. Of course this does not always come into effect when dealing with friends or loved ones. ...Well, some of the time maybe.

No, there's nothing wrong with being selfish, depending on the definition. I think that there is a greater problem with the definition of the word than there is with the application of it. People have no problem being selfish today.

Atom
06-27-2012, 06:32 AM
I don't really understand why being "selfish" is such a bad thing. In this society, there is a certain stigma about it. That it is an undesirable characteristic. As a child, my selfishness saved me from the other retard kids trying to fuck up my toys and get my game console controllers sticky. People want to borrow things. Then they break them or never give them back. There was a time once when I was naive and let people walk all over me. As an adult, my selfishness has done nothing but save me from bad situations.

This is not to say that I can't turn it off or that I am selfish 100% of the time. I can already see some people reading too much into these words. My only point is that a general overall "selfishness" in your everyday life is not such a bad thing. Of course this does not always come into effect when dealing with friends or loved ones. ...Well, some of the time maybe.

Nothing you mentioned is considered "selfish". Not letting irresponsible people borrow your shit is not selfish. Not allowing people to walk all over you is not selfish. You need to look up the definition of the word "selfish".

Being selfish is when you only give a crap about yourself and are not concerned about the negative impact your wants/needs have on others.