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View Full Version : 'Hey, Cruel World...' & 'Overneath The Path Of Misery'



SampleOfSoul
06-27-2012, 05:34 PM
No connection there, the topic is just about these songs.

I pasted the

"Hey, cruel world
You don't have what it takes
We don't need your faith,
We've got fucking fate"

on Facebook today and my SO asked me what it means to me. She's a firm believer in fate and I'm not, so it obviously ended in a prolonged discussion and in the end I actually didn't know what to do with these, seemingly simple, lyrics anymore.

Is Manson trying to say that the world is cruel because it provides faith which is useless and meaningless? Or is the world cruel because it has to bow down to fate? Or is it cruel because it thinks it can act against it? Is it somehow connected to the creator-preserver-destroyer trinity? Is he actually stating that he himself is determining the fate of the world? But then, why would he call it cruel, cruel to whom? What is Manson's position in this, is he against the world, or just accepting to be a part of it? Is he the creator of fate, or destroyer of it, or just its pawn? I think you can see where my general confusion comes from, so I'll leave it at that.

The other verse is:

"No Macbeth confessed Oedipus no longer present tense"

I know both Macbeth and Oedipus (not personally :P), but am confused with this lyric because of the negation at the beginning, and the "present tense" at the end. I figured it was a wordplay, but if it is, it's beyond me. Maybe due to English not being my primary language. Any insights?

Celebrity Killing Spree
06-27-2012, 06:10 PM
SO? ... Superior officer?? ... Sexy octogenarian?

Anyway, I always took the "we've got fate" line to mean that we make our own fate. As in I don't sit around and hope that things will happen (faith) I create my own fate.

Goodbye, cruel world is a cliche suicide statement. Manson saying "Hey, cruel world" is issuing a challenge. It's saying I'm not going to lay down and die but fight.

As for the other line, when I first heard it in the BV film I thought he said "no longer pre-sentence" the second time. I must have been mistaken though because that's not how it appears in the lyrics.

thatrussianman
06-27-2012, 10:19 PM
SO = significant other

And I would take the lyrics (the way they're printed on the website) with a grain of salt, as there have been mistakes in the past. For example, look at the extra verse on slo-mo-tion page and the "5 or 500 million years ago" lyric on the children of cain page. I'm going to wait until Nick Kushner updates the NK with them, then we'll know for sure ...

The Empirical Guy
06-29-2012, 06:50 AM
No connection there, the topic is just about these songs.

I pasted the

"Hey, cruel world
You don't have what it takes
We don't need your faith,
We've got fucking fate"

on Facebook today and my SO asked me what it means to me. She's a firm believer in fate and I'm not, so it obviously ended in a prolonged discussion and in the end I actually didn't know what to do with these, seemingly simple, lyrics anymore.

Is Manson trying to say that the world is cruel because it provides faith which is useless and meaningless? Or is the world cruel because it has to bow down to fate? Or is it cruel because it thinks it can act against it? Is it somehow connected to the creator-preserver-destroyer trinity? Is he actually stating that he himself is determining the fate of the world? But then, why would he call it cruel, cruel to whom? What is Manson's position in this, is he against the world, or just accepting to be a part of it? Is he the creator of fate, or destroyer of it, or just its pawn? I think you can see where my general confusion comes from, so I'll leave it at that.


Manson stated in a recent interview how the line "Hey, cruel world/ You don't have what it takes" was something he wrote on his door when he locked himself away from the world prior to him embarking on the journey of this album's creation (there's an old photo of it on his FB, I think). He mentions how the first line is often used to start suicide notes, but then is saying the world does not have what it takes to get him to kill himself, he will stand up and fight back.
As for the rest, given Manson and Twiggy's fascination with LOST, I had considered it a possible nod towards that, which deals with the concepts of faith and fate, and fate vs free will.
In a simple term though, the line (to me) seems to be addressing the clear difference between the two schools of thought. Someone with faith believes that things will turn out, but fate implies that regardless of belief, action or anything else, what will be will be - praying (faith, as in religion) will not make a difference.



As for the other line, when I first heard it in the BV film I thought he said "no longer pre-sentence" the second time. I must have been mistaken though because that's not how it appears in the lyrics.

There are lots of different ways to hear that. The lyric is "no longer present tense", but with the way he says it and typical Manson wordplay, it could be "no longer pre's in tense" ("pre's in tense" as in pretense... no more pretense), it could be "no longer present (as in current) tense", or "no longer present (as in put forward or display) tense" as in being tense or uptight.



And I would take the lyrics (the way they're printed on the website) with a grain of salt, as there have been mistakes in the past. For example, look at the extra verse on slo-mo-tion page and the "5 or 500 million years ago" lyric on the children of cain page. I'm going to wait until Nick Kushner updates the NK with them, then we'll know for sure ...

I wouldn't expect Nick to be some guiding light on the lyrics. He'll either copy-paste them from Born Villain, or transcribe them from what we hear on the CD, and then the argument is did they get the lyrics on the website wrong, or did Manson just sing it differently on the spur of the moment? There are previous examples of last minute changes or just plain slip-ups that happen when recording, and the official lyrics of the song aren't necessarily changed to match.

kleiner352
06-29-2012, 06:18 PM
I think Empirical Guy really said all there is to say.

As for the website-to-what's-sang level of accuracy, plenty of bands have different vocals sang than what are in the booklet/liner notes quite often, hell, some even have entire verses that are in the liner notes but never sang (Nine Inch Nails is a great example of this, all the way back to the first album). So I wouldn't worry too much about it, interpret as you may, so to speak.

The "No Macbeth confessed Oedipus no longer present tense", just grammatically speaking I don't understand the sentence and don't bother trying to.

A Better Messiah
06-30-2012, 07:23 AM
I've always heard the Macbeth/Oedipus line as follows:

"No Macbeth confessed Oedipus no longer present tense
No Macbeth confessed Oedipus no longer pre-sentence."

I know that apparently that's now how it is, nor do I have much faith that this will help much, but since we're on the topic...

The Empirical Guy
06-30-2012, 10:47 PM
^ Just add it to the list of possibilites I already mentioned. They're all plausible. Would also tie in a 'confession' with a 'sentence' as in what you get for a crime.

A Better Messiah
07-02-2012, 10:45 AM
^^That's what I was thinking with my interpretation. I think that it can be read/heard a few ways, honestly, and to just limit it to one (especially with Marilyn Manson) is to overlook a lot of possibilities, at least some of which were very intentional.

Fav
07-08-2012, 10:37 PM
The Empirical Guy, what interview is that? I remember the lyrics being written on his door, and reached a similar conclusion in what the lyric "hey, cruel world" means in both his music and personal life, as well as the obvious and fuckin' cool spin on Pink Floyd's classic "Goodbye, Cruel World", but I don't remember watching that interview.

The Empirical Guy
07-09-2012, 02:53 AM
For the life of me I cannot remember, sorry. Just one of the pieces floating around at the album's release, though I have no idea which one. If no one else knows it'll come back to me eventually.

scd
07-09-2012, 11:56 PM
It is truely enlightening to dig inside the persephone myth in order to know what this song is about.
Basically in the myth Persephone was the daughter of Zeus and her uncle Hades fell in love with her, and one day while she was collecting flowers, the earth opened and through the cracks Hades came and kidnap her ("I never thought you’d see the asphalt crack, crack, crack like black eggshell."

After Persephone beeing kidnaped and drawn to hell she became the goddes of hell. I found here a pretty smart simile between Persephone and the Manson persona, someone whether Hades or the media dragged to hell Persephone/Manson in to became the "bad guy" the "god/dess of hell" to the public eye. "The Rape of Persephone, was a marketing scheme"---"rape rape rape per so phony"