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View Full Version : Born Villain Tour Analyses [Hey, Cruel World... - Twins Of Evil - Masters of Madness]



S.D.
09-30-2012, 10:23 PM
The title speaks for itself, and may include some backtracking over past posts or topics, given I don't think this one's been consolidated properly yet. Better late than never though, eh...?

Imagery, motifs, mottos, backdrops, everything and anything from the Born Villain touring schedule and performance you wish to analyse, please submit here.
Like many of you, I've noticed the thematic has turned up a notch each stage (pun intended) of the tour; stripped and sloppy to begin with (seeming to deliberately coincide with the live, down-under atmosphere), then transferring to a more streamline, balls-out approach when it surfaced back in America and Europe.
Now there's the Twins Of Evil extension, and straight off the bat I thought about THIS (http://www.providermodule.com/forum/showthread.php/4622-02-Sept-29-2012-Rock-Vegas-Las-Vegas-Nevada-USA?p=129706&viewfull=1#post129706) (feel free to continue it through here), and then this:-



http://providermodule.com/Administrators/S.D./analysis_bv/1984_hate.png

http://providermodule.com/Administrators/S.D./analysis_bv/twins_banner_mm.png



For those unfamiliar the second comparison is between Manson's current backdrop of his own visage, and the 'Big Brother' banner present during the 'Two Minute Hate', seen in the 1984 film adaptation of, well... Nineteen Eighty-Four, George Orwell's seminal dystopia novel.
I know Manson has spoken recently about the new tour design evoking films with a dark-future theme, - Blade Runner springs immediately to mind - so given the direct references to Orwell in both literary and cinematic form during his career, I'd say this was a strong contender.

These next cinematic links aren't quite so easy to confirm, but it's what I noted first-off so I'll share. The comparisons are between Manson's Void Of Course skull mask - worn onstage - and lead antagonists the Kurgan [Highlander, 1986], and General Kael [Willow, 1988]. Both male characters are sword-wielding warriors (recall if you will Manson's rapier from the Revolver Dean Karr shoot), featuring in fantasy adventures, and whose names begin with a 'K'.


http://providermodule.com/Administrators/S.D./analysis_bv/skull_manson_cruel.png

http://providermodule.com/Administrators/S.D./analysis_bv/skull_kurgan.png http://providermodule.com/Administrators/S.D./analysis_bv/skull_kael.png


There's a few places to be starting off at, I am sure others will bring plenty to the table.

The Wax Gentleman
09-30-2012, 11:22 PM
I'm very proud of this find, but nobody seems to think it's legitimate. There's a scene in The Holy Mountain where the Alchemist is wrapping electrical tape around his hand:
http://i.imgur.com/dc6Jk.png

And Marilyn Manson frequently has electrical tape around his hands and arms during performances.

Twiggy Ramirez is frequently dressed in witch-like clothing on stage, perhaps referencing the witches from Macbeth...? I don't know, it seems plausible, given his frequent use of masks.


I assume by "Born Villain tour" you mean things that only exist with this tour, which isn't a whole lot of things. The Twins of Evil tour is fucking amazing, don't get me wrong, but obviously it borrows from a lot of past concepts from past tours. There's lots to say about the Shock Logo, Celebritarian cross, The Dope Show setup, etc, but that isn't exclusive to the Born Villain tour. The only real thing exclusive to the Born Villain tour would be that mask, that feathery boa, and a few little things. But it's the little things that count, so maybe there's a lot to say in that respect.

One thing I'm really curious about is the background of the Twins of Evil poster:

http://www.mansonwiki.com/w/images/a/a0/ToE.jpg

What are those symbols?

And this from the Hey Cruel World video:

http://i.imgur.com/l8FLI.png

What's he standing against? Maybe these are blatantly obvious and I'm being a moron, but if so, please cure me of my idiocy. Thanks!

http://providermodule.com/Administrators/S.D./analysis_bv/skull_kael.png

(This guy's sword looks EXACTLY like the one from the Revolver shoot! That's really cool.)

EDIT: I suppose things that weren't originally portrayed during any of the Triptych performances, such as the Red Pope Costume would be interesting to post here. Whatever, it's not up to me.

Para-Noir
10-01-2012, 02:47 AM
The Cross of Lorraine in the sky reminds me of the monolith in the movie 2001 floating through space, but I am probably the only one ;p

A Better Messiah
10-01-2012, 08:45 AM
I'm gonna submit my post for Conspiracy Theory of the Thread before Brian inevitably shows up and takes the ache (and beats me, too): It really seems that the Born Villain Era is the closest thing we'll get to the long-scrapped Celebritarian Era. The Cross of Lorraine has been its official symbol, going so far as to have it on the disc, the song "Slo-Mo-Tion" is about using cameras as weapons (as Manson touched upon in an interview), much like the thesis of "Lamb of God," and now the IngSoc sign practically framed with the Crosses of Lorraine? I'm really seeing it.

Scribbler
10-01-2012, 10:53 AM
One thing I'm really curious about is the background of the Twins of Evil poster:

http://www.mansonwiki.com/w/images/a/a0/ToE.jpg

What are those symbols?



The first thing that came up to my mind when i was the Twins of Evil tour poster, was this:

http://991.com/newGallery/Marilyn-Manson-Disposable-Teens-170415.jpg

also..

http://www.halloweentownstore.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/TS341.gif

http://www.nachtkabarett.com/ihvh/img/king_and_queen.jpg

There really seems to be a lot of Celebritarian/Holy Wood era themes around this tour. Besides the pope costume, most of all is the cross of lorraine over the stage like the cross of guns was on GGG tour.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/ArchDandy69/guncross.png

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w155/ArchDandy69/crossofflorraine.png

The Wax Gentleman
10-01-2012, 12:51 PM
I'm gonna submit my post for Conspiracy Theory of the Thread before Brian inevitably shows up and takes the ache (and beats me, too): It really seems that the Born Villain Era is the closest thing we'll get to the long-scrapped Celebritarian Era. The Cross of Lorraine has been its official symbol, going so far as to have it on the disc, the song "Slo-Mo-Tion" is about using cameras as weapons (as Manson touched upon in an interview), much like the thesis of "Lamb of God," and now the IngSoc sign practically framed with the Crosses of Lorraine? I'm really seeing it.

I think there's a lot to think about with Born Villain, and a lot to decode. People get trashed whenever they try to dissect Born Villain and make it sound "cryptic," when all they're doing is following what the flow of things has been for the last 20 years. It is clear there is a lot to Born Villain that isn't fully understood yet, but people are constantly denying that, and I can't figure out why.

A Better Messiah
10-01-2012, 03:10 PM
I think there's a lot to think about with Born Villain, and a lot to decode. People get trashed whenever they try to dissect Born Villain and make it sound "cryptic," when all they're doing is following what the flow of things has been for the last 20 years. It is clear there is a lot to Born Villain that isn't fully understood yet, but people are constantly denying that, and I can't figure out why.

Yeah, it really is different from all other Eras and while I think there is a lot to analyse, it should be approached differently than Antichrist Superstar or The High End of Low. It's both very straightforward and also rather vague. I do think that the Celebritarian themes are very present throughout, though.

brian219
10-01-2012, 05:51 PM
I think there's a lot to think about with Born Villain, and a lot to decode. People get trashed whenever they try to dissect Born Villain and make it sound "cryptic," when all they're doing is following what the flow of things has been for the last 20 years. It is clear there is a lot to Born Villain that isn't fully understood yet, but people are constantly denying that, and I can't figure out why.

I totally agree.


Yeah, it really is different from all other Eras and while I think there is a lot to analyse, it should be approached differently than Antichrist Superstar or The High End of Low. It's both very straightforward and also rather vague. I do think that the Celebritarian themes are very present throughout, though.

I totally agree.

Norsefire
10-01-2012, 09:58 PM
@thisusernameisnowinuse I think that Twins of Evil poster is just something MansonWiki made to put on their website to advertise the tour. Don't think I've seen it anywhere else.

There's a ton of cool stuff in this new tour stage design, hopefully I can comment on it more soon. I have a video recording of the speeches before Personal Jesus which I hope I can get up soon and then hopefully people can work those out. I can pick out a few and probably guess at some, it's cool to hear though.

TylerAlexander
10-03-2012, 12:05 AM
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-IgJOqevSwqo/UGolRPIweqI/AAAAAAAAPBc/fg58e7liRdk/s400/tumblr_mb667n7cQz1qepksso1_500.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7wYs8BhNZWI/UGolTEOAEQI/AAAAAAAAPBk/Hf6p6mMxH1g/s400/AmericanPsycho-PeelOffMasque.jpg

Norsefire
11-21-2012, 04:46 PM
I just want to add another thought to what S.D. already posted about the stage design and comparison to 1984.

V For Vendetta has been brought up a few times over the years with the use of the double cross in that film, although slightly different to Manson's, fans still draw connections between to the two.
And I think you could even compare the stage design to similar 1984 style scenes in V For Vendetta too.


http://www.providermodule.com/Administrators/norsefire/twins_vendetta_1.jpg



OK, that's just another a visual comparison, but I was thinking today about V sending out his masks and everyone wearing them at the end. Look at the Marilyn Manson VIP package and he's giving everyone a mask with that. I couldn't help but be reminded of it, I don't know why the comparison never came to me sooner. I thought it was a fun comparison and wanted to share it.


http://www.providermodule.com/Administrators/norsefire/twins_vendetta_2.jpg

FeedYourHead
11-21-2012, 04:51 PM
That first picture also reminds me of this (slo-mo-tion)

http://i.imgur.com/9Vkhy.jpg

Terrapin
11-26-2012, 08:39 PM
This tour could be viewed as a representation of the Triptych. All three parts recognizable in their proper reversed order.


Act I
Guns/Celebritarian/Holy Wood
http://www.trbimg.com/img-50844446/turbine/hc-marilyn-manson-rob-zombie-twins-evil-tour-m-001/600
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mdpsl76GcL1qmy4o8o1_500.jpg
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mb6xn2yHE91r9m7xgo1_500.jpg

Act II
Dopestar/Alpha/Mechanical Animals
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h388/ofillrepute/DSC00120.jpg
http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/loudwire.com/files/2012/10/Marilyn-Manson-3.jpg
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8460/8061376453_072032876e_b.jpg

Act III
Fascism/The Worm/Antichrist Svperstar
http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbu62jRAfi1qegp0bo6_1280.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h388/ofillrepute/DSC00153.jpg
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mba13mnfa11qepksso2_1280.jpg
http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h388/ofillrepute/DSC00200.jpg

The Wax Gentleman
11-26-2012, 09:11 PM
Oh shit, what's that last photo from?

brian219
11-28-2012, 12:03 AM
Has anyone mentioned that having the double cross placed horizontally above the stage makes the band look like marionettes in a puppet show?

http://www.learnersdictionary.com/art/ld/marionette.gif

http://i1107.photobucket.com/albums/h388/ofillrepute/DSC00120.jpg

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/c0.0.403.403/p403x403/523398_10151154198620787_674701511_n.jpg

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z300/JessicaWonka/Marilyn%20Manson%20Mechanical%20Animals/Puppets.jpg

"In French. marionette = "little Mary". One of the first figures to be made into a marionette was the Virgin Mary, hence the name."

Of course Mary and Marilyn are interchangeable names.

Norsefire
02-10-2013, 10:52 AM
Anyone got any thoughts on this new addition to the start of The Dope Show, where Marilyn Manson is now bringing a cake out and tossing it into the crowd.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-snc7/377724_422780951140875_1358438825_n.jpg

Hazekiah
02-10-2013, 05:07 PM
I asked him about that and he clarified that it's specifically a birthday cake at every show, which is now part of his tour rider agreement and provided for the band by each venue, lol.

Beyond that, however, I'm assuming that it's predominantly a play on the whole "white drugs" motif he's established, like the white arctic fox on his white jacket for the same song, as well as a celebration of everyone's "birthday" at the show as he officially declares "we're all stars now in the dope show." What better way to celebrate than by coating them in white cake frosting?

Plus, the fact that it's made from sugar (which he's frequently dumped on the audience from vials lately, too) even plays perfectly into the statements he made about the tempting-yet-hollow-yet-blissful-yet-depressing nature of other white, powdered drugs on Mechanical Animals, which in turn could be viewed as a wonderful extension of his earliest lyrics about sugar and identification with Willy Wonka, etc., etc., etc.

And then of course there's the matter of the song's allusions to queers, fags, oral sex, and cumming on the faces of the audience.

Which he *ahem* frosts...ifyouknowumsayin'.

>;)

Cringeon
02-10-2013, 05:11 PM
Didn't he also call Mechanical Animals the album a beautiful birthday cake at one point? It was something around the time of Holywood's release where he said MA is a beautiful bday cake, and HW is that same cake left out rotting in the rain or something to that effect. I can't recall the specifics but that was always a description of HW that stuck with me.

timoldbean
02-12-2013, 01:30 AM
I thought he was talking about GAOG regarding the MA / birthday cake... Radio 1 at some point during GAOG promo before it's release, I remember a rather short interview where he mentioned that.

arkahno
02-14-2013, 03:59 PM
also I think the cake may be a reference of his lines in "doppelherz"

"I'm like a birthday cake because I make everyone in the family cry"

and

"I am a birthday cake that we light up, blow out, cut apart and forget"

S.D.
02-14-2013, 04:57 PM
I really wish sometimes it didn't take me a day or more to construct an analysis post. Not because I don't like taking my time, but because when I finally get it finished, the bare bones are usually already in the topic!
So, here was what I had pencilled together at the start of the week, some of you guys have mentioned a few bits-and-pieces since:-

I'm really, really glad the cake emblem has been picked up on, it's by no means a facile prop. On the contrary, there's a veritable goldmine of Manson references in one simple gesture...


I asked him about that and he clarified that it's specifically a birthday cake at every show
A birthday cake makes perfect sense, given the band are touring an album called Born Villain.


"And all our yesterdays have lighted fools the way to dusty death.
Out, out brief candle. Life's but a walking shadow.
A poor player that struts and frets his hour upon the stage, and then is heard no more.
It is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury...
Signifying nothing."

http://www.providermodule.com/videography/images/t_born_villain.png

476

The Macbeth quotation can easily be attributed to the superficial nature of fame, which The Dope Show also addresses. The candle motif has been present since the very first imagery we witnessed from Born Villain, both in the project's name, and short film.

He's also referring specifically to his own trend of self-destruction in order to be re-born. Manson's birthday has been immortalised by the number 15, so the symbolism of destroying a birthday cake by kicking it to pieces implies a furthering of that self-destruction. The Dope Show was a flagship single for Mechanical Animals, which introduced the 15/birthday concept fully. Later, Born Again would discuss issues of superficiality; "I'm someone else, I'm someone new, I'm someone stupid just like you".

He has embodied himself as a cake before, also. During Doppelherz we hear the following:-


"I am a birthday cake, that you light up, blow out, cut apart, devour, and forget."


Then compare:-


EAT ME, DRINK ME . Devour . "fuck, eat, kill, et cetera"

Following on from the birth motif, there's Putting Holes In Happiness also:-

475

"Blow out the candles on all my Frankensteins
At least my death wish will come true
You taste like Valentine's
And we cry, you're like a birthday
I should've picked the photograph it lasted longer than you"

The candles on a birthday cake? How often now have candles been a key icon in Manson's lyrics or imagery? The "death wish" likely also refers to the tradition of blowing out candles on a birthday cake, at the same time making a secret wish to one's self in the hope it will come true; a 'birth wish' becomes 'death'.

I suppose, if we're considering the relationship between cake and The Dope Show, we can make the cognitive link between Cake And Sodomy and the homo-erotic nature of "the cops and queers", and pink-uniformed kissing in The Dope Show music video.


Didn't he also call Mechanical Animals the album a beautiful birthday cake at one point?

He did, although not in relation to Holy Wood, but The Golden Age Of Grotesque:-

"The new record brings out the dandy in me and accepting my life as my ultimate work of art as much as anything I create. Pushing the decadence to the limit. Much like I made the transition from Mechanical Animals, which was glamorous like a wonderful birthday cake.
But this is like leaving the cake outside and the worms get in it and it starts to stink a little bit. It's quite beautiful and grotesque and inspired by the depression era, Vaudeville, 30s Berlin."
Marilyn Manson, 2002 [BBC Radio 1 Rock Show]


Slightly jumbled because I am tired, but I hope these thoughts help.

blue angel
02-14-2013, 08:53 PM
I'm not seeing the direct connection between the song, The Dope Show and a Birthday cake though.

timoldbean
02-18-2013, 05:51 AM
I see it as a savoury extension of rockstars chucking the hotel's plasma TV out the balcony. That, in itself, is a good part of the Dope Show surely.

NapalmHeart
02-18-2013, 11:56 AM
Her door is suddenly kicked in with half-assed drunken force and the President leans against the
frame for support. He leers at Coma incoherently with a birthday cake in one hand. The candles
make ugly shadows across his face. Coma tries to hide Adam's box and the music but her nightgown
just comes open in the process.

"What's that playing? That's not my song..." He loses his frame of thought for a moment staring
at her pale exposed belly and thighs. "Are you too big to love daddy, now? You're all grown up
my little princesss...let me see."

He stumbles toward her and with his free hand begins to grope her breasts. She resists, for what
seems like the first time, and rips open his silk shirt. What she sees beneath is more
disgusting than his pathetic molestation. His almost translucent skin is varicose and wrinkled.
On his shoulders and chest he wears prosthetic pads that are snapped onto his skin with tiny
stainless steel fasteners to augment his youthful, healthy shape. The material his fake muscles
are made of looks wet and gelatinous like raw chicken meat.

He is too drunk to be embarrassed, so he tears away the rest of his clothes stumbling toward her
with some sort of elastic garter that holds his veiny erection upright. The cake with her face
painted on it, smears down his leg onto the floor.

"Daddy, loves you. You know that's why we have to do this."

As he reaches for her arm, she pulls away and grabs a six inch tall marble statue of her father
from her desk. With all her strength and eighteen years of resentment she smashes his across the
forehead with it, breaking the statue and splitting open a large horizontal gash above his brow.
He falls, bleeding and covered in cake. The gaping wound seems to frown above his closed eyes.
She drops the statue, even though she knows he's still alive.

-- Holy Wood (novel)

Saklas
03-02-2013, 07:57 AM
NapalmHeart, very nice contribution ;-)

This thread is awesome! I've missed you's guise!

Norsefire
06-21-2013, 07:28 AM
A random thought popped into my head last night about the stage during this tour being covered in scraps of newspaper and then Marilyn Manson shredding up the bible's again and how it can related back to WFA lyrics.
Probably not the intention, but never thought about that before, not even thinking back to before when he used to rip up the bible.


"We turn literature into litter"

http://www.seethemuzic.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/Marilyn-Manson-performing-on-The-Twins-of-Evil-Tour-at-DTE-Energy-Music-Theatre-Clarkston-MI-October-12th-2012-photo-by-Marc-Nader-9394.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/MaAvW.jpg

NapalmHeart
06-22-2013, 06:45 AM
http://youtu.be/DSQLd19EoAg


So take your little black book
I see the way that you look into it
I’ll eat it and I’ll cut my tongue
And all the pages you spread,
‘Sweet as honey,’ you said
But I’m choking on your bitter stories

By the way, I don't know if that's intentional or simply because it's easier to perform for the crew, but I noticed that the newspapers are always local newspapers from the city/country they play in.

crowded_morgue
07-13-2013, 08:23 PM
With the current leg, ongoing, I think that the insecurities and psychological trauma that created Born Villain are now finished. I feel like this summer's tour is (to a certain extent) a different animal from the three segments that precede it. Where there was the silliness and sarcasm or 'jazz and dada' of the Born Villain sort, the blissfulness and tragicomedy of the Born Villain show - at this point, that's all been relinquished. The current tour is more of a serious and atmospheric effort, undoubtedly. I do think that this has something to do with how much interaction with fans that Manson's had over the past months, which is great for us. I also think that it's part of a transitional process toward the next level of this artist's canon, which is great for us. Collaborative endeavors aside, or not, Manson should know by now that he isn't some throwback rockstar lost out of the 90's, needing to "come back," and that his relevance remains among a thoughtful lot.

Norsefire
07-24-2013, 07:18 AM
I know Manson has mentioned Wild In The Streets before, and then mentioned that the tour was in some ways based on that film. I still haven't watched it, but I came across this image today and I guess this is exactly where some elements from the end of Manson's show came from.
This comparison is more relevant to the performance of Antichrist Superstar because you've got the podium / face backdrop.

http://dryden.eastmanhouse.org/media/wild.jpg

Norsefire
08-22-2013, 07:57 AM
I will stick this post in here, out of nowhere today I was thinking how Spencer's make up was actually similar to one of the faces Manson had in TGAOG artwork. I never thought about it before.


http://i40.tinypic.com/4gt3d2.jpg

0m3ga
08-22-2013, 02:17 PM
It's just a similar photo, other than that they're worlds apart.

Norsefire
08-23-2013, 07:42 AM
well yeah obviously it's not exactly the same... but I liked how it was similar.