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View Full Version : Parallel Albums Theory (or P.A.T. for short)



brian219
01-01-2013, 04:38 PM
I've been noticing that certain themes seem to run across the same track numbers on different Manson albums.

I'll demonstrate with track two, although this phenomenon occurs with all track numbers.

Beautiful People? Dope Show (lots of pretty, pretty ones...)? Love Song (I got a crush on a pretty pistol/ She tells me I'm a pretty bullet)? Pretty as a Swastika? ALL track 2s.

The others, while not explicitly using the words 'pretty ' or 'beautiful' all contain similar themes concerning aesthetics and fascism (the sky was blond like her/I should have picked the photograph/No Reflection/etc.)

In addition to this weirdness, each track number seems to correspond to the overall themes of the corresponding albums. By this I mean that ALL of MMs track 1s seem to share the overarching theme of POAF, all the track 2s match ACSS, and so on. It's possible that if this continues we can predict what albums 9 and 10 will be like thematically, and perhaps aesthetically, based purely on previous albums' 9th and 10th tracks.

1984
01-01-2013, 05:42 PM
This is insane...

brian219
01-01-2013, 06:52 PM
This is insane...

Yes, but is it true?

Track 6s seem to deal with self-pity/regret/being controlled by an inner voice. GOAG seems to do the exact opposite, where it's from the point of view of the one causing the suffering, and controlling, rather than giving the POV of the victim. It does, however contain Dope Hat's theme of the audience not understanding what is actually happening on stage (Fail to see the tragic, turn it into magic/Say what you want but filth is all that they hear). Despite GAOG's POV shift, all track 6s represent the suffering martyr, as displayed in detail on album 6: Eat Me, Drink Me.

Dope Hat - Fail to see the anguish in my eyes/Fail to see the tragic/the hat is wearing me, etc.
Cryptorchid - When the worm consumes the boy/When they get to you, etc.
Speed of Pain - I wanna outrace the speed of pain/Times you hate it, it always seems to last/When you think your free the crack inside your fucking heart is me
President Dead - We know that suffering is so much better/we all can't be martyred in the winter of our discontent/every night we are nailed into place
GAOG - We are the low art gloominati and we aim to depress
HSG - Don't break my heart/Making me low/It'll heal but it won't forget
Blank and White - If it's too dumb to see or say, you still sing it/your demons want to give you a proper goodbye/I want to sell you hate
The Gardener - (*)


At least three of these songs mocks the listener and treats them with disdain for not "getting it." Fail to see the tragic, turn it into magic. Say what you want but filth is all that they hear. If it's too dumb to see or say, you still sing it.





(*) [This one is different in that it displays these themes by using them rather than just discussing them. The song "aims to depress" in that it tries to convince the listener that true relationships or love or whatever is impossible because whoever you are with will inevitably not match your mental concept of them. The Gardener subtly plants a seed in the listeners mind that is intended to grow as a worm, a crack in the heart, etc.]

1984
01-01-2013, 07:59 PM
I understand what you are getting at. This last post should have been the original post as it makes a lot more sense... The original made me feel that you were looking into something that kind of wasn't there. But yes, very clear parallel's and it's interesting that someone brought it up :)

Mexicanfiend
01-01-2013, 08:46 PM
After reading the first post I thought: "this guy is delusional and is over-thinking something that sounds like a total non-sensical idea". After a second reading I start thinking about it and, even if I had nothing constructive to add to the topic, I'll keep an eye on it to see how the ideas develop.

brian219
01-01-2013, 09:47 PM
After reading the first post I thought: "this guy is delusional and is over-thinking something that sounds like a total non-sensical idea". After a second reading I start thinking about it and, even if I had nothing constructive to add to the topic, I'll keep an eye on it to see how the ideas develop.

Oh, I'm totally delusional. But don't let that get in the way.

Continuing with this line of thought, tracks numbered 10 seem to involve a formidible, monstrous figure and deal with something along the lines of ruin or disease. A user and a taker. The POV shifts around, sometimes referring to this figure as "him" and sometimes from his/her POV, but the theme remains the same regardless of pronouns. "I am you," after all.

Sweet Tooth - I make the faces that make you cry/I will break you inside out/My disease, disease is draining me/You are mine

Angel With The Scabbed Wings - Hard-drug face, want to powder his nose/He will deflower the freshest crop, dry up all the wombs with his rock and roll sores/He does what he please/He is the taker/You're never gonna leave him

New Model No. 15 - I can choke and diet on coke/I can suck it and smile/I'm the new, new model, I've got nothing inside/Or that you use your lovers

The Nobodies - Today I am dirty/I know now that I'm forever dirt

Spade - You drained my heart and made a spade/Like they're begging for dope and hoping/Burn your empty rain down on me

You & Me & the Devil Makes 3 - I'm just a prison of property, buckets full of better misery/There's not a word for what I want to do to you/Killer/

Wight Spider - And I won't make you kneel...for anyone but me/Wrap my claws round your mouth tight/We'll consume each other until theres nothing left to hide

Lay Down Your Goddamn Arms - I’m not of this world, you’re not in this heart/Gotta burn it/There isn’t a key, you can use on me

At first glance, New Model 15 seems like the weakest link, dealing less with a figure that takes or is formidible in any way, instead describing a hollow archetype. But if compared to, say, Spade, that very hollowness is itself a recurring element. With this in mind the New Model may very well be what's left after the spider has had it's meal.

kleiner352
01-02-2013, 09:43 AM
Well shit, if this is true then you know that Manson just sits there with a flow chart of each track number and allowable subjects/content and thinks "TWIGGY! Twigster, what number are we- WHAT NUMBER ARE WE ON?! SEVEN?! OKAY! Seven it is..." and tiredly writes the same material over and over wishing he had never started this godless and forsaken concept in the first place.

suphiafilos
01-02-2013, 10:17 AM
I don't think that Manson thinks that all musics number 2 must be about "pretty things", numbers 6 about self-pity/regret/being and numbers 10 about dealing with monsters, etc.

What I think that happens is that Manson happens to tell us a story through his albuns, and like any other story there's always some kind of twist. If you look at his albuns, they have nearly the same amount of songs, which means that this twist may happen in correspondent number of song with previous albuns.

This is just my opinion, and I found yours interesting too. :D

S.D.
01-02-2013, 11:23 AM
This idea is not anywhere near as complicated as it's being made out. A film script, storyboard, novel or theatre production will more-often-than-not follow the three-act structure. Marilyn Manson albums usually fit this model by definition of the fact that he always tells a story. It doesn't matter how loose the story is, or what it's about, the model applies, and as book chapters are to film scenes, so film scenes are to album tracks.
I don't know if this topic is trying to imply an ordering system generated via numerical black magic or just making tenuous connections, but in either case it's just basic structuralism.

Portrait Of An American Family is potentially the only exception to the rule because it was an album comprised by statements. Each song was a different idea, criticism, or observation Manson had in his head since the band's inception that ended up settled next to one another. It's only production that lends them the illusion of linear ordering. Albums have to start and end, it'll always feel like a journey.
Things were obviously upturned on Antichrist Superstar, and in many ways, even if the themes have changed, Manson got comfortable structuring his records a certain way with ...Superstar and The Triptych overall. Still though, besides being introductory, tracks like Prelude (The Family Trip) or Great Big White World have nothing in common with one another, or Thaeter, If I Was Your Vampire and Hey, Cruel World... for that matter.

In short, the start of a Manson album will generally concern bombastic and sarcastic songs, to kick things into action. The centre-point becomes more self-analytical but not maudlin, and when hope is abandoned, the closure of an album either goes for emotional introspection or defiance. It's a nice structure to use, some artists flounder when it comes to giving their albums a 'shape', so you feel like it's just a collection of songs. I've only ever gotten that feeling from Portrait Of An American Family, but I get that, for the reasons given above.

suphiafilos
01-02-2013, 12:29 PM
^exactly what I tried to say, however more elaborated ;)

brian219
01-02-2013, 11:04 PM
This idea is not anywhere near as complicated as it's being made out. A film script, storyboard, novel or theatre production will more-often-than-not follow the three-act structure. Marilyn Manson albums usually fit this model by definition of the fact that he always tells a story. It doesn't matter how loose the story is, or what it's about, the model applies, and as book chapters are to film scenes, so film scenes are to album tracks.
I don't know if this topic is trying to imply an ordering system generated via numerical black magic or just making tenuous connections, but in either case it's just basic structuralism.

Portrait Of An American Family is potentially the only exception to the rule because it was an album comprised by statements. Each song was a different idea, criticism, or observation Manson had in his head since the band's inception that ended up settled next to one another. It's only production that lends them the illusion of linear ordering. Albums have to start and end, it'll always feel like a journey.
Things were obviously upturned on Antichrist Superstar, and in many ways, even if the themes have changed, Manson got comfortable structuring his records a certain way with ...Superstar and The Triptych overall. Still though, besides being introductory, tracks like Prelude (The Family Trip) or Great Big White World have nothing in common with one another, or Thaeter, If I Was Your Vampire and Hey, Cruel World... for that matter.

In short, the start of a Manson album will generally concern bombastic and sarcastic songs, to kick things into action. The centre-point becomes more self-analytical but not maudlin, and when hope is abandoned, the closure of an album either goes for emotional introspection or defiance. It's a nice structure to use, some artists flounder when it comes to giving their albums a 'shape', so you feel like it's just a collection of songs. I've only ever gotten that feeling from Portrait Of An American Family, but I get that, for the reasons given above.

I find this explanation flawed. I agree with the three act aspect being present in Manson's works but find that that fact fails to explain the synchronicities across track numbers for the simple reason that some albums are longer than others. Why would track 10 on an 11 track album be at the same place within a three-act structure as track 10 on a 17 track album. Obviously the length of acts can vary and there are no rules that say they have to be any length in relation to each other, but that would still fail to illustrate a reason for this pattern, assuming it continues to be present on other track numbers (which admittedly I haven't checked yet).

Also, kleiner, I think what you described there would certainly be less tedious than encoding the Fibonacci sequence into an album. But I don't think that what this theory describes is anywhere as limiting as how it seems to sound to you. Just because these themes may be present in those songs doesn't mean that is all those songs are. Every song would have to serve it's purpose in the narrative of the album it's on first and foremost and any connection with previous or future works may be an afterthought tacked on in the final stages of the writing process.

But anyway, I've only taken a look at two track numbers so far and it's possible that the pattern doesn't hold up anyway. At any rate it will all be subject to interpretation and therefore it can never be agreed upon one way or the other. I'm just posting my thoughts and findings on the matter in case anyone else wants to join in and have a look.

One question that does come to mind about this is what to do about track numbers that aren't on every album. EMDM having the shortist tracklist would seem to limit analysis of all 8 albums to 11 tracks only. No idea yet.

Another aspect that is implied is that the each album's track that corresponds with it's number as an album would define that album. Therefore, theoretically, these songs would be the definitive tracks that most represent their album's concept:

1/1 Prelude (The Family Trip)
2/2 Beautiful People
3/3 Mechanical Animals
4/4 Disposable Teens
5/5 Use Your Fist And Not Your Mouth
6/6 Heart-Shaped Glasses
7/7 Running to the Edge of the World
8/8 Children of Cain

Sans Agendum
01-03-2013, 06:42 PM
Seeing as nobody else is going to say it...

"solvved"

brian219
01-03-2013, 07:05 PM
Seeing as nobody else is going to say it...

"solvved"

OMG! ROTFL! You totally made me squirt my milk out of my nose! It's just like that thing! The one with the codes! That's so clever and hilarious, all I can say is bravo. I almost cannot believe that in all of these years no one has thought to do something like that. I guess it always takes a great innovator to come up with something so original and stunningly funny. Congratulations! That was incredible.

necrospasms
01-03-2013, 07:07 PM
You can find parallels like this in any one artist's body of work if you look and try hard enough.
Manson really played up the cryptic symbol shit during Holy Wood in order to make a pretty lackluster album seem more interesting. The gimmick was fun at the time, but now?
Let's move on.

brian219
01-03-2013, 07:16 PM
Let's move on.

To what exactly? There's not really much to talk about with the current material. The Born Villain analysis threads already felt tired when the album had been out a month. There's been a recent attempt to discuss the previous album, but that thread's already winding down.

Mexicanfiend
01-03-2013, 08:26 PM
Blah blah blah...
Manson really played up the cryptic symbol shit during Holy Wood in order to make a pretty lackluster album seem more interesting (...)
Let's move on.

There's where your comment lost all credibility, at least to me. Move on, indeed.

Sans Agendum
01-03-2013, 08:57 PM
OMG! ROTFL! You totally made me squirt my milk out of my nose! It's just like that thing! The one with the codes! That's so clever and hilarious, all I can say is bravo. I almost cannot believe that in all of these years no one has thought to do something like that. I guess it always takes a great innovator to come up with something so original and stunningly funny. Congratulations! That was incredible.Please don't get all defensive. There's room for us both to be funny here.

brian219
01-03-2013, 11:30 PM
Please don't get all defensive. There's room for us both to be funny here.

Sorry if I "overreacted." I'm not being "defensive" for myself, but for my "mission."

14

That said, I've taken a look at some of the other track numbers and, so far, the synchronicities are not nearly as strong as for the ones I demonstrated earlier. There are some interesting oddities, however. For instance, I can't find a thread that runs through the track 14s, although there's a general sense of loss and justification.

Minute of Decay and Into the Fire have lines that are almost identical except for point of view:
"I'm on my way down now, I'd like to take you with me."
"If you want to hit bottom don't bother to try taking me with you."

Manson's death is mentioned in most 14s:
"I'll join the crowd that wants to see me dead"
"There is no cure for what is killing me"/I've looked ahead and saw a world that's dead. I guess that I am too.
"Say I killed all my friends and I deserve to be dead."
"Two heartbeats ahead in hell."

Coma White seems to have some kind of death overtone as well, but it's only implied and not for the narrator but the Coma character (although Coma may be Manson depending on interpretation).

Portrait and EMDM do not have a 14th track. Born Villain only does if you count the cover.

1

Let's see if these have anything more in common than just being of an "introductory" nature. Well, there's Great Big White World and Hey Cruel World as a jumping on point. Both songs look at the world as though the speaker is outside of it. GBWW begins MA's spaceman theme and implies travel or an arrival, as does Prelude (the Family Trip) with it's boat ride.

Both godeatgod and Devour thematically infer a type of cannibalism (the spelling of "god" was changed to D.R.U.G.S. according to MM, so the pills to be swallowed are gods, very much in line with Saturn devouring his children). The cannibalism theme also occurs in If I Was Your Vampire obviously.

All three of these songs also deal with pretty visceral imagery and the aimed at a singular "you":

Meat in the shape of a 'T'/Can't put your head together again
Blood-stained sheets in the shape of your heart/You'll burn, I'll eat your ashes
I'll see you and I'll blow your heart to pieces/You're not crying, this is blood all over me

So the general subject of GEG, IWYV and Devour is the death of a singular figure at the hands of the speaker, generally implied to be deicide. Blood, flesh meat, cannibalism. Three different albums. Three different opening tracks.

The theme of deicide is also present on HCW. The simple phrase "I am among no one" contains it, with "I AM" of course being the Hebrew God's answer to Moses when asked what he should tell the people when they asked who sent him. In the New Testament, Jesus was almost stoned when he told a crowd "before Abraham was, I am," because they understood that he had just referred to himself as God and considered it blashphemy. Manson uses the term clearly in association with divinity by saying "Creator, Preserver, Destroyer. Ask which one I AM." Those being the three chief gods of Hinduism. The phrase "I am among no one" is then clearly seen to mean "I am the only god. There are no others."

So anyway, HCW ties heavily into that theme of deicide, even if it does take some explaining for the uneducated. The other track dealing with the "World" handles deicide a bit differently with just the single line "Mother Mary miscarry," where it's more of a "wish you'd never been born" kind of thing.

So overall the theme of tracks numbered 1 is hating, killing and eating gods.

Not Mechanical
01-06-2013, 05:25 PM
This one is different in that it displays these themes by using them rather than just discussing them. The song "aims to depress" in that it tries to convince the listener that true relationships or love or whatever is impossible because whoever you are with will inevitably not match your mental concept of them. The Gardener subtly plants a seed in the listeners mind that is intended to grow as a worm, a crack in the heart, etc.

I think S.D. has summed up this thread pretty well, but all the same, I love this little analysis of The Gardener. The idea that 'whoever you are with will inevitably not match your mental concept of them,' is what I was thinking but put quite concisely, I like it.

Elizabeth Casto
01-24-2013, 07:16 PM
Wouldn't the gardener want his seeds to grow?

— can Death's new sunlight, streaming o'er the tomb,
lure the dead flower of their brain to bloom? (The Flowers of Evil "Death of the Artist" Baudelaire

Might as well tie it all together, books included.