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ThreeEyedGod
01-09-2013, 10:54 AM
I recently came across a movie called, The Reflecting Skin and found out that were a couple of things that correlate with Marilyn Manson. The most striking is one particular line of dialogue spoken in the film: " Each time I make my mother cry, an angel dies and falls from heaven". There is also a scene where a couple of boys find a fetus in a container and then show it to their mother...hmm..this seems familiar.

Anyone else familiar with this movie?

http://stdmoviereviews.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/thereflectingskin3.png

1984
01-09-2013, 12:10 PM
Wow... I understand being influenced by something and incorporating lyrics from movies and what not is totally cool... But the whole fetus in a can thing in the autobiography. It can't be a coincidence considering all of the other references taken from the film.

Really good post ThreeEyed, very interesting.

ThreeEyedGod
01-09-2013, 12:56 PM
But the whole fetus in a can thing in the autobiography. It can't be a coincidence considering all of the other references taken from the film.


Do you think he made that shit up??

Lately I have been seeing claims from others here and there, that there are more than a couple things from Manson's bio that are more or less fabricated...

THIS MUST BE SSOLVED!!

Hazekiah
01-09-2013, 01:11 PM
This has been a known influence since the very year Antichrist Superstar was released but it's good to see it re-discovered more recently, too.

It's a great movie and totally worth watching, plenty of other little inspirations for Manson tucked away in there, btw.

Here's the whole thing, divided in chapters on YouTube:




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JlZ9E1p_sU


And it's also worth noting that Manson's own childhood experience with a fetus is not recounted exactly as it plays out in the film. There's no reason to immediately leap to the conclusion that his reminiscences were fabricated. The Reflecting Skin was fairly unavoidable for anyone paying attention to underground, independent cinema in the early-to-mid-'90's (that's how I stumbled across it and had a similar NOFUCKINGWAY! reaction, lol), so especially if Manson's story was true and well-known to his friends it makes perfect sense that he would have either found the movie himself or else had it called to his attention, thereby effecting its clear influence upon Antichrist Superstar without necessitating the negation of his own anecdote.

1984
01-09-2013, 02:41 PM
I can pretty much count on Hazekiah for being pretty fair and straight down the middle and his thoughts on the subject are pretty solid in my view. However, if anyone would be able to kind of... "pull it off" it would be Marilyn Manson and there are some other things to consider such as when the The Long Hard Road Out of Hell was written. Marilyn Manson wasn't really banging on about films in those days so not many people would really make the connection. Especially the mainstream media dummies who were reviewing his albums. It also isn't really a major part of the book or anything and because it is an underground film most people who would read it obviously wouldn't make the connection with that either.

I'm huge on horror/disturbing flicks to the point where if I decide to watch a movie I have to spend a lot of time trawling through the internet for a horror flick I haven't seen before and I've never heard of The Reflecting Skin so that tells me the film is fairly obscure, while I could be wrong about that, if it is really as obscure as I suspect it is that then that would most definitely give Marilyn Manson the confidence to make an attempt at spicing up his book with a bit of controversy.

Either way in this particular case I think he has borrowed too heavily from the one source which at the very least is a little suspicious. Personally, while I wouldn't put any money on it, I believe that it's fabricated and like you pointed out it wouldn't be the only stretch of truth in his autobiography.

ThreeEyedGod
01-09-2013, 02:56 PM
Manson's own childhood experience with a fetus is not recounted exactly as it plays out in the film.

This is irrelevant as to whether or not Manson fabricated the story.

It's probably wise to change up the events so that it isn't COMPLETELY obvious. Kind of when one makes up a huge lie but peppers it with bits of truth to make it easier for someone to choke down.

I don't know whether or not he made that shit up or not: more than coincidence?

Discuss.

brian219
01-09-2013, 03:40 PM
This is irrelevant as to whether or not Manson fabricated the story.

It's probably wise to change up the events so that it isn't COMPLETELY obvious. Kind of when one makes up a huge lie but peppers it with bits of truth to make it easier for someone to choke down.

I don't know whether or not he made that shit up or not: more than coincidence?

Discuss.

I think it's fair to say that Manson lies even about pretty big things when it suits him. The black/white-balance thing only works if you're truthful half of the time and lie the other half.

Hazekiah
01-09-2013, 04:13 PM
Thanks for the kind words, Kollaps!

I appreciate the fact that The Reflecting Skin seems overwhelmingly obscure these days but it was MUCH less so at the time. The very same writer/director's next film had a rather big independent release in 1995 called The Passion of Darkly Noon, which was obviously pretty high-profile considering its cast:


http://images.booksamillion.com/covers/dvd/0/31/398/137/031398137047_2705593.jpg



I lived in the middle of nowhere at the time and the internet barely existed but it was featured in almost literally every single film magazine at Borders and Barnes & Noble (hell, the movie's wikipage (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Passion_of_Darkly_Noon) even cites reviews in "Entertainment Weekly" and "Fangoria") and almost across-the-board they all at least mentioned The Reflecting Skin in their coverage, with several going into detailed examinations of and comparisons between the two films. Same goes for the local paper write-ups in St. Louis when The Passion of Darkly Noon finally saw release there at the local art house cinema where I saw it about a year later, which was why I happened to rent The Reflecting Skin within a couple months of the release of Antichrist Superstar and ran to the internet to report on the influence, only to find that even that early it had already been picked up on by like-minded cinephile/Manson fans. (LOL, btw, autocorrect just suggested "pedophile/Manson fan," hahaha.)

Anyway, my point is just that I was a pretty entry-level film geek bereft of any exotic resources and even I was well-aware of The Reflecting Skin and trying to track it down to see what all the fuss was about. The guy's movie career never really recovered from poor (and unfair, I believe) reviews and reception of The Passion of Darkly Noon, so it's no surprise that it seems so obscure now, but back then he was attracting a LOT of attention -- Brendan Frasier was still HUGE from Encino Man and the more WTF?!? stuff his performance involved in The Passion of Darkly Noon was generating substantial buzz on its own, mind you -- so it all really was kind of inescapable for a while there if you were paying any attention to indie movies. And after the indie-renaissance BOOM of Tarantino and his peers a few years earlier that was pretty much everyone by then.

Ahhh. ~memories~

Getting back on track...

Manson most certainly WAS "banging on about films in those days," even indie cinema. David Lynch and Blue Velvet specifically came up in practically every single interview for the first couple years after the band was signed. It was an early Manson interview that tipped me off to Pedro Almodovar and, I'm sure you'll appreciate this, if Manson hadn't mentioned Richard Kern's "Fingered" it might've been YEARS later before I'd have become a fan of Lydia Lunch and discovered Rowland S. Howard. Same goes for countless other films and filmmakers Manson cited in those early days, those example just happened to be the first to leap to mind.

And I only mentioned that the details of the fetus-findings varied between the Manson's and the film's because it IS pertinent to the discussion. The only exact matches are kids finding fetuses and the dialogue/lyric about angels and mothers. And, sure, there's quite a bit of liberty taken within The Long, Hard Road Out of Hell -- Manson's always been pretty candid about that -- but I don't think it's worth calling LIAR! or such a stretch of the imagination that Manson was expecting fans to discover the correlations between the album with a song called "The Reflecting God" and the recent film The Reflecting Skin. He certainly went out of his way enough to make sure his fanbase was paying attention to movies with respect to his art, after all. And rather than crossing his fingers and hoping no one would notice the similarities between the movie and his childhood anecdotes, I'm pretty sure he even mentioned the movie once or twice in an interview somewhere back then...but if so it'll take a lot of digging to try and figure out where. I'll have to get back to you about that one.

I'm kinda rambling on now, I just meant to establish the logic of where I'm coming from in giving him the benefit of the doubt here. I'm obviously not saying that it's 100% impossible that he just fabricated his experience entirely, but like I was saying in my first post in here, it's not as if the same weird thing never happened to two people, either. Or, in this case, in both reality and fiction.

Doesn't really bother me either way, but it's worth considering a dissenting opinion on both sides.

1984
01-09-2013, 04:25 PM
I'm still more inclined to believe that it was fabricated however I don't think it matters at all. I count on Marilyn Manson for entertainment and therefor find it unimportant on the large part. He's not a politician, a teacher or anyone close to me so whether it's true or not in my opinion doesn't really affect his credibility in my eyes - some of his recent albums do, though. *bom tsssshhh...* :P

But yeah, it's fun to speculate and it is one of the more interesting topics that have come up in awhile. :)

The Jonathyn
01-12-2013, 09:10 AM
I have nothing to offer to this discussion but I just wanted to mention this odd coincidence. I read this thread yesterday having never heard of this film. After I got off work this morning and I found it on one of those "hey sucker like 8 movies for 5 bucks, buy now!!!" dvd sets in the 5 dollar bin at wal-mart. So I finally get to see this after 24 long arduous hours of build up.

Hazekiah
01-12-2013, 03:24 PM
I count on Marilyn Manson for entertainment and therefor find it unimportant on the large part. He's not a politician, a teacher or anyone close to me so whether it's true or not in my opinion doesn't really affect his credibility in my eyes...

I count on Manson for entertainment AND also as a politician, a teacher, and someone close to me. But it still doesn't matter to me whether or not he borrowed from the movie for his anecdote.

As far as I'm concerned, the anecdote and the movie both really just set the scene for "Cryptorchid" and Antichrist Superstar, and do so brilliantly at that.

Anything else is beside the point.

:)


I have nothing to offer to this discussion but I just wanted to mention this odd coincidence. I read this thread yesterday having never heard of this film. After I got off work this morning and I found it on one of those "hey sucker like 8 movies for 5 bucks, buy now!!!" dvd sets in the 5 dollar bin at wal-mart. So I finally get to see this after 24 long arduous hours of build up.

I love those sets! Out of curiosity, what other movies did they bundle it up with? Frankly, I'm surprised a Jesus-freak place like WalMart ever even stocked it in the first place. Lucky find!

And I had a similar coincidence with this movie and thread.

I was reading the thread about Manson's potential as a father a couple nights ago and went to see if the fetus scene from The Reflecting Skin was on YouTube so I could post it in there and stumbled across the entire movie instead. I got caught up in rewatching it and by the time it was over I was tired and decided it wasn't really relevant anyway...and then the very next day I woke and found this thread. My most immediate thought was, "WTF, is someone stalking my YT browsing history?!?"

Weirdness.

o_O

1984
01-13-2013, 12:33 AM
I count on Manson for entertainment AND also as a politician, a teacher, and someone close to me.

I love you like aids but that is cray cray.

Hazekiah
01-13-2013, 02:13 PM
https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRr6zzoAMuOeF_ppMMo-KHfs_olSjwp2cudk0GTudelfN2NGAgNEw

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQAR6k2izyM4qD2lT3gJ9j2Yqf3JZ2rg _5p8hty5QOHguVFuY2elg

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/8042/animatedfast.gif

Elizabeth Casto
01-17-2013, 06:28 PM
there are more similarities than that fetus thing. How about the stairwell and Dolphin Blue on that chair? That part made me LOL pretty hard.