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View Full Version : Sardonic Esoteric Misunderstandings of MM's work



M Tragedy666
09-11-2013, 03:13 PM
Art is in a lot of ways subjective. But I'm always amazed when speaking to some self-proclaimed Manson aficionados (whatever that means) at their lack of knowledge or understanding of some very basic things.... At the same time, I understand that you can be a big fan of something without taking the time to really understand each and every word in a lyric. You can kind of accept it for face value. But I feel a lot is missed by those fans. And I'm not speaking about any deep things that you would have to take the time to research. I'm talking about simple lyrics.

Think, for example, about The Dope Show. Every parent and religious group was quick to jump and attack the song claiming it was "pro-drugs". Well, I never even thought of it as a drug song at all. Drug is a metaphor in that song, and it is about Hollywood, actors, the media, and consumption. When a line (lol) like "Drugs, they say, are made in California...We love, your face, we'd really like to sell you" I hear "The ACTORS...they say...." It's a drug to the consumers, certainly. But again, it's used in a metaphorical way. And I feel a lot of people miss this.

I want to share two other examples and then I'd like to hear some examples you guys can think of. Maybe there are things that I've missed.

I once had a friend who heard "This Is The New Shit" for the first time and heard the "fun" sounding rhymes of "babble babble bitch bitch....sex sex sex don't forget the violence" and said to me, "Wow! I bet fans really go crazy and love this song live! It's such a great party song!" Or something like that. Completely missing the point. In my mind, this song is rather lethargic and apathetic to the music world. The dichotomy is that it's not necessarily sang in that way....although, then again it is rather monotonous in vocal tone during the verses.

It brings us to the chorus where he blatantly screams, "Do we get it?" and the mindless masses scream "no". Then he asks, "Do we want it?" and again, the fans, or whatever drones scream "yeah!". So, it seems he's mocking everyone who is not in on the joke. On the sarcasm. It's like, if you sing along live, your one of the herd! It's really funny in a sardonic way. Makes it all the more interesting that when I saw Manson perform this song on the recent tour, where he should have sang "Stick your stupid slogan in" he replaced it with "buy my born villain album" which I thought was very witty and clever.

And then I was just discussing mOBSCENE with someone on facebook. I will copy and paste a part of what I said.



"BE OBSCENE, BE, BE OBSCENE...BE OBSCENE BABY, AND NOT HEARD". Those who do not understand Marilyn Manson's art will hear this as a literal message...to go out and be obscene. It's to celebrate depraved behavior. The beauty of his art often lies in it's satire and it's often very esoteric in nature. The truth is it's a joke not meant to be understood by everyone. It's Dada at it's finest. Dirty for the sake of being dirty. Rebels without a cause.....that no one will ever hear or see. A simple chorus line like that evokes so much thought, comedy, and intrigue. Is it a shame that the majority will never understand that he's not actually being serious? Or is it scary that he is being serious? The dichotomies are endless."


Anyway, I hope at this point you get what my intentions are here. It's pretty obvious lyrical misinterpretations by people that I'd like to look at. Why do they choose to let lyrics go in one hear or eye and out the other?

I'm sure The Nobodies is another great example of people really thinking Manson is speaking about himself, calling himself a nobody and wanting to be a somebody. Are people not able to look at art in any context other than first person? It's about a lot of things, but it's definitely about Columbine murderers.



I don't know if this is a new phenomenon or what, but I feel like we are living in an age where no one cares about exceptional lyrics anymore. No one cares. An artist like Manson might suffer from pointless schisms because no one took their time to do their homework. I am a lyric and poetry lover. I love language and linguistics. I've been writing stories, songs, and poems for as long as I remember. I really love the written and spoken word. It's the first thing I hear in a song. Some people hate lyrics. I know many people (sadly) that think if a man writes a poem, he's a pussy, faggot, gay, etc... An ex band member of mine told me this. It made me wonder what the hell he thought I was doing the whole time, being the lyricist and all... People seem to want to zone out and just hear music. I love music, but I just find words very important. I know people that hate it so much they try to zone out the lyrics and just listen to a good riff. Anyway, I'm rambling. Discuss.

johncraze
09-11-2013, 10:10 PM
Well, like this sayin' says, happy people just pay attention to the music n' depressive folks are the ones who check the lyrics out, or something like that, I actually don't remember how it was literally. Getting to the point, like you I'm the kind of person that to fully connect to a musician's work needs to like the lyrics, if this doesn't happen I probably won't be paying any further attention.

One recent case I never understood what all the fuzz was about, were the little controversies in fans' opinions or whoever ended up hearing the song "Pistol Whipped" and just thought something in the lines of "Wow, Manson just breached a line here, he is promoting beating up women n' abusing them. How he could he do this?, I used to respect him.... n' yata, yata". It was like a sudden burst of tradional morality n' short-sightedness by people that have known Manson's tendency towards irony, double entendre, n' word play. To this you can add the type of reactions the "Running to the Edge of the World" video provoked, many people all of the sudden completly disregarded the lyrical content, and forgot like the 4 minutes of Manson behind a curtain n' focused in the girl getting killed by beating part, just to throw some dumb case on abuse while forgetting the artistic side of it.

These cases just came to be because some surrendered to the lyrical imagery without scratching beyond the surface, n' because a fantasy portrayed in an artistic medium was taken just too seriously, nullifying any attention to the lyrics. Anyhow, I just guess some people fall into the "I don't get it" reaction, or don't have any interest in digging further of what they plainly hear, read or see.

So those are my two cents, perhaps I'll post more circumstances if I remember them.

The Empirical Guy
09-12-2013, 06:14 AM
On the topic of mOBSCENE, I'm constantly amazed at the amount of people that A) think he's ripping off Faith No More, completely unaware of the common school football cheer, and B) completely miss the Oscar Wilde reference in the same line.

TH15x15xMYxOMeGA
09-28-2013, 05:29 PM
I have mixed feelings about this thread. I do agree that many people don't like to look at the deeper meaning of things, especially art and music. But I guess the part that gives me mixed feelings is that most people here (on PM) are not the people you describe, so I guess this is a little out of place, for lack of better words. Most of us are here because we love to find the deeper meaning in Manson's art and others' too.

It's a good topic to bring up though. It is sad that some people aren't interested in a deeper thinking, or getting past what meets the eye/ear. I think some people are just a little unmotivated. Some people do not value art because they do not value philosophy and expression. I've learned that some people just don't. I have no clue if it's genetics, choice, or laziness, but it's just very common. I think most of us here are alike in the fact that when we see something we don't understand, we really really want to try and find the meaning. It's just a constant interest that doesn't really fade or go away. For me, it's just how I have always been. So that leads me to believe that it could be a trait we are born with. Curiosity, maybe? Some people tend to accept what they see or hear as exactly how it is. Maybe people with this trait are just more curious and are more thoughtful. I guess I am taking this post in a little different direction than the original poster intended, but it's only because I do agree with them. And now I just realized that I did exactly what I described. Wow, not intentional. But I didn't understand something so I did a little deeper thinking into what the meaning of it is. People like us can't help it I suppose! But I do wonder if this is something that can be changed in a person. Could someone who doesn't like to go past the initial point ever become someone who likes to engage in higher thinking? Some very interesting stuff here.

TH15x15xMYxOMeGA
09-28-2013, 05:33 PM
On the topic of mOBSCENE, I'm constantly amazed at the amount of people that A) think he's ripping off Faith No More, completely unaware of the common school football cheer, and B) completely miss the Oscar Wilde reference in the same line.

I am not too familiar with Oscar Wilde myself. What is the reference?

Alterkaker66
09-28-2013, 06:57 PM
it's just how I have always been. So that leads me to believe that it could be a trait we are born with. Curiosity, maybe? Some people tend to accept what they see or hear as exactly how it is. Maybe people with this trait are just more curious and are more thoughtful. I guess I am taking this post in a little different direction than the original poster intended, but it's only because I do agree with them. And now I just realized that I did exactly what I described. Wow, not intentional. But I didn't understand something so I did a little deeper thinking into what the meaning of it is. People like us can't help it I suppose! But I do wonder if this is something that can be changed in a person. Could someone who doesn't like to go past the initial point ever become someone who likes to engage in higher thinking? Some very interesting stuff here.
Curiosity has almost killed this cat. Well, it's gotten me into lots of trouble. I think some people are born with a stronger 'why' gene than others. I've never seen a kid that doesn't got through it. I think they get discouraged. I know I piss the hell outta my sister. She got ragging on me one day and I told her I wouldn't believe the sun came up unless I saw it for myself. -Probably goes back to a childhood of repressive religion. You shoulda seen the Sunday school teacher when I asked if Jesus had been born a girl would she still be Jesus.-
Why ask why? Because, godammit! Challenge people , ask more of them and maybe they will ask more of themselves in the way of critical thought. (even further off topic, but dammit, it's a good subject)

The Empirical Guy
09-29-2013, 05:48 PM
I am not too familiar with Oscar Wilde myself. What is the reference?

"Women should be obscene and not heard" - Oscar Wilde. Although I've also seen the same quote attributed to both Groucho Marx and John Lennon, it doesn't seem quite so fitting to either of them.