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View Full Version : Creator, Preserver, Destroyer... Eastern Religious Influence



Elizabeth Casto
12-17-2014, 01:44 PM
Creator Preserver Destroyer. Ask which one I am.
While many have looked at the above song quote as mentioning the Hindu trinity of Bramha;the creator; Vishnu;the preserver; and Shiva;the destroyer. There is one other way to see it, as Ganesha and a nod to the Ganapatya Sect which is another branch of Hinduism. They see Ganesha as containing all three aspects in one.http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh307/bthas/mason111_zpsa65cfaa4.jpg
Even a recent phot shows Manson, with a red open circle on his forehead, and with trails from his eyes down. The psychedelic picture creates a pattern that makes Manson’s face distort and look like he has an elephant’s trunk. The red circle on his forehead along with the trunk, tricks the eye into seeing Ganesha. He even has what looks like a single tusk on one side of his face due to the optical illusion.
While for some that last image may be considered a stretch, there are other times the band has given a nod to Hnduism. Twiggy was wearing a tilaka at a conference in Lithuania wile dressed in modest clothing. http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh307/bthas/twigy_zps490f9a04.png (http://s259.photobucket.com/user/bthas/media/twigy_zps490f9a04.png.html)I use the term Tilaka instead of bindi because the bindi is literally just a dot and translates as such. It is easy to confuse the shape of the tilaka Twiggy wore as being a bullet wound since he used the traditional red coloring. However, it is just a traditional religious symbol.
Even in the past Manson has utilized other imagery from India. During the Sweet Dreams video the character with the dreaded clock hair had a black bindi.http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh307/bthas/marilyn_manson_sweet_dreams_thumb_zps3c131e11.jpg (http://s259.photobucket.com/user/bthas/media/marilyn_manson_sweet_dreams_thumb_zps3c131e11.jpg. html) Which may have just been an accident created by a random make up artist for color value for the video. However it is a beautiful choice and without the bindi the image would have been lacking something. http://i259.photobucket.com/albums/hh307/bthas/bindi1_zps33ead548.jpg (http://s259.photobucket.com/user/bthas/media/bindi1_zps33ead548.jpg.html)
In the song “Third Day of a Seven Day Binge” when Manson does the MMMMmmmm sound in the chorus it is as if he is chanting OM. The OM is a chant that is used to send a vibration through the body, similliar to how music itself can, but a person can do this without any help from technology. The sound itself is the shakti or divine energy combining the creator, preserver, and liberation or destroyer. Since the focus is on the Mmm sound, means focus on the destruction or liberation.
Since I have started to study meditation and reading different breathing patterns, I have come to realize that there are similliar patterns in manson’s body of work. Several off of EMDM, the most prominent one being You Me and The Devil Makes Three. In order to help the listener keep breath and learn how to breathe during meditation Manson counts 1.2.3 which makes it easy to stay mindful. In No Reflection he says he wont bother counting 123 and true to form in the next song Pistol Whipped, he does another breathing exercise, he does not count. Again its easier for the listener to follow the breathing pattern and stop before becoming light headed and queasy.
As I started reading about meditation, I would read that the purpose of meditation is not to keep your head empty, but to allow your thoughts to flow in and out or around. You have to disengage from them. You can be aware of them but not own them.
While keeping this in mind, sometimes thoughts are persistent, and to stay focused you use mantras to refocus and/or retrain your brain pattern. I picked up on the use of mantras during EMDM, especially during the song “Just a Car Crash Away”. Without getting to personal, the repitition of certain lyrics become a focus to recenter the brain. On THEOL, Leave a Scar has the repitition worthy of a mantra. And so does Devour “My pain is not ashamed to repeat itself.”
While this is more Buddhist based than Hindu, it still shows how Manson has paid homage to Eastern religions in a positive way. That is the beauty of Mason’s work. There are so many levels to it that you can look and you can dig and you never know what is there. Because as you evolve, so does your understanding of the music. That is what heralds true art from pop culture. The layers make the meaning universal, but not in a bland way like a remote, but in the way that will speak to me, my children and his children. There will always be something for each generation to understand and enjoy or learn from.

blue angel
12-17-2014, 02:56 PM
Very nice and I can see and understand all of the examples that you have given to underline your thoughts.

Mercurius
12-18-2014, 07:24 AM
That is an interesting suggestion, as Manson has made use of the symbolism of the Chakras. Thank you!

Elizabeth Casto
12-18-2014, 10:58 AM
That also explains the blue circle on his head from a few months ago. I had trouble figuring out why he was using blue. The third eye chakra is a dark blue.

I feel , that eastern religious are sometimes hard to understand and a bit mysterious to people that are not exposed to it. And studying them a bit even I feel overwhelmed with everything. But after awhile it gets easier to grasp.
I am sure there are more instances of things I do not understand
And I appreciate everyone who has taken the time to read this entry.


That is an interesting suggestion, as Manson has made use of the symbolism of the Chakras. Thank you!
How so?

Mercurius
12-19-2014, 05:21 AM
http://www.nachtkabarett.com/ihvh/img/lotus.jpg

"I feel , that eastern religious are sometimes hard to understand and a bit mysterious to people that are not exposed to it. And studying them a bit even I feel overwhelmed with everything. But after awhile it gets easier to grasp. "

The symbolism of eastern religions is extremely complex and multifaceted, just as alchemical symbolism. I have studied both, but still cannot rid myself of the feeling that my "knowledge" is still extremely superficial.

Elizabeth Casto
12-19-2014, 12:13 PM
http://www.nachtkabarett.com/ihvh/img/lotus.jpg

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The symbolism of eastern religions is extremely complex and multifaceted, just as alchemical symbolism. I have studied both, but still cannot rid myself of the feeling that my "knowledge" is still extremely superficial.
I have a lot of trouble trying to understand alchemy.
Break something down and build it back ...thats the gist right?

Also...the new video..i see it as the kundalini serpent and the contortions are reminiscent of sex or yoga. Thats just a first impression though and how wrong those can be.

blue angel
12-19-2014, 12:40 PM
I have to think that this is more of Twiggy's influence over Manson here, but just because of some of Twiggy's dressing and tattoo's and early social media scribblings. But, we did see this earlier in the Sweet Dreams video, as you have shown with the picture. It also seemed to show up moreso once Twiggy was reunited with Manson and they recorded the album, THEOTL.

Elizabeth Casto
12-19-2014, 01:04 PM
I can see it being a Twiggy influence.
They balance each other very well.

Mercurius
12-20-2014, 04:12 AM
[QUOTE=Elizabeth Casto;181733]I have a lot of trouble trying to understand alchemy.
Break something down and build it back ...thats the gist right?

Alchemy basically consist of a theoretical part and a practical part. The practical part tackles the idea of elemental tranfiguration, or turning "ignoble" or inferior metals into Gold, eventually creating the philosopher´s stone. The theoretical part, however, is more of a psychological process, in which transcending to a hiher level of consciousness is the main aim. And then, of course, there is wonderful alchemical mediaval art and modern artists as the unrivaled Leonora Carrington, who made use of alchemical symbols, not to mention Manson. :)

Your interpretation of the latest music video seems plausible- the accentuated spine and the Serpent of kundalini... I still didnt find anything, except for the pharao-like appearance which would also match the title of the Album, "Pale Emperor" and the elongated fingernail at a promo picture (which is only a metal Accessoire, thank heavens :)), which indicated aristocracy in ancient China, as far as I know.

But we´ll have to wait for the Album to come out, I suppose. :(

Elizabeth Casto
12-20-2014, 10:43 AM
yea i guess we are supposed to wait...:cool:
the elongated fingernail? I feel like i missed something there.
you make alchemy understandable. thank you for taking the time to clarify.

Mercurius
12-22-2014, 02:28 AM
There was this promo picture that accompanied a recent interview; Manson appeared to have one long fingernail.
My "explanation" is very general, I wish I could provide a better one. Especially compared to your in-depth analysis, it appears to be rather meager. :)

NightChameleons
12-22-2014, 06:16 PM
I have a lot of trouble trying to understand alchemy.
Break something down and build it back ...thats the gist right?

Also...the new video..i see it as the kundalini serpent and the contortions are reminiscent of sex or yoga. Thats just a first impression though and how wrong those can be.

At its most basic, alchemy is the science of self-transformation. You are the lead becoming the gold of your divine self. In order to accomplish this, you must burn away the dross to uncover and purify the precious metal - hence, destroying to create. Alchemy also deals with the reconciliation of opposing forces. The Androgyne is an alchemical symbol combining male and female, for example.

Elizabeth Casto
12-23-2014, 09:57 AM
I just want to point out one more thing i missed.
at 1:58-2:00 in the new shit video...there is a girl with a bindi silently screaming yes. while the crowd shots no when manson asks if we get it.
the song got stuck in my head yesterday and i watched the video and saw that by accident.
and either the director was bad at splicing things or its a weird coincidence.
interesting none the less.


That seems to be a common theme in mansons work from an overall perspective. the idea of transformation or becoming. always cut away the dead wood as it does not serve you. Destruction is liberation. Death is as painful as rebirth. There is a reason people shy away from it. Reconciliation of opposing forces..or finding balance?
its like how the aghori eliminate thoughts of duality.

Whisky And Speed
12-23-2014, 06:52 PM
A good topic really. However, I don't think that an atheist like Manson will bother trying eastern spirituality. He was always against myths in anyway.

Elizabeth Casto
12-23-2014, 07:46 PM
Thank yo for taking the time to read my essay, Whiskey and Speed. I always appreciate different view points. I find yours intriguing.

To be fair, some have mentioned that this is Twiggy's influence. Since he does have the OM symbol tattooed on him. And I can see that.
I can also see Manson using some of the imagery in his work and its undeniably there.
I can agree that Manson isnt a Hindu or a Buddhist or any of that.
I dont see him being against "myth" , but it depends on your definition of the word. How do You define myth? A false truth. A story man used to understand creation. I see myth as symbolic reasoning and these symbols are signs that have been elevated to mythical status. Academics have been arguing the definition of myth for a long time with no end in sight. Its as pointless to argue the definition of myth as the existence of god.

If someone wants to understand something they need to understand the symbolism that is behind it.

I just do not see him bashing eastern religion the way he does Christianity.
Plus he can say he is an atheist all day, but with lyrics like "I never hated the one true God, but the god of the people-I hated." Plants a seed of doubt in my mind.

All religions today are perverted due to man, but some truth can be found if you look. just leave the poison behind.
And im not trying to convert anyone. I see it all as some sort of history or philosophical knowledge thats been lost and found.