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View Full Version : 'Slave Only Dreams To Be King' - "As a man thinketh"



Shangri-LIE
01-12-2015, 07:26 AM
http://jamesallen.wwwhubs.com/think.htm


"The human Will, that force unseen.
The offspring of a deathless Soul,
Can hew a way to any goal.
Though walls of granite intervene.

Be not impatient in delay.
But wait as one who understands;
When spirit rises and commands,
The gods are ready to obey."


There is no overcoming, just coming and going. "You are what you beat". Much like in "Odds of Even" where he says "No one is exempt from the Odds of Even". Some should feel compelled to go back to to "The Reflecting God" on this track where he proclaims "I went to God just so see and I was looking at me", live, "you". You are equal to your maker and destroyer. There is no one to answer to but yourself, but there are people who only seek to have power without understanding the eventual collapse and consequences of their own duly noted naivety/stupidity in this song.

"All that a man achieves and all that he fails to achieve is the direct result of his own thoughts. In a justly ordered universe, where loss of equipoise would mean total destruction, individual responsibility must be absolute."


Have a read. Give the song several more listens and let it take you wherever. It's a honey comb. Pick the sweetest corner you can and indulge. Share your thoughts.

Nemoris Inferioris
01-12-2015, 11:25 AM
WILL

You will be what you will to be;
Let failure find its false content
In that poor word “environment,”
But spirit scorns it, and is free.

It masters time, it conquers space,
It cowes that boastful trickster Chance,
And bids the tyrant Circumstance
Uncrown and fill a servant’s place.

The human Will, that force unseen,
The offspring of a deathless Soul,
Can hew the way to any goal,
Though walls of granite intervene.

Be not impatient in delay,
But wait as one who understands;
When spirit rises and commands,
The gods are ready to obey.

The river seeking for the sea
Confronts the dam and precipice,
Yet knows it cannot fail or miss;
You will be what you will to be!

You are what you beat.

blue angel
01-12-2015, 08:11 PM
That was nice to read and to be reminded of that way of thought, Thank You for suggesting it.

Mok
01-12-2015, 08:55 PM
You will be what you will to be;
Let failure find its false content
In that poor word, "environment,"
But spirit scorns it, and is free.

It masters time, it conquers space;
It cows that boastful trickster, Chance,
And bids the tyrant Circumstance
Uncrown, and fill a servant's place.

The human Will, that force unseen,
The offspring of a deathless Soul,
Can hew a way to any goal,
Though walls of granite intervene.

Be not impatient in delay,
But wait as one who understands;
When spirit rises and commands,
The gods are ready to obey.

http://jamesallen.wwwhubs.com/think.htm

The Overman
01-13-2015, 12:33 AM
There is a rather lengthy sample in this song, which sounds like it's spoken in a woman's voice, that has been deliberately hidden in the mix. The first time I can hear it in the song is at 2:12, and the only word I can make out is "people" at 2:22. The sample ends at 2:26. I think it MIGHT be something like "how can (they, we, I) explain to (these, the) people...".

Any help?

Shangri-LIE
01-13-2015, 06:17 AM
There is a rather lengthy sample in this song, which sounds like it's spoken in a woman's voice, that has been deliberately hidden in the mix. The first time I can hear it in the song is at 2:12, and the only word I can make out is "people" at 2:22. The sample ends at 2:26. I think it MIGHT be something like "how can (they, we, I) explain to (these, the) people...".

Any help?

Though I think Cringeon would be a better candidate, I might isolate the layers of this song to try and decipher it along with some of the other things people are hearing in other songs.

Nemoris Inferioris
01-13-2015, 07:36 AM
I hear it too. Right after the first chorus.

Really cool that Manson is using more samples.

HCH73
01-17-2015, 03:18 PM
You will be what you will to be;
Let failure find its false content
In that poor word, "environment,"
But spirit scorns it, and is free.

It masters time, it conquers space;
It cows that boastful trickster, Chance,
And bids the tyrant Circumstance
Uncrown, and fill a servant's place.

The human Will, that force unseen,
The offspring of a deathless Soul,
Can hew a way to any goal,
Though walls of granite intervene.

Be not impatient in delay,
But wait as one who understands;
When spirit rises and commands,
The gods are ready to obey.

http://jamesallen.wwwhubs.com/think.htm
I wonder who is the one reading it. I doubt it is James Allen as he died in 1912.



Have you been able to identify the spoken part at the end of the song yet? It sounds like the same person speaking from the beginning but I can't find where James Allen said it.

(I swear is sounds like Unknown Hinson speaking but there's no way that's him)

HCH73
01-23-2015, 12:06 PM
Bueller...bueller......

Shangri-LIE
02-01-2015, 09:10 AM
I wonder who is the one reading it. I doubt it is James Allen as he died in 1912.



Have you been able to identify the spoken part at the end of the song yet? It sounds like the same person speaking from the beginning but I can't find where James Allen said it.

(I swear is sounds like Unknown Hinson speaking but there's no way that's him)

Walton Goggins, Jr.

http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1335304/thumbs/o-WALTON-GOGGINS-facebook.jpg

Nemoris Inferioris
02-01-2015, 05:11 PM
I believe the end spoken part is written for the song. In the credits of TPE, it mentions a Peacherman. So it might be recorded for the song also.

FeedYourHead
02-02-2015, 03:47 PM
I have a question, and then a follow-up question depending on the answer.

Is "Slave never dreams to be free. Slave only dreams to be king" a literary or biblical allusion? Is it a direct/obvious reference or quote from something?

Shangri-LIE
02-02-2015, 04:29 PM
I have a question, and then a follow-up question depending on the answer.

Is "Slave never dreams to be free. Slave only dreams to be king" a literary or biblical allusion? Is it a direct/obvious reference or quote from something?

I haven't really given that line much thought actually to tell the truth. I'm not sure. I did a review of the record but there's still a bit of lyrical content that I'm trying to put into context.

YoureAlreadyHere
02-02-2015, 10:09 PM
As far as literature goes, someone had pointed out The Starchild by Oscar Wilde. I can't help but think of Longfellow's The Slave's Dream. I find conflicts with both, but I do find similarities.

I'm just lost about the new parents/wed wed wed/already dead bit.... I THINK I had read somewhere an idea about the meaning, but it escapes me (please address this if aware), or maybe I myself have been exposed to the original source- I have no idea.

As far as biblical reference, I can make a connection in the line itself: slave never dreams to be free, they enjoy their life of servitude- it gives them meaning, purpose, and incites a sense of need from their peers (from what is explained/written, mind the occasional horror story of brutality and victimization)- having said that, they also aspire to be More, to improve their status, to be King/Master/Mother of King/etc.

Meh.

FeedYourHead
02-02-2015, 10:42 PM
^ That's actually the reason why I was asking. The lyrics reminded me of something literary but it's not quite the same concept, so I was curious.

That line reminded me of the part in Julius Caesar when Caesar explains how he wants to be surrounded by fat (content, satisfied) people, and that Cassius is lean and hungry (ambitious), and therefore a threat to him as emperor.

It's interesting though because slaves are always going to be hungry and lean - literally, and Manson is the Pale Emperor.

Shangri-LIE
02-03-2015, 04:01 AM
Absolutely. That's why I've been sitting on the lyrics of this song for a while. There are so many points of reference. Thanks for point those out FYH and YourAlreadyHere. to think those are spot on observations. I'll add more to this subject later.

HCH73
02-12-2015, 03:58 PM
gotcha! I googled his name and found these mentions.
http://thetalkhouse.com/music/talks/louise-goffin-talks-marilyn-mansons-the-pale-emperor/

http://www.mansonwiki.com/wiki/The_Pale_Emperor

MistressOfClouds
02-22-2015, 09:30 AM
I have a question, and then a follow-up question depending on the answer.

Is "Slave never dreams to be free. Slave only dreams to be king" a literary or biblical allusion? Is it a direct/obvious reference or quote from something?

I thought about this as well and all I have is a citation from the Interview on Gigwise. Not MM himself, but the author of the review says somthing about the possible origin of the song's title:

Paraphrasing Camus for 'Slave Only Dreams To Be King', Manson channels industrial sounds to show a bizarre menacing grace, while [...]

Sadly, that is all the article says about that. I read some of Camus' works but I can't remember any particular passage which might be the one "paraphrased" here.

Elizabeth Casto
02-16-2016, 02:39 AM
Even rabbits dream of being wolves. Its a never ending cycle. Just. Stop.
You want me to stand up? Well im not going to do it.
Condemned to.... be free.

PaperDoll
02-17-2016, 05:28 PM
WILL

You will be what you will to be;
Let failure find its false content
In that poor word “environment,”
But spirit scorns it, and is free.

It masters time, it conquers space,
It cowes that boastful trickster Chance,
And bids the tyrant Circumstance
Uncrown and fill a servant’s place.

The human Will, that force unseen,
The offspring of a deathless Soul,
Can hew the way to any goal,
Though walls of granite intervene.

Be not impatient in delay,
But wait as one who understands;
When spirit rises and commands,
The gods are ready to obey.

The river seeking for the sea
Confronts the dam and precipice,
Yet knows it cannot fail or miss;
You will be what you will to be!

You are what you beat.

Ella Wheeler Wilcox <3

Over neath Man
02-17-2016, 06:25 PM
This song ties in perfectly with Children of Cain. Read Camus' The Rebel for a better understanding of both songs, IMO.