View Full Version : Marilyn Manson and The Process.

The Overman
08-28-2015, 08:31 AM

August 16, 1999 Author: [omega symbol] Subject: this is the end, my only friends Article: thank you all, far and away for helping us live through such a tumultuous tour..... I am writing to you from Kern's Gate and from Death Valley the birthplace of our new album. Details to follow. With the shedding of skin we have discarded our Mechanical Animal clothes, costumes stage items, etc. This will be available for auction and a portion of the proceeds will go to charity. I love you all in the only true sense of the word. In the Name of Jehovah, Lucifer, Satan and their union through Christ and JFK


Incidentally, Manson's painting from The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell reminds me very much of this Processean piece.


A brief explanation of Processean theology, by church founder Robert DeGrimston.


1.1 CONSCIOUSLY or unconsciously, apathetically, half-heartedly, enthusiastically or fanatically, under countless other names than those by which we know Them, and under innumerable disguises and descriptions, men have followed the three Great Gods of the Universe ever since the Creation. Each one according to his nature.

1.2 For the three Gods represent three basic human patterns of reality. Within the framework of each pattern there are countless variations and permutations, widely varying grades of suppression and intensity. Yet each one represents a fundamental problem, a deep-rooted driving force, a pressure of instincts and desires, terrors and revulsions.

1.3 All three of them exist to some extent in every one of us. But each of us leans more heavily towards one of them, whilst the pressures of the other two provide the presence of conflict and uncertainty.

1.4 JEHOVAH, the wrathful God of vengeance and retribution, demands discipline, courage and ruthlessness, and a single-minded dedication to duty, purity and self-denial. All of us feel those demands to some degree, some more strongly and more frequently than others.

1.5 LUCIFER, the Light Bearer, urges us to enjoy life to the full, to value success in human terms, to be gentle and kind and loving, and to live in peace and harmony with one another. Man's apparent inability to value success without descending into greed, jealousy and an exaggerated sense of his own importance, has brought the God LUCIFER into disrepute. He has become mistakenly identified with SATAN.

1.6 SATAN, the receiver of transcendent souls and corrupted bodies, instills in us two directly opposite qualities; at one end an urge to rise above all human and physical needs and appetites, to become all soul and no body, all spirit and no mind, and at the other end a desire to sink beneath all human values, all standards of morality, all ethics, all human codes of behaviour, and to wallow in a morass of violence, lunacy and excessive physical indulgence. But it is the lower end of satan's nature that men fear, which is why SATAN, by whatever name, is seen as the Adversary.

1.7 SATAN: Lust, Abandon, Violence, Excess, Indulgence: SUB-HUMANITY

1.8 LUCIFER: Enjoyment, Permissiveness, Harmony, Success, Satisfaction: HUMANITY

1.9 JEHOVAH: Duty, Discipline, Struggle, Sacrifice, Self-denial: HUMANITY

1.10 SATAN: Detachment, Mysticism, Otherworldliness, Magic, Asceticism: SUPER-HUMANITY

1.11 Problems and pressures from within. And we have a choice. Either we can face them, recognise them, accept them as part of ourselves, tackle them with awareness and understanding, and finally rise above them. Or we can suppress them, reject them, disown them, pretend they are not there, justify them, blame them on something beyond our control, hide from them and thereby ultimately become completely trapped and stultified by our fear of them. They do not go away, however deeply we may bury our heads in the sand.

1.12 And CHRIST is the Emissary of the Gods. He is Their link with human beings. Their incarnation, Their representative within the world. He stands outside and beyond the separate and individual patterns. He draws them together, seeing the pressures, knowing the problems. He is there to guide all of us who will follow Him, through the first choice, uniting us into a common aim. He is there to give us the courage and faith to face the problems, recognise them, accept them as part of ourselves, tackle them with awareness and understanding, and finally to rise above them.

1.13 The choice is ours. CHRIST and a path of vision and reality, sometimes painful, always intense; or anti-Christ and a path of blindness and lies, and the dull agony of fear that one day the truth will emerge. And it must.

The Overman
08-28-2015, 12:10 PM
Robert DeGrimston, 'A Candel In Hell' (http://www.feastofhateandfear.com/archives/robert_02.html):

And man carries a candle to light his way. And so as man believes he is moving forward, he moves in a state of illusion. The candle lights his way in Hell, so that he can pretend he is in Heaven.

Marilyn Manson, "The Death Song"

We light a candle on an Earth we made into Hell
And pretend that we're in Heaven

The Overman
08-28-2015, 01:41 PM
Helter Skelter:, Vincent Bugliosi, page 636

Up until December of 1967... the San Francisco headquarters for the Process was 407 Cole Street, in Haight-Ashbury.

From about April through July 1967, Charles Manson and his fledgling Family lived just two blocks away, at 636 Cole. In view of Manson's curiosity, it appears very likely that he at least investigated the satanists, and there is fairly persuasive evidence that he "borrowed" some of their teachings.

In one of our conversations during the Tate-LaBianca trial, I asked Manson if he knew Robert Moore, or Robert DeGrimston. He denied knowing DeGrimston, but said he had met Moore. "You're looking at him," Manson told me. "Moore and I are the same." I took this to mean that he felt they thought alike.

Not long after this, I was visited by two representatives of The Process, a Father John and a Brother Matthew. Having heard that I was asking questions about the group, they had been sent from their Cambridge, Massachusetts headquarters to assure me that Manson and Moore had never met and that Moore was opposed to violence. They also left me a stack of Process literature. The following day the names "Father John" and "Brother Matthew" appeared on Manson's visitor's list. What they discussed is unknown. All I know is that in my last conversation with Manson, Charlie became evasive when I questioned him about the Process.

The Overman
08-28-2015, 01:47 PM

4 P's.


4 M's.

08-29-2015, 07:09 AM
Neat stuff. There is almost an entire chapter about the Process/Charlie connection in Gavin Baddeley's book Lucifer Rising, if I recall correctly. I don't think he explored it quite as much in his bio of Marilyn Manson, but it's been a while since I read them. It's interesting how "The Death Song" lyrics are a reference to that source, much as "King Kill 33" was a reference to a piece in the original/collectible edition of Apocalypse Culture. In one of those books (Adam Parfrey ended up putting out a sequel, so I tend to forget what was in which one...), there was a good article about the Process Church, as well. Thank you for sharing these connections.

The Overman
08-29-2015, 03:36 PM

Strange things began to happen. The group, which now numbered around 30, began to feel various "group mind" effects and felt "set apart" from the rest of society. Like many "alternative" groups in the Sixties, "Compulsions Analysis" moved from self-help to a "spiritual quest", as those that had gone through "the process" began to regard the rest of society as a "bad dream". The DeGrimstons began to think they had created something more than a new therapy, so they looked around for a new name and in 1965, "Compulsions Analysis", a derivative of "Scientology", became the "Process Church of the Final Judgment".

Robert designed their new symbol; Four "Ps" joined in a mandalic wheel, with an uncanny resemblance to a Nazi "swastika". The couple, now known as "the Omega", felt inspired.


Their "theology" was based on the four "god forces" and you followed the path that best suited you. "Jehovans" were disciplined, authoritarian, ascetic puritans. "Satanists" were dedicated to violence, chaos and lust. "Lucifereans" were self-indulgent sensualists. "Christ", as unifier of all three, was the symbol of the new man to emerge after the coming destruction. All the rest were lukewarm mediocrities; "The Greys". John Grey "hides, even from himself, his own intensity of feeling" and "has wrapped himself in a cocoon of compromise and mediocrity". People like him would burn in the soon approaching purging fires of the last days, according to Robert.

"John Grey" was a specific term used by the Process to refer to anyone who didn't conform to their tripartite schema.

Around the release of Mechanical Animals, Marilyn Manson painted a series of portraits referred to collectively as the Grey Series.

http://images.101exhibit.com/www_101exhibit_com/Marilyn_Manson_SelfPortraitTheGreySeries_1999_41_5 x33_250.jpg



This was also the first album featuring guitarist John 5.

The Empirical Guy
09-04-2015, 06:19 PM
There's some really good stuff here, thanks for posting it.

As there was a lot of related information on the Process spread throughout a number of threads, I've brought them together in to one general thread where it's easier to find it all in one place.

The Overman
09-06-2015, 07:46 PM
Does any of this (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ed_Sanders) sound familiar to those of us who anticipated the Holy Wood novel for so long?

In 1971, (Ed) Sanders wrote The Family, a profile of the events leading up to the Tate-LaBianca murders. He attended the Manson group's murder trial, and spent time at their residence at the Spahn Movie Ranch. There have been two updated editions of The Family, the most recent in 2002.[7] The Process Church of the Final Judgement sued Sanders's U.S. publisher for defamation over a chapter linking them with Manson's activities. The case was settled by the publisher, who removed the disputed chapter from future editions. The Process Church then sued Sanders's British publisher, but lost the suit and were forced to pay the defendant's legal fees.[8]


A March 13, 2003 post made by Marilyn Manson on The Oracle section of MarilynManson.com explained, "The book has been written for over 3 years, but the censorship of certain ideas, ideals and opinions has kept me from releasing it to the public. I'm sorry I can't say more, but there is a religious objection to its release because the story's inspiration was not only my own life (the three albums included) but also some "private" documents I discovered. This is a deep and dark road, and I haven't found the off-ramp."[2]

Anybody want to speculate if maybe those "religious objections" concerned a litigious off-shoot religion of a litigious off-shoot religion?

This evidently didn't carry over from the assorted posts I made on the subject, so I'll repost it here. Some of the post-Triptych records are lighter on Process references than the preceding albums, but there's at least one overt reference on The High End Of Low, by way of funk music giant George Clinton.


- Advertisement for Parliament Funkadelic album America Eats Its Young, heavily influenced by a Process Church sermon of the same title


- A Marilyn Manson logo circa The High End Of Low

We're from America, where we eat our young (http://www.pfunk1.com/pfunk/fnkadlic.htm)


We are all America; all part of the pain and suffering and the
agony of America; all feeding the agony and conflict of America -
whether we are for or against or indifferent and unconcemed;
whether we care or not.

We will all be concerned in the outcome of America even if we
don't feel concerned now. We all share the future.

America eats its young - maybe. But America is also our child, is
now how we all have made it; has become what we have wanted it to
be. America reflects to us what we have come to. The state of
America is our state.

America eats its young. But we eat America, pollute it, abuse it,
rape it, take from it, destroy it. As we give so do we receive.
As we give to America and all her factions, so do we receive from
America and all her factions. Do we give love or do we give fear
and hate? America is racked with conflict; our conflict; the
conflict of rich and poor, have and have not, black and white,
male and female, order and chaos, hawk and dove, love and hate,
old and young, right and left.

But it's our conflict, not America's, no matter what side of the
fence we are on. The question is: Does what we are doing from our
particular side have positive or negative effects? Is what we are
doing aimed at reconciliation of the conflict, or just getting
our way at the other side's expense? What about the "opposition"?
What do they feel? Or are we our own opposition, our own enemy?

What is missing? What does America need most? What are her
children lacking? How can we banish evil? What can we give to our
enemies? Who is Satan? Christ help us: we are lost, lost in our
fury, lost in our blame, lost in our apathy, Call to us, call to

What can we give to our enemies?
Love? Love our enemies? Love Satan? Love Satan?????

What is love? How can we put love into action. Christ help us:
it's not easy. How can we break the spiral that is breaking
America, is breaking us?

Christ teaches; If we want satisfaction, the only way we can have
it is by giving it to people.

Christ help us: it's not easy.
Christ teaches: When we are able to love those around us whatever
they might do or be, without blame, and without in any way
separating what they are from what we are: then, and only then,
can we be sure that we are fulfilled within ourselves. The only
way is to love our enemies!

Christ help us: it's not easy
But it's the only way.
What do you think, brothers and sisters?

An article about George Clinton's relationship with the Process Church. (http://dangerousminds.net/comments/funkadelic_and_the_process_church)

Better still, Clinton himself opens up about the relationship with the Process Church in his 2014 memoir, Brothas Be, Yo Like George, Ain’t That Funkin’ Kinda Hard on You?. He says they met not in Toronto, but in Boston:

There was a group called the Process Church that had been founded by a British couple as an offshoot of Scientology, and in the late sixties they started hanging out with the band, mainly in Boston. They would feed the kids in Boston Common and they ran what was basically the first day-care center that I can remember, offering to watch children when mothers went to work. We ended up excerpting some of their thinking in the Maggot Brain liner notes, which seemed fine at the time—it was a form of self-actualization, not an uncommon or unpopular philosophy at the time. We did the same thing for America Eats Its Young, but with far different results. In the summer of 1969, a career criminal (and part-time songwriter) named Charles Manson led a band of followers on a killing spree in upscale residential neighborhoods in Los Angeles, murdering a number of people, including Roman Polanski’s wife, Sharon Tate. The killers were under the influence of a crazy-quilt mythology that somehow tied together the Beatles’ “Helter Skelter,” race war, and Satan worship. There was some thought that Manson had drawn on some of the writings of the Process Church. I thought there was a difference—he talked about something called the Final Church of Judgment, and the group hanging around with us was the Church of Final Judgment—but this was probably too fine a distinction for a public still trying to get a handle on a killing spree. Rolling Stone gave us a hard time for the association in their review.

There were real-life consequences, too. Right around the time we finished up this record, we were out in California. Half of the band must have gotten the same pussy, so one by one they went off to the clinic. Fuzzy Haskins had a bad reaction to the shot, and having heard on the radio all day about the Family murders, he started rambling about the band right there in the clinic, explaining how we weren’t connected to Manson at all but somehow, in his not-entirely-coherent monologue, making it seem like maybe we were. We were strangers in California at that time. People didn’t know shit about us. We looked weird, and we had weird ideas. The notion that we had anything to do with Manson caused a tremendous problem for a little while.

The Overman
10-05-2015, 08:44 PM


Look down there in the bottom left-hand corner.

Nemoris Inferioris
10-06-2015, 04:52 AM
[QUOTE=The Overman;197902]"And man carries a candle to light his way. And so as man believes he is moving forward, he moves in a state of illusion. The candle lights his way in Hell, so that he can pretend he is in Heaven."

Sounds like the meaning behind the Hermit tarot card.

The Overman
10-26-2015, 10:37 AM
I can't believe I missed this on my initial reading of The Long Hard Road Out Of Hell.

From page 242 of the paperback edition:

When Missi fell asleep, I snuck out of bed and climbed into the barber's chair, watching the shadows of raindrops play on a white ram's head perched atop a seven-foot human skeleton, a relic from the altar of the original Process Church in England.

10-26-2015, 12:23 PM
Although Manson's robes appear to be modelled on The Knights Templar, it's worth noting how he and Twiggy appear similar to a priest of The Process Church during Holy Wood:-


http://www.providermodule.com/Administrators/S.D./tarot_hierophant.jpg http://www.providermodule.com/Administrators/S.D./tarot_high_priestess.jpg

The Overman
10-26-2015, 12:33 PM
That's actually Robert DeGrimston himself.

Funny anecdotal story, not really Manson related but enlightening as to the internal attitudes of the Church itself: DeGrimston was, superficially, the leader of the cult, but his wife Mary more or less ran the show behind the scenes. The organization had attitudes very similar to those of Charles Manson and his Family, and one of the closest parallels was sex - like Charles, Mary would 'direct' sexual orgies among the inner circle of Process initiates like an orchestral composer without often taking part in them herself. She would pair up couples, dictate positions, and so on.

What led to the Church finally splitting is when Robert fell in love with one of the girls he'd paired up with. Mary didn't appreciate this, and evicted Robert from the very movement he'd founded. She repudiated his writings and theology, removed the massive portraits of Robert that dominated Process spiritual centers, and even changed the name of the group.

Robert DeGrimston went on to live a life of anonymity working for a telephone company in New York City; Mary Ann eventually transformed the Process Church into an the Best Friends Animal Society (http://bestfriends.org/), ostensibly a completely secular humane organization but which, according to insiders, still basically operates along cultish lines, albeit without any overt theology.

Two Faced Egg (23)
07-29-2016, 08:21 AM
Got something that maybe of Your interest The Overman

In 1966 the DeGrimstons moved to Merida, Mexico. That's a red flag. We know now that area is a huge Central Intelligence Agency base. Its often called the "Langley of Mexico" Lol

Researching them recently I have strong suspicion the leaders of the Process Church were/are an Intelligence front. And..I think Mar1lyn Man5on knows this..