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Thread: What Are You Reading?

  1. #631
    Raspberry Syncope FeedYourHead's Avatar
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    I just want to say RIP John Ashbery. I thought I'd be less upset about his passing by now but I'm not. He was my favorite poet ever and all of my "about me" sections on social media sites are links to Self-Portrait In A Convex Mirror. Please read his work.


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  3. #632
    Enname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeedYourHead View Post
    I just want to say RIP John Ashbery. I thought I'd be less upset about his passing by now but I'm not. He was my favorite poet ever and all of my "about me" sections on social media sites are links to Self-Portrait In A Convex Mirror. Please read his work.
    I missed that :(

    How sad for his sake, and for myself as it means no more new work.
    Quid ignorantia sit multi ignorant.

  4. #633
    Married to Shangri-LIE Suedehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enname View Post
    The upside to 16th century documents of governance is that a) they are at least mostly in English; and b) they aren't written by historians of the early modern period who I want to kill. There is also the fact that I am a historian, so my idea of a good time is trawling through endless archives of source documentation. I tremble in terror at the prospect of no documents.

    Nothing wrong with finding Richard the better party! I am not attached to any of them either which way (my own period of interest is substantially earlier), but I know that there is has always been a very lively debate on this particular topic. Richard is far more interesting in general though, I will give him that, certainly now that he has turned up in a 'literal' sense.



    So Katharine of Aragon is a difficult one. Much of the materials relating to her are in Spanish (fair enough), many are still in archival format (papal responses, judicial legislation, accounts of Mary Tudor of her as mother) and not readily accessible. Tudor academics are male and arseholes, which drives me utterly up the wall (David Starkey, I am looking at you) and so although she is included in almost EVERY history of Henry VIII in some way, it is on a scale of dismissively as the trouble making wife to Evil Catholic Bitch. She will also be in =almost every single book that deals with the English Reformation and those on Anne Boleyn. So you can keep reading about Henry and be slowly gathering a picture of her. What I've done is pulled the only biography on her and some of her letters (available for free). You can track other items down from the biographies bibliography, or I can begin to pull out documentation from Wolsey and co around her if you are that enthused. I'll keep having a poke around to see what I can find.

    In general though I caution that you should take any representation of her outside of her own writing with a bucket of salt. In particular pop culture. OMG NO.

    You will note I have erred on the side of minimalism in all of these lists, if you want other things/different things/whatever then ask.


    Katherine of Aragon:

    Primary Sources in English and not in archive:

    https://englishhistory.net/tudor/letter/ (letters are there of Katharine)


    Books:

    Giles Tremlett - Catherine of Aragon: Henry's Spanish queen : a biography
    Jill Mobley - Katharine of Aragon: Influence and legacy of a foreign queen of England in the early sixteenth century (dissertation, but if you want it I can get it)
    Henry Angar Kelly - The matrimonial trials of Henry VIII



    Next up: Elizabeth and Mary.

    Rather amusingly, 'Blackadder' is probably more historically accurate in a lot of ways than most popular culture on this topic. Not least because they get the tone right about the religious reforms. There was also an element to Elizabeth that was almost definitely Queenie (she tended to use nudity as way to try and freak out the ambassadors who came to court), if a little less in caricature than 'Blackadder' puts across. The stoic pillar is really her marketing herself to her audience as 'stability' and what not. So, here is a list of some sources and a smattering of texts. I didn't know how much general 'Elizabethan culture and society' you wanted, so I can add those in at need. If you are interested in one area more or less let me know and I can pull a half dozen articles as well.


    Elizabeth:

    Primary source material on Elizabeth that is freely accessible you can have:

    Both the image of the original source document and a transcription.
    http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/e...beth-monarchy/

    This one is full of links to other websites that have all sorts of things.
    http://publications.newberry.org/eli...dwebsites.html

    For any literature of the period for by and large free, there is always (and ever more) archive.org is brilliant for this. Anything post Gutenberg is being scanned and digitised at a rate of knots that is blinding. All of Harvard, University of Chicago, Uni of Toronto and some of the better academic libraries are throwing up anything of the period.


    Available in books:

    Maria. Perry'The word of a prince: a life of Elizabeth I from contemporary documents'
    Arthur Kinney -;'Elizabethan backgrounds: historical documents of the age of Elizabeth I
    Carol Bajetta - Elizabeth I's Italian letters
    Felix Pryor - Elizabeth I : her life in letters
    Leah Marcus - Elizabeth I : collected works

    More general texts:

    Illona Bell - Elizabeth I the voice of a monarch
    Carole Levin - The heart and stomach of a king Elizabeth I and the politics of sex and power
    Rayne Allinson - A monarchy of letters royal correspondence and English diplomacy in the reign of Elizabeth I (this one I can get you probably as I know the author)
    Donald Stump - Elizabeth I and the 'sovereign arts' : essays in literature, history, and culture
    Bernadette Andrea - The Tartar Girl, the Persian Princess, and Early Modern English Women's Authorship from Elizabeth I to Mary Wroth
    Helen Castor - She-wolves : the women who ruled England before Elizabeth (interesting context and there is a documentary series based off this)
    Anna Riehl Bertolet - The face of queenship early modern representations of Elizabeth I
    Margaret Flanagan - The Sultan and the Queen: The Untold Story of Elizabeth and Islam
    Thomas Betteridge - Tudor court culture
    Stephen Budiansky - Her Majesty's spymaster : Elizabeth I, Sir Francis Walsingham and the birth of modern espionage
    Nick Hazlewood - The queen's slave trader : Jack Hawkyns, Elizabeth I, and the trafficking in human souls
    Liza Picard - Elizabeth's London : everyday life in Elizabethan London
    The Elizabethan world / edited by Susan Doran and Norman Jones.



    Mary Tudor

    Primary sources:

    https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/000312485 (free)
    If you want the ridiculous over the top Protestant rhetoric around her, then John Fox's 'Martyrs' is a great place. Lots of dramatic burning.

    For Mary, there is less in published form which is typical. Also the historical research on her tends to skew towards OMG MARY WAS EVOL AND CATHOLIC, which is ridiculous and duh. There is a lot more in dissertation of article format, but not yet published into book.

    The main work on her is still probably Mary Tudor / Judith M. Richards.
    Eamon Duffy - Fires of faith : Catholic England under Mary Tudor
    Susan Doran - Mary Tudor : old and new perspectives
    John Edwards - Mary I : England's Catholic queen
    Alice Hunt - Tudor queenship : the reigns of Mary and Elizabeth


    General Tudor:

    Tudor rebellions / Anthony Fletcher & Diarmaid MacCulloch.
    Tudor government : the structures of authority in Tudor England / David Loades.
    Religion, culture, and society in early modern Britain : essays in honour of Patrick Collinson / edited by Anthony Fletcher and Peter Roberts.
    Massive thanks to you for your exhaustive and punctilious reply here.

    As a starter for 10 I have ordered the Giles Tremlett biography (would love to see the dissertation if you can get your paws on it without too much trouble) and the men in black cravats have been around with their neuralyzer to erase any preconceptions I held about Katherine. That last letter to Henry on her deathbed is excruitiating to read, such a poignant pronunciamento of undiminished and inextinguishable devotion to a man who was probably lacing up his boots in preparation to dance a gleeful jig upon the news of her death (and plotting to lob off the head of the woman he left her for). Bloody hell.

    Also, my latent inner pervert is keen to know more about Elizabeth's penchant for conducting royal business in the buff...did this really happen?

  5. #634
    Enname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    Massive thanks to you for your exhaustive and punctilious reply here.

    As a starter for 10 I have ordered the Giles Tremlett biography (would love to see the dissertation if you can get your paws on it without too much trouble) and the men in black cravats have been around with their neuralyzer to erase any preconceptions I held about Katherine. That last letter to Henry on her deathbed is excruitiating to read, such a poignant pronunciamento of undiminished and inextinguishable devotion to a man who was probably lacing up his boots in preparation to dance a gleeful jig upon the news of her death (and plotting to lob off the head of the woman he left her for). Bloody hell.

    Also, my latent inner pervert is keen to know more about Elizabeth's penchant for conducting royal business in the buff...did this really happen?

    I would be careful reading her letter as undiminished devotion. The formulae involved in composing letters from nobility are all quite repetitious and it is about inflection of the standard. It is a rather strategic letter that really is saying, 'you screwed me over royally and now I am going to put this in writing so that you are obligated to try and pay some sort of money towards the keep of my personal servants, even though you failed to do anything for me, which by the way, let me remind you of.' The forgiveness is more of a taking the moral high ground, and well as a 'you should not have divorced me.' Remember, these things are read aloud to the court and not personal, so she is putting in some sort of performance for the those around Henry. Letters are hard.

    I don't think Henry was head lobbing at that point. More 'getting up skirts' plotting.

    It really did happen - there are countless letters from diplomats to the English court that were all 'and what on earth is the Queen doing, ahahahaha well, I guess we should play along.' Alas none of them are in English or I would show you, but she was quite playful and had the sense of humour of a thirteen year old boy, especially as she got older.
    Quid ignorantia sit multi ignorant.

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  7. #635
    HEAVEN UPSIDE DOWN Hazekiah's Avatar
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    I would just like to add that I am currently reading The Once and Future King at the behest of Enname, Professor Xavier, Magneto, and English Lit. teachers everywhere, lol.

    Only a few chapters in so far but I'm happy to report that it DOES NOT disappoint.





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  9. #636
    Enname's Avatar
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    Instead of spamming the thread with conversation about books, I am currently reading:

    Arundhati Roy - The Ministry of Utmost Happiness
    Quid ignorantia sit multi ignorant.

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  11. #637
    Married to Shangri-LIE Suedehead's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enname View Post
    Arundhati Roy - The Ministry of Utmost Happiness
    Ooo, do let us know what it's like, The God of Small Things was cracking.

    I'm currently leaving coffee cup stains on The Crisis of the Modern World - René Guénon

  12. #638
    Enname's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Suedehead View Post
    Ooo, do let us know what it's like, The God of Small Things was cracking.

    I'm currently leaving coffee cup stains on The Crisis of the Modern World - René Guénon
    Far less compact in both story and range than The God of Small Things, reminds me a bit more of Midnight's Children from Rushdie because of the setting and time range, but with that particular lush headiness of Roy and character insight. I am interested to see how she sustains this for the second half and if it starts crumbling. Will let you know.

    How is René Guėnon? I am afraid I find him a bit to mystical for my tastes.
    Quid ignorantia sit multi ignorant.

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