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Thread: Pogo The Prophet

  1. #1
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    I know that -< me >- was looking for the interview that this is taken from, and it is the only excerpt I have, which I found accidentally on an old computer today. I think what he has to say here would merit some interesting discourse.
    _______________

    "You know 0 is illegal, because if God is everywhere, then he can't not be somewhere. And 0 is a place that doesn't even have God, so it's heretical. And people used to be so freaked out about infinity. Everyone accepts zero with such ease, but not infinity. I mean, the calculator still goes "Eeek!" when you try to do anything with it. All you're doing is dividing by zero. That's all you're really doing, because they are full reciprocals of each other. 1 over infinity is zero, or the limit of it as it approaches, and 1 over zero is infinity. So you have infinity to deal with as soon as you bring in zero. It's the same concept, the concept of every number. There are more numbers that are irrational between zero and one then there are prime numbers in the universe. One infinity is bigger then another infinity. It's just so insane. The set of all numbers in infinite. The set of all positive numbers is infinite. But I know that at any given point, one infinity is smaller then the other infinity. It just goes to show you that math is still truly mystical and magical. It's still cabalistic when you get into higher math. People don't realize that this was shit that you weren't allowed to know in the past. You're lucky that the Church lets you read this. You're lucky that you're allowed to know all the secrets of math. And I think people go to school, and they don't want to learn about, and they don't want to know about it. They don't realize that people died just to have the chance to look upon this information. It's tragic in a strange way. The appreciation of knowledge has decreased so much in my lifetime. It's very sad people like information more then knowledge. And they're not the same thing."

  2. #2
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    Here is another Pogo interview by circus magazine with a similar theme:

    Circus:
    So was this a normal show for you guys-non stop crowd surfing, and the speakers almost getting knocked over and falling on the crowdís head?

    Madonna Wayne Gacy:
    Actually, I think we broke less stuff then normal. We only broke 2 guitars, a lot of beer bottles, and a few mystery things. You'll have to excuse me...I keep spitting up blood. I accidentally ate ground glass tonight. I quit drinking for a while, just to see if I can... a challenge to myself! I'm only drinking water, and all they had out for me tonight was beer. So as soon as I walked on stage, I smashed every beer bottle. There was ground glass over everything. So every time I did anything, I was constantly spitting up glass. I paid for my own stupidity.

    Circus:
    When the band went into the studio for this album, there was a definite plan and a theme you were building on. Did you leave much room for creativity?

    Madonna Wayne Gacy:
    There is always room for creativity. Everybody generally writes their own parts. Mr. Manson doesnít say "Play the keyboard part here" He comes up with the ideas vocally and then I do what I do.

    Circus:
    Was there more room for you to stretch out musically on this album?

    Madonna Wayne Gacy:
    That's real hard for me to tell. When you're on the inside you really canít see. To me, it's always really been the same. We've been working for Mr. Manson for 6 years with this band. We haven't hit a noticeable difference.

    Circus:
    What were the differences between the recording of this record and Portrait?

    Madonna Wayne Gacy:
    On this one, we did a lot of really bizarre things in the studio to try to get the right vibe going. We made some strange little contraptions to torture ourselves. We stopped eating and sleeping and did things in an attempt to alter our own perception. It's strange... there's a lot of weird stuff about this album. Constantly we are finding things in it, we didnít know were in it, but are in it later. You put shit in there but you don't realize why you did, and later it comes back and it's very scary. It kind of predicts the future, but you donít know until itís done. It's kind of spooky in that way. Kind of like that Tupac video where he gets shot at the end. There are some weird things going on... some synchronicity or something.

    Circus:
    What was the hardest part about making this album?

    Madonna Wayne Gacy:
    Living in New Orleans. I hate that place. It's got beautiful architecture and it's nice in the wintertime, but in the summer itís oppressively hot. I guess it might be good to torment you to the point where a lot of hate comes out of you and gets focused onto the record. I guess in that respect it's good. There is some amazing architecture and good culture, but it just seems like a town of the least common denominator where everyone is just filthy and drunk and smelly. People think that that is some how more real, but I donít think living in a sewer is some how more real.

    Circus:
    I guess for this album you wouldn't want to be in an ideal place. It might take away your edge.

    Madonna Wayne Gacy:
    We don't make any place we are at an ideal place. We bring our own misconduct and hate and bad times with us wherever we go. We don't need the city to add to it. We're generally miserable and shitty no matter where we are. Then when you have the extra bonus track of this place... it might have been good in that respect, but I'll have to think about it. A couple of years from now, I'll be able to reevaluate that question, but right now I'm just glad to get out of there.

    Circus:
    This album leaves a lot of room for the next album's direction.

    Madonna Wayne Gacy:
    It does leave a lot of leeway. This album is almost a record and a half. We had enough material for two records.

    Circus:
    Was there any thought given to making this a double album?

    Madonna Wayne Gacy:
    The thought might have crossed our minds, but we wanted it to be cohesive. There is a high thematic content. A lot of songs were particularly chosen to be in a particular order for the structure of the album. There is a lot of numerological significance to what songs we put in there, in what order and how they're set up. I've been studying up on Hebrew Kabalistic and numerological texts. We've been coming up with some strange things with numbers. Spooky. Hebrew numbers and letter like the Roman numbers are letters. So therefore every word has a number that it is associated with as well as every sound does. There are a lot of very powerful things to words that people don't realize. In traditional magic, the most powerful thing is to be able to utter the name of God. You can undo creations. Remember God said "Let there be light". By his very word he created the universe. The word is all-powerful- 'I am the word, I'm the way.' Words are what it is all about Just the ability to pronounce and vibrate the name of God is supposed to be the most powerful magical thing you could ever do in traditional magic.
    We were working on seeing if there was a way to bring about the apocalypse. The apocalypse won't happen. The devil can't break into this world from the nether world and destroy it. He has to be let in by humans. The gates unlock from the inside. He can only destroy the world if you let him in. He can't break in; he's not that powerful. One thing we were trying to do was to open those gates for an apocalypse now. The apocalypse may not be the traditional type of apocalypse where it is the end of the world. But the end of the world does come when you die. Your own experiences die. The world began and ends with you. The apocalypse we are trying to bring about may not be an apocalypse for the entire world. It might actually be your own personal apocalypse. A psychological apocalypse. When you destroy yourself completely by letting in the dark that is out there. Coming to embrace it and accept it, and realize that it needs to be there.

    For things to get better, it always must be destroyed for new ways to come about. We were working a lot with those concepts very deliberately. There is a lot of significance with the numbers and symbols you see with the record. It isn't some ridiculous Ozzy thing. We weren't trying to be like that. It was about the meaningfulness of words and what words are all about. And melodies, too. They're related to words. The traditional idea of words is the power in words is in the words. Vowels vibrate and resonate. That is where tone and melody is. What consonants do is control vowels. They close them off and chain vowels down. We were trying to combine many polar opposites and get past a lot of traditional ideas we had ourselves of what the universe is about and what ourselves are about, because we are the universe. It's weird, I'd like to be able to explain more of this, but it's kind of confusing in some ways. A lot of people find it a bit esoteric, so I don't want to get into it too much and get people completely confused. People, if they ever get a chance, might want to look into it. The word is the most powerful thing there is.

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    The thoughts he offers at the end of that interview are fascinating. I think it's something of a shame that he isn't a part of the band or creative process any more, I feel he was an equal to Manson regarding personal philosophy, and his role in that is overlooked somewhat in the Manson canon also.

    "In traditional magic, the most powerful thing is to be able to utter the name of God."
    "If it hasn't learned your name, you better kill it before they see it"

    This line I believe to be about the power of one's own self, the identity that we hold close to, and the power that others can have over that. If we are "our own wicked gods", then what happens if someone "learns" our name and utters it? Similarly, we must surely also be infinity/zero if we are able to control our own fate?

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    Default Re: Pogo The Prophet

    Quote Originally Posted by S.D.
    I know that -<me>- was looking for the interview that this is taken from, and it is the only excerpt I have, which I found accidentally on an old computer today. I think what he has to say here would merit some interesting discourse.
    Thank you so much S.D.! This is the exact part of the interview that I wanted. As discussed privately, "God isn now here / God is no where", 0 = infinity, Ain sof "et cetera". Thank you also to Miss Lisa.
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    Default Re: Pogo The Prophet

    Just goes to show how much of a genius Pogo was, in his own way. Probably too scrambled in his thinking for most people to be able to understand it, but a genius nevertheless. I intend to read up on the stuff he talks about when I have some more time.
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    Default Re: Pogo The Prophet

    Yeah, if anyone has more Pogo interviews/ponderings on this deeper level like these posted, I would be most interested to read them.

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    Default Re: Pogo The Prophet

    Quote Originally Posted by The Empirical Guy
    Just goes to show how much of a genius Pogo was, in his own way. Probably too scrambled in his thinking for most people to be able to understand it, but a genius nevertheless. I intend to read up on the stuff he talks about when I have some more time.
    This may make me slightly weird, but, I understand it. :S
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  8. #8
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    Default Re: Pogo The Prophet

    Thanks for all your insights guys - I don't have loads of time to post but I've been enjoying reading.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Pogo The Prophet

    Quote Originally Posted by -<me>-
    Quote Originally Posted by The Empirical Guy
    Just goes to show how much of a genius Pogo was, in his own way. Probably too scrambled in his thinking for most people to be able to understand it, but a genius nevertheless. I intend to read up on the stuff he talks about when I have some more time.
    This may make me slightly weird, but, I understand it. :S
    Me too, but shhhhh! Keep it to ourselves, or it attracts attention from men in white coats.
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    I have attempted to theorise the concept of zero/infinity to a degree before, mostly when I originally read this intervew and discussed it with my brother, who is a gifted mathematician, I think it's interesting that they are essentially the only numbers which aren't quantities, but which also cannot be named. Does that mean they are still quantities, what is their substance? Where are they to be found? --- God is nowhere/now here --- "If it hasn't learned your name" --- "We are our own wicked gods" --- et cetera...

    But zero and infinity are also death, they are the end of every thing, but they have no thing in them. It's like the idea of retaining someone's image after they have died, is it actually them? Are we more than the sum of ourselves, or are we reflected in other people, or the cameras that capture our image? When studying film, some theorists I talked with were keen to point out the fact that film doesn't actually "exist", it isn't really there, you're seeing the echo of something that already occurred. And to an extent, all art is that, unless you see it as a part of your self, if you are the art.
    It's also interesting that zero is used to round off other numbers. Why is twenty not a number in itself, why does it have to be a combination of a two and a zero? It's like the ouroboros, a snake eating its tail (itself another depiction of zero/infinity), it seems to signify that you can only get to a certain point before things repeat themselves (when it's all the same you can ask for it by name), and perhaps that if they are representative of God, then like religions themselves, God is always changing, it never has one set personality, because we decide what God is --- "I went to God just to see, and I was looking at me" --- and that is a sign of God's omnipotence.

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