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Thread: EAT ME, DRINK ME

  1. #11
    he[ART] as a SYMBOL [god]speed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.D. View Post
    I have been thinking recently about "The Wasteland" in the title track. Most who remember will probably be aware of it being relative to TS Eliot's poem, The Waste Land, and perhaps as an alternative view of sorts on Wonderland (I have mentioned it before I think, but Jan Švankmajer's Alice depicts parts of Wonderland as being barren and uninhabited), in relation to Carroll.

    Also, a separate point, and perhaps an obvious one, but I have only just noticed that the album operates on a cycle of night into day. The first song on the album is If I Was Your Vampire, featuring the lyric "here comes the Moon again". The final track, EAT ME, DRINK ME, features "I see my horror, mirrored in the sundown of your blank stare". So you have Moon at the start, and then Sundown, which obviously in life leads into night, the Moon: "This is where it starts, this is where it will end".
    Regarding T.S. Eliot and EAT ME, DRINK ME...
    Whenever I hear the lyrics to If I Was Your Vampire, And also in conjunction with the Manson/Carroll 'Rabbit Hunt' this line comes to mind

    We shall not cease from exploration,
    and the end of all our exploring
    will be to arrive where we started
    and know the place for the first time.


    This is where it starts this is where it ends...

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.D. View Post
    I have been thinking recently about "The Wasteland" in the title track. Most who remember will probably be aware of it being relative to TS Eliot's poem, The Waste Land, and perhaps as an alternative view of sorts on Wonderland (I have mentioned it before I think, but Jan Švankmajer's Alice depicts parts of Wonderland as being barren and uninhabited), in relation to Carroll. But another thought I had was that it might reflect the Temptation Of Christ mythology. Much of EAT ME, DRINK ME seems to be focused on temptation and sin, and manifestations of those things. Following his baptism by John, Christ entered the Desert to spend his 40 days and 40 nights, and was tempted by the Devil three times to prove himself as Holy (essentially the Devil wanted him to prove he was more than a mere man, and also to then renounce god the Father and worship the Devil. Now, the "Desert" can surely be seen as the "Wasteland", no? The Devil is referenced several times on the record also, both as external to Manson's commentary - ["The Devil's tits" / You And Me And The Devil Makes 3] - and also, as Christ went to the Desert, he fasted, not consuming solid or liquid, which is reflected in the title of the album. Manson has often compared himself to Christ, and obviously commented on the way the album's name is relative to the Holy Eucharist, but it's interesting, especially in terms of the themes of infidelity that are present, that the temptation of Christ as much as his sacrifice would perhaps be a basis for inspiration.

    Perhaps the incentive is not to be nourished by anyone but yourself, reflecting the thematic of Antichrist Superstar, and resisting the temptation of Devils.
    As for a theological interpretation of 'The Wasteland', the 'Red Queen' may possibly symbolise the devil, since the devil has also been personified as a women in Are You The Rabbit for having 'tits'.

  4. #13
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    Brilliant thoughts emerging on an album that as said, I don't think was explored to its capacity yet, there is still more to learn. The idea of the Devil as a woman perhaps suggests that the title You And Me And The Devil Makes 3 is once more, referring to an external Devil, and Manson as the "you and me", the split sides of his personality drawn to temptation. The latter part of the song has extremes of good and bad partnered with one another as Manson sings "Murdercute, Happyrape". I was advised long ago that Manson enjoys dialogue using personal pronouns, leading people to make assumptions about who he is referring to, but more often than not, he is referring only to himself, the Manson and the Marilyn. I also think that the Devil on the record is personifying fame and vice, and the "she" of The Red Carpet Grave (note the use of red once more) is this same figure. A Celebritarian assessment of some people's senseless desire for recognition would seem to be that "It's no wonder our stage clothes have dreams to be famous", which is noted whilst "on the way to the Red Queen".

    "She hangs the headless upside down to drain", strikes me as noting that the Devil of fame discards the "faceless" ("they love your face" / "watch out your face" / "like a vulture on your face") and "drains" them of their blood, their "art". Perhaps EAT ME, DRINK ME, like 15 on the following record, is a reclamation of the artist's power in some ways. If the Devil of fame has forecast that the "star" will kill their self, and that doesn't occur, then the "star" emerges victorious, surely? Recognising that fame is a blank stare and you can rely only on yourself would reinvigorate you as an artist, perhaps under the assumption that you have nothing to lose, the (were)wolves will be at the door regardless of whether you are on the red carpet or not.
    "the Serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which
    the LORD god had made
    "

    m e m e n t o m o r i . p o s t m o r t e m


  5. #14
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    While watching Jodorowsky's film El Topo the other day, I was struck by one scene in particular that seemed to be an interesting parallel to one of the main themes in Eat Me, Drink Me.



    The scene starts at 1 hour 2 mins 28 seconds in.. I can't get the embedded video plugin to start the Youtube clip at this exact time on the forum, so here's a link to the timing of this scene on Youtube

    In this scene, El Topo meets the third master, Who upon first meeting El Topo suggests that El Topo loathes himself and alludes that is his fatal flaw. Third Master interestingly enough, lives on a rabbit farm of sorts. As El Topo nears the farm, Third Master's rabbits begin to die off one by one and their decomposing bodies are picked off by crows. El Topo and Third Master each shoot a crow as the crows devour the fallen rabbits. Third Master then picks up both crows and asks El Topo if he can tell him "which one is yours and which is mine?"

    El Topo nods and states:
    This one is yours. It was shot through the head.
    This one is mine. It was shot through the heart.


    Third Master then lays one of the bloody crows against
    El Topo's heart and the other against his forehead.

    "El corazón de la cabeza cámbialos de sitio"
    The heart the head. Switch them around.

    He switches the positions of the dead crows, laying the one that
    was on El Topo's heart against his head, and the one that was
    on his head against his heart. He tosses the cadavers away.



    el corazón de la cabeza cámbialos de sitio

    The heart of the head change the site.

    I feel that the concept of "When the heart guides the hand" / utilizing the will of heart to influence the mind's decisions is one of the canonical themes throughout EAT ME, DRINK ME. This albums seems to showcase Manson having a change of heart, letting go of the ego, (the head) Marilyn Manson that he had built upon from the beginning of his career through the Golden Age of Grotesque and shedding that skin. Perhaps Manson is guilty of that same flaw that plagues El Topo, The loathing of themselves, letting their heads get the best of them. This anger inside of their minds was for the longest time, the driving force behind their actions. So by "cutting the head off" or separating himself from the character of Marilyn Manson is what allowed him to become more human during the creation of this album....By letting go of the irrational mind, "cut the head off" and hanging himself "upside down to drain."

    What I mean by that is, if for the longest time you allow your ego to run your life and suddenly cannot relate to that person anymore because it has "poisoned" your blood, Then it makes sense to drain all of that blood, that is full of negativity out, so that it cannot seep through into the new person or relationship. The lyrics of the title track even seem to allude to this. "I've heard she (the Queen of Hearts) hangs the headless upside down to drain." In this line of the lyrics, we have a portrait of the heart (albeit a sort of subliminal allusion to the Alice's Queen of Hearts) and a headless body, which together paints a striking image very similar to the one above taken from the news section of MM.com.


    In a sense, the only thing that separates humankind from it's primal urges to eat, fuck, and destroy everything it sees is through weighing our actions through our hearts. Manson needed to switch the heart and the head around, and allow his heart to guide him.
    When the heart guides the hand.


    I thought it was an interesting parallel, considering Jodorowsky's apparent influence on Manson and the fact that Jodorowsky interviewed Manson during the Eat Me, Drink Me it isn't much of a stretch.


    There's a little bit more to it, as far as Jodorowsky's comments in the interview, and how i think that line of the title track ties into the tarot. which i'll try to maybe post later if anyone is interested.



    If nothing else, it was a nice coincidence to play around with in my mind. I enjoy how Manson's art seems to have the ability to jump off of the screen at times and take on a life of it's own.
    Last edited by apokalypsos; 10-07-2012 at 08:56 PM.

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  7. #15
    Strange & Unusual Sinner Halo Infinity's Avatar
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    I'm not sure if this is exactly the right kind of post for this thread, but Eat Me, Drink Me is really the only Marilyn Manson album that I couldn't seem to get or click with. Now, by all means, I'm not saying that it's a bad record, as I even love some of the drumming and guitar work on it, but as a whole, it really was the hardest Marilyn Manson album for me to sit through.

    And to add to the actual point of this thread, it definitely looks like one enormous reference to his divorce from Dita Von Teese. (As you can already tell, I barely looked into it, because it really was a very challenging listen to me.)

  8. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kris View Post
    I'm not sure if this is exactly the right kind of post for this thread, but Eat Me, Drink Me is really the only Marilyn Manson album that I couldn't seem to get or click with. Now, by all means, I'm not saying that it's a bad record, as I even love some of the drumming and guitar work on it, but as a whole, it really was the hardest Marilyn Manson album for me to sit through.

    And to add to the actual point of this thread, it definitely looks like one enormous reference to his divorce from Dita Von Teese. (As you can already tell, I barely looked into it, because it really was a very challenging listen to me.)
    this is exactly how i feel about it

    "I'm a strip, strip, strip, and I flicker, flick, flick, flick
    A flicker of celluloid and there's holes, holes, holes
    In my everything"


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  10. #17
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    Challenging as in not interesting enough? It's no ass kicker but it is one of his most consistent albums for content and style. I'd say it's also the first album by Manson the individual vs. Manson the band. -Have I said this before? Brain fart.-
    Last edited by Alterkaker66; 11-04-2013 at 05:28 PM.
    "Even smiling makes my face ache."

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  12. #18

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    Here we go again talking shit about Eat Me Drink Me. Well, I guess you can't please everyone. This album is very special to me and helped me through a very hard time when it first came out. I'll admit I don't listen to it nearly as often as I should. I guess I just have a lot of memories tied to the songs. But when I do give it a spin, it's like time travel. I'm instantly back at a very dark but amazing time in life. I love EMDM. I don't think it's better or worse than anything else he has done. It's just different. To each their own I guess.

    But I think it's very unfair to label it as some "Dita" or "ERW" album. The record is LOADED with all kinds of great stuff. Lyrically, it features Manson at some of his most poetic, arguably. It has a ton of great music and lyrics filled with metaphor and references. And anyone who complains about the guitar work mustn't like rock music...

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  14. #19
    Strange & Unusual Sinner Halo Infinity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alterkaker66 View Post
    Challenging as in not interesting enough? It's no ass kicker but it is one of his most consistent albums for content and style. I'd say it's also the first album by Manson the individual vs. Manson the band. -Have I said this before? Brain fart.-
    I had a feeling that I almost forgot to make a reply in this thread entirely.

    It just didn't appeal to me as much, and perhaps I'm too kind to use words like boring and sucks. Besides, I actually don't even see it as a bad record. (And I don't even regret having it in my MM collection at all.) I think for some, as the expression goes, you're either on the train or off it. I think in some cases, some fans also have a hard time having Portrait of an American Family click with them, and they're among the biggest fans of Antichrist Superstar and Mechanical Animals.

    (Just to give you an example here, since in Eat Me, Drink Me's case, you'd still have people have The Golden Age of Grotesque and The High End of Low click with them a lot more.)

    But yes, I'm in no way shitting on Eat Me, Drink Me as I've given it chances before, but I still thought of giving it more chances as some songs are slowly growing on me. In some other ways, as far as reception goes, even kind of like to look at Eat Me, Drink Me as Marilyn Manson's Filth Pig and/or Dark Side of the Spoon. It's also been a very long time since I've listened to Eat Me, Drink Me anyway.

    Anyway, it's really been a while since I gave Eat Me, Drink Me a proper listen and in no way to do I intend to jump the bandwagon, because most of the time, the bandwagon has steered me wrong, and I'd rather figure out such opinions for myself. And I know it's a slow progression as it really was the least listened to in my MM collection, but If I Was Your Vampire and They Said Hell's Not Hot having been growing on me, and I always loved how Putting Holes in Happiness opened.

    In other words, I post in peace Eat Me, Drink Me fans.

    Quote Originally Posted by M Tragedy666 View Post
    Here we go again talking shit about Eat Me Drink Me. Well, I guess you can't please everyone. This album is very special to me and helped me through a very hard time when it first came out. I'll admit I don't listen to it nearly as often as I should. I guess I just have a lot of memories tied to the songs. But when I do give it a spin, it's like time travel. I'm instantly back at a very dark but amazing time in life. I love EMDM. I don't think it's better or worse than anything else he has done. It's just different. To each their own I guess.

    But I think it's very unfair to label it as some "Dita" or "ERW" album. The record is LOADED with all kinds of great stuff. Lyrically, it features Manson at some of his most poetic, arguably. It has a ton of great music and lyrics filled with metaphor and references. And anyone who complains about the guitar work mustn't like rock music...
    That's the thing, I actually like, or even loved the guitar work and the drums. Some of the way these songs start also seem to match the darkness of Portrait of an American Family and Antichrist Superstar. Yes, I'll even go there with that. And lyrically, I've always thought Marilyn Manson had it anyway. Even a little glance at the lyrics let me become aware of that. (Oh, and I admitted to not knowing much about it, so I tried not to make any bold/foolish assumptions.)

    It probably needs a couple of more listens for it to sink in for me. It also can't be due to the slower songs either, as I liked the slow songs in the Triptych. And well, this proves that I could never be completely over Marilyn Manson. I'll always be a fan of Marilyn Manson one way or another.

  15. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by M Tragedy666 View Post
    Here we go again talking shit about Eat Me Drink Me. Well, I guess you can't please everyone. This album is very special to me and helped me through a very hard time when it first came out. I'll admit I don't listen to it nearly as often as I should. I guess I just have a lot of memories tied to the songs. But when I do give it a spin, it's like time travel. I'm instantly back at a very dark but amazing time in life. I love EMDM. I don't think it's better or worse than anything else he has done. It's just different. To each their own I guess.

    But I think it's very unfair to label it as some "Dita" or "ERW" album. The record is LOADED with all kinds of great stuff. Lyrically, it features Manson at some of his most poetic, arguably. It has a ton of great music and lyrics filled with metaphor and references. And anyone who complains about the guitar work mustn't like rock music...
    I love this album, it may even be my favorite Manson album. It's between this one and Mechanical Animals. It just sounds like a metal album to me, except for one song sounds like classic Manson and that is, Mutilation Is The Sincerest Form Of Flattery. It's a heavy Manson album, meaning that there is a lot of layers and all kinds of things hidden throughout it. It stands up through time too.

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