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View Poll Results: The Most Underrated Manson Album Is...

Voters
39. You may not vote on this poll
  • Portrait of An American Family

    8 20.51%
  • The Golden Age of Grotesque

    5 12.82%
  • Eat Me, Drink Me

    9 23.08%
  • The High End of Low

    14 35.90%
  • Born Villain

    3 7.69%
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Thread: Most Underrated Manson album is....

  1. #1
    pabloccb's Avatar
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    Default Most Underrated Manson album is....

    His most- acclaimed albums are Antichrist, Mechanical Animals, Holy Wood and The Pale Emperor.

    What of the other albums deserve more love?

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  3. #2

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    Eat Me, Drink Me. I'll say it again and again. I remember that era, and everyone hating it, myself hating it. It was almost heresy to speak about it on the Phant for awhile.

    After a few years though, I realized what an amazing record that was, along with the reasons we all acted as if we hated it (yes that's a generalization, you all know what I mean, fuck off), which was that Interscope marketed it awfully. They wanted to cash in on the 'emo' craze, present Manson as some kind of elder king of all the shit 'scene' bands with their hot pink anarchy symbols and checkered arm-sleeves and skinny jeans. Teenage girls had his poster up among their Fallout Boy and Brokencyde posters, you'd go to shows and see an uncomfortable abundance of guyliner-clad little teenage fuckwits going through mass-marketed phases and accompanied by their parental chaperones. You just felt a little icky to be a Manson fan around that time, you hid it a little bit. You'd think 'what the fuck is this cringey emotional Tim Burton-Twilight-Myspace crap?' because that's exactly the way EMDM was marketed and those were the kind of people who were consuming him now. You'd never actually listen to the music or lyrics in and of itself as a piece of art, the album was too attached to the 'hot topic elvis' stuff going on externally from it. Thankfully, that mess was cleared up when THEOL came out, everything more or less went back to normal, and over the years EMDM has finally been getting the praise it deserves. But holy fuck, that record was 'the album that shall not be named' for awhile, especially during the THEOL years.

    Born Villain deserves all the hate it gets. That record is largely a lazy pile of nonsense. There's maybe two decent songs, but to me at least, I barely even listen to it. I've said it before, but I didn't know it was possible for a record to sound like a bunch of badly recorded demos, while simultaneously sounding overproduced, until BV came out.

    I also think GAOG is largely overrated, but I'll get to that later. Got girls coming over.

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  5. #3
    Raspberry Syncope FeedYourHead's Avatar
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    I don't believe that Portrait or GOAG were ever denied any of their warranted accolades or merits, so I don't think they were ever underrated in the first place. I think the vast majority of fans and industry buffs both love and appreciate those albums - and rightfully so.

    THEOL is a hidden gem in my opinion. More than half the album is amazing and touches me personally. I also love the color themes, imagery, and concepts. Devour, Four Rusted Horses, Blank and White, and Wight Spider are super emotional and meaningful to me. They are genuine top-tier Manson songs in my opinion. As far as the usual clichè crowd-pleasers, We're From America, Arma-Goddamn-Motherfuckin-Geddon, Pretty as a Swatstika, and Leave A Scar are STILL really good, and by far the best stereotypical crowd-pleasing Manson songs written since GOAG. I feel like they're the last big ones that actually also had something of any substance to say.

    I cannot and will not ever say the same for Born Villain (though there are like 2 songs on that album that I can't live wihout albeit one is a cover) or EMDM.


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  7. #4
    pabloccb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FeedYourHead View Post
    I don't believe that Portrait or GOAG were ever denied any of their warranted accolades or merits, so I don't think they were ever underrated in the first place. I think the vast majority of fans and industry buffs both love and appreciate those albums - and rightfully so.

    THEOL is a hidden gem in my opinion. More than half the album is amazing and touches me personally. I also love the color themes, imagery, and concepts. Devour, Four Rusted Horses, Blank and White, and Wight Spider are super emotional and meaningful to me. They are genuine top-tier Manson songs in my opinion. As far as the usual clichè crowd-pleasers, We're From America, Arma-Goddamn-Motherfuckin-Geddon, Pretty as a Swatstika, and Leave A Scar are STILL really good, and by far the best stereotypical crowd-pleasing Manson songs written since GOAG. I feel like they're the last big ones that actually also had something of any substance to say.

    I cannot and will not ever say the same for Born Villain (though there are like 2 songs on that album that I can't live wihout albeit one is a cover) or EMDM.
    I agree.
    The High End Of Low is the right answer to me. I think it's a top 3 Manson album. Maybe it's not the best quality, but i can relate to most of the lyrics, and also love the dark movie atmosphere it creates.

    The Golden Age isn't his most hated album, but i included it because it received mixed reviews and some fans dislike it too. Many people criticized the music and lyrics as a step back from the triptych.

    I love TGAOG in terms of visuals i think it's his most interesting era, and i'm never tired of the album tbh.

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  9. #5
    JoyfulDarter's Avatar
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    I think THEOL gets a bad rep but I'm biased cause that album saved my life.

    I don't think it's underrated but I don't think Portrait gets enough recognition. It's a really unique album even among all the weird shit Manson has done, I haven't really found anything from any other band that sounds like it. A very standalone product of its time.

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  11. #6
    Man Who Fell From Earth A Gruesome Discovery's Avatar
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    Voted for Portrait. Nothing else sounded like Portrait in '94 and the album deserves more props for exploring "alternative" rock's dark, creepy basement.
    This space intentionally left blank.

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  13. #7
    The Pale Scion Korpz's Avatar
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    GAoG as I am very fond of its rap stylizations and hooks. Visually the era was amazing - Skold was onboard - plus some of the outtakes or specials were mind-blowing.
    .
    The Night in Berlin - I still watch that too oft.
    .
    "And We Will Sleep on the Skin of Its Nightmares..."

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  15. #8

    Join Date: 09.19.17
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    The answer is totally Eat Me, Drink Me imo. First of all, Portrait and Golden Age aren't underrated at *all* - those albums are loved and considered classics by fans. Eat Me, Drink Me is generally considered by ex-fans/the public to be when Manson truly "fell off". But I think that's total crap, I feel that Eat Me, Drink Me is just as much of a classic as Golden Age or anything that came before it.

    It was really unique and fresh lyrically at the time - remember, Marilyn Manson used to sing about society before this. He had love songs forever but I think it's agreeable that Eat Me, Drink Me is the first wholly love *album* Manson made. It also had *all* the trappings of "classic Manson" - it had an immediately identical 'era' and look, back when those things were pretty well sectioned off from each other and Manson took on a whole new aesthetic with every album. It kinda used to be a defining factor.

    I'd say that after EMDM these things started to blur together. Along with the aesthetic and 'eras' getting muddled, it was the last Manson album that had a truly cohesive sound. It was a new sound for Manson and it was a very firm choice that you notice right away and then it rides the wave all throughout. Skold definitely had a strong and blunt sound and style in mind when they created that album and I think it was executed perfectly. Skold's dark almost chill tunes co-mingle like a dream with Manson's decision to try and start using his wailing bluesy crooner voice that has since become essentially his default singing style now.

    I also think it has consistently great lyrics throughout, while there are definitely some 'issues' with some lyrics in the following albums. So those are reasons why I consider the time between EMDM and THEOL a thick, distinct line separating 'classic Manson' era and 'contemporary Manson' era. Two distinct groups of output but for some reason I feel like if I forced 90% of Manson fans to pick a spot to draw the line I'm describing, they would do it after GAoG instead.

    So that's my argument for why the answer is undoubtedly Eat Me, Drink Me. I do however get the feeling that some of the commenters here do not understand the question. I'd even accept Born Villain or High end of Low despite the fact that I generally don't enjoy those albums much at all, but to suggest that either Portait or Golden Age were underrated is ludicrous and seems quite out of touch with the perception of MM's albums among the fan base and others.

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  17. #9

    Join Date: 04.11.12
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    ^ That said, you can hear a few hints suggesting the "wailing bluesy crooner voice" on The Golden Age Of Grotesque. I'm thinking particularly of the outro to "Para-Noir and even the chorus of "Spade". I wasn't very involved in the Manson on-line community then, being pretty young, but I definitely remember a few complaints about Manson wailing on the Grotesk Burlesk Tour.

    At any rate, around 2011 or 2012 the obvious answer to this thread would have been Eat Me, Drink Me. And among casuals that may still be the case, but EMDM has earned its proper place in retrospect among most fans and serious-minded reviewers. It may still be a little underrated - in five or six years' time I'm convinced it'll be commonly considered a top-three Manson album, and as courageous a stylistic experiment as Mechanical Animals one in 1998 - but generally it isn't nearly as loathed as it was at the time of its release, or for a long time after.

    The High End Of Low, conversely, is deeply overrated among core fans, who have convinced themselves that Marilyn Manson was singing directly about their problems when it was written and recorded. Casual listeners still hate the record, and, in this case, the casuals are absolutely right: it's a train wreck of an album, and not in any kind of endearing way. I understand that, given the dispute with Interscope and Manson's deteriorating relationship with Evan Rachel Wood, the man wasn't motivated properly to produce something good. That doesn't abolve THEOL of any of its flaws as an album.


    TL;DR: Born Villain could have been Manson's Sisters Of Mercy/Killing Joke album, the way Antichrist Superstar is his NIN/Ministry album, Mechanical Animals is his Bowie/Slade album, and Eat Me, Drink Me is his Cure/The Cult album. The High End Of Low, conversely, could not have ever been anything but a bad Marilyn Manson album.



    By default the answer is Born Villain. Of course it's deeply flawed from a technical perspective, with one of the ugliest album covers I've ever seen. And it needs a remaster in a way that none of the other albums in the discography really do. But there is a nucleus of a great Marilyn Manson record there in a way that there simply isn't in The High End Of Low - specifically the one-two punch of "The Gardener"/"The Flowers Of Evil", "No Reflection", "Lay Down Your Goddamn Arms" and the title track. Had Manson been willing to exercise a little restrained and not try to shoehorn stylistic throwbacks like "Murderers Are Getting Prettier Every Day" [to Antichrist Superstar] or "Slo-Mo-Tion" [to Portrait] on the record - both songs which, I ought to add, I like, but which give the album a scattershot, stylistically uneven character. Born Villain had potential to be as cohesive a post-punk album as Mechanical Animals was an electro-glam record or Eat Me, Drink Me was a goth-pop album. Rather than "You're So Vain", Manson ought to have considered covering "Lucretia, My Reflection" or "Love Like Blood" for the record. Or, if a poppier track was required, even this would have been more suitable than the Carly Simon song:



    [I still want Manson to cover this, as a belated response to "Heart-Shaped Glasses".]

    At any rate, we have to judge albums as they are, not as they could have been. That said, the fact that Born Villain has potential at all makes it the most underrated Marilyn Manson album. The High End Of Low never had potential to be anything other than what it was.
    Last edited by The Overman; 09-21-2017 at 02:54 PM.

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  19. #10
    Hi, friend BreakingYourMomsOldMound's Avatar
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    GAOG, because it was the album that followed Holy Wood and was Manson's first post-Twiggy release. Tons of people shat on it and continue to shit on it, but it's fantastic on a song-by-song level, even if it isn't trying to convey an in-depth narrative.

    Also, Spade is easily one of the best songs ever written by any artist. The 14 tracks (and 3 bonus tracks) could've just been Manson and Dita making sex noises* and it still would've been a great record by the merit of that track alone.


    *Like that shit John and Yoko did but way more interesting.

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