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Thread: The Year 1999 - Us, Them, and Marilyn Manson.

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    Default The Year 1999 - Us, Them, and Marilyn Manson.

    Remember those days? What did it symbolize to you? What were you WEARING on 4/20/1999? ECT...

    It's been almost 10 years since Holywood was released, and approaching 11 since the tragedy at Columbine. That year began with a tumultuous tour, and eventually resulted in the "amputation" of Hole from the Rock is Dead tour. It was also the year that "John 5" would earn the spot of permenant guitarist, if there is such a role in the band. Manson and the band were promoting a new record that came so quickly after a previous record, that anyone who was a social pariah at their schools, or anyone who felt exactly like Manson did at that point could cling to like divine scripture. He was promoting a record that went in the complete opposite direction as the last. Hence, alienating hoards of fans, but becoming more ecclectic and reaching out to a broader audience, and not just feeding an angry mob of malcontent youngsters. Those records being, of course, ANTI CHRIST SVPERSTAR, and MECHAN1CAL ANIMAL5.

    For me, it was an odd year to begin with. Then I went from being the dork who liked to wear the aparrel of "satanic cross dressers", into someone that people at my small town, Bible Belt school deemed as a potential threat. I had attended a show, on my 17th birthday, April 16th, 1999, in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. Little did I, or many of us know, what was about to unfold, and the blood that would be spilled 4 days later. Before then, hardly any of our peers veiwed us as intellectuals, or worth sparing from a beatdown for absolutley no reason at all. We were all just little "queers", and girls who like to cut ourselves, get fucked up, and piss off our parents, to them. Then, it happened...(explain your story)...

    I remember I was sitting in class, wearing a new tour shirt that I had purchased at the venue. I was in a class full of jocks, quiet smart kids, and of course some filthy metalhead, punk kids with bad hair dye, and shitty attitudes. The bell rang, and I proceeded to my next class. When I sat down, I saw some students already at their desks, and the teacher watching the shooting on T.V.

    I sat there quietly just wanting to go home. But the more they mentioned Marilyn Manson, the more I wanted to go home and listen to one of his records, and get away from people talking about me, and thinking of a way to escape yet another routine jumping by my fellow classmates. I was confused at how the media could make such an insipid accusation. Using an artist as some sort of ersatz martyr, and deflecting the blame onto him, and using him as a scapegoat to elude what really inspired those to kids to create the massacre that they did, on that day.

    To me....I think that is when I truly started to feel more human. Though I admit, that at first, I was happy at what I had seen. That I had seen two like minded misfits build up the courage to kill their bullies. Then as I started to listen to the whole story, reading articles, and doing my own research, I sort of felt bad. I felt compassion for the lives that were lost. I felt anger towards Dylan and Eric for, even though it was unintentional, attempting to asassinate Mansons image, and distort his message, even though they weren't fans of his. This was when the real arma Goddam-Motherfuckin-Geddon occured.

    It was as though we had all been shot, or targeted at the least. It was as though we not only became casualties, yet we were simultaneiously profiled for being potential suspects for similar plots that every school was preparing for, in the days immediatly following Columbine. Then we waited. We waited to see how Manson would react. We waited to see how he would dismantle those who wrongly, and almost practically tried to put him on trial for murder. During the year between the shootings and the release of Holywood, I had met with the partents of a victim from that shooting. The parents of Rachel Scott. I went to a seminar that they were holding in memory of her and to ask what we thought caused the deadly shooting spree. I walked into it wearing a trenchcoat, feeling full of smug ignorance, and came out feeling so much compassion, and guilt for being such an asshole.

    That year would inspire not only fans that have been around since the beginning, but also those just becoming interested in the art of Marilyn Manson, to bite a little harder on that bitter apple. If we were going to be made emblems of potential violence, and mishandled like toy guns. We wanted to know where the bullets came from. We wanted to unite, and form an even tighter kinship with eachother. This "era" will always be the most memorable, as far as I can see ahead, because for that moment...we were part of the story, the theme, and we were all involved.

    *Passes the story telling stick.....
    Last edited by Shangri-LIE; 03-17-2010 at 09:24 AM.
    OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM


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    It was probably slightly different in England, simply because of the fact that we don't have regular access to firearms, but the atmosphere and aftermath of Columbine? Yes, I remember it well...

    Despite attempts by the UK press to latch onto the American witch hunt, we're a little more realistic here, and people weren't openly associating Marilyn Manson with the event, regardless of some newspapers trying to paint a picture of him as intrinsic to the murders.
    I remember it was a pretty swift turnaround though, the rock singer whose interviews I admired, and whose logos I would scribble onto schoolbooks when I should have been working was suddenly national news, my grandparents were discussing the name "Marilyn Manson" as though he was David Koresh, and fellow students seemed to notice White Zombie and Manson posters in my locker a little more avidly than before...

    However, aged twelve or thirteen, I don't think kids here really believed the threat of school shootings was possible in England, neither do I think they associated rock and roll music with that sort of event. I remember some people started asking me questions about the bands I liked, but mostly it was respectful. There weren't a lot of kids with dyed black hair and heavy metal records in my classes besides me, and I like to think I've always been able to express myself coherently, so any explanations I gave were usually accepted.
    There were some girls that got freaked out by pictures of Manson in magazines I read, but I also remember them reacting similarly to the cover art for Gormenghast when I was reading that on a lunch break. I think teenage girls are generally freaked out by a lot of things they don't understand. Actually, in a couple of cases, girls started talking to me more avidly about my interests and paying me attention after Columbine, which at the age of thirteen naturally terrified me, but in retrospect I must have seemed like some awesome deviant.
    I did like testing people's stupidity though, if a girl asked me whether I was into Devil Worship or something retarded, I'd say "sure, I also like to bleed all over people" and then grab a pair of scissors. They'd usually run off, I wouldn't even have to pretend to do anything.

    Anyway, I might have been a little foolish, but it seemed funny at the time, so on one occasion I played a "prank"...
    The school had internet in the library, and although access was limited, I still used to go there and search for various music news, and I also checked up on a lot of marilynmanson.com updates whilst I could, most of the Holy Wood transformation from Mechanical Animals I saw at the school library (irony abound), but after my prank I wasn't allowed on the computer network any more...
    They had an internal email service, between students, only accessible on the school server, and they showed us how to use them in ICT class. I was bored, and there was a student I'd been discussing Columbine with that week, and how Klebold and Harris managed to share information about the pipebombs and suchlike online. This person knew my sense of humour well enough, and I thought they'd appreciate a "threatening" email now that we'd been shown how to use them, so I sent something with a title like "CULL THE TREES OF LIFE" and filled it with Trenchcoat Mafia-esque shit about covering school hallways in blood or some rubbish. In all honesty, I assumed it would only be read by the recipient, and seeing as they were sat across the room when I wrote it, I figured it was a light-hearted joke, but obviously I had no idea about server filters...

    So computer technicians traced this email when certain words came up, and suddenly I was dragged out of class and all my tutors thought I was about to go Postal. My mother and I did a good job of convincing them that I just have a cuntish sense of humour, so that was lucky. They didn't think I was mental after that, as much as they probably just thought I was a dick.
    But still, that said, I wouldn't have been making jokes like that publicly, it was more of a misunderstanding, the aftermath of Columbine as a cultural feeling was a very serious thing, but I was grateful that in England at least, the Manson connection was largely brushed off. I think because we created people like Ozzy Osbourne and Judas Priest, we know that music isn't responsible for violence, and stupidity is.

    As Shangri-LIE has said, though post 20.4.99 reactions were more fervent in the US, it was a weird time to be a Marilyn Manson fan, and of extreme culture in general. I am grateful to at least have been there, and aware of how media can affect people, though I think important lessons were learned. There is no good or bad time to become a fan of something, but I do think that people who became interested in Manson after around 2000 would have a hard time understanding what it all seemed like when Columbine erupted, especially for Marilyn Manson himself.

    After that point I became a lot more fervent in exploring musical histories, and trends of counter-culture, I felt I owed it to people I admired to know the reasons why they existed, and to let people know more about what I had learned, so that mistakes like the media reaction to Marilyn Manson in 1999 wouldn't happen again. I suppose ten years later, this website is a perfect way to do that, although the focus on Manson is different now, I would hope that anyone coming here looking for information would get the truth as much as we can offer it.

    I also got banned from the school internet service permanently a year later for looking at semi-nude pictures of Elizabeth Hurley.
    "the Serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which
    the LORD god had made
    "

    m e m e n t o m o r i . p o s t m o r t e m


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    Thanks for sharing that, S.D.,

    You really put into perspective how fantastical our media is here in America, as opposed to other parts of the world. We turn tradgedies into semi-fictional scenes to satiate our appetites, and to feed a salivating population a story that no one will question because it isn't rationalized, it is glorified, it is romanticized. I also did have a giggle at your pranks. Here, in the states, at that time, if a student were to have that type of audacity, we would've been expelled and been sent away to a juvenile detention ward. I also remember being looked at as some sort of "icon" at school. It was strange. I met my first girlfriend during that time period. Some little Mansonite girl, who I had no idea existed, who secretly worshipped Manson, and at first told me she thought that I was one of his "messengers". She thought that I was her "saviour" for a while, it was silly, but we were still young. It's odd because I can still smell those days, I can still get a chill from thinking of it if I think back hard enough.

    "It is time for their world to be destroyed. It is time for a new age, the Age of Horus. It is time for a new standard, a new canvas, and a new artist. We must forget this wasted generation and amputate it before the mind rots away with it. Paint it, record it, write it down before they kill you with their slow poisonous stupidity. Make yourself heard."
    OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM


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    I first got in to Manson when MA came about, so it was only the space of months later that Columbine happened... hearing Manson's name mentioned, I just felt confused as to how someone clearly so intelligent could be associated with an act of mass violence. There is a whole side to the actual massacre and my feelings towards it which I don't feel like typing right now as I'm tired, but as far as the relation to Manson goes, just confusion really.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Empirical Guy View Post
    I first got in to Manson when MA came about, so it was only the space of months later that Columbine happened... hearing Manson's name mentioned, I just felt confused as to how someone clearly so intelligent could be associated with an act of mass violence. There is a whole side to the actual massacre and my feelings towards it which I don't feel like typing right now as I'm tired, but as far as the relation to Manson goes, just confusion really.
    Well, you still shared your story, that you are more than welcome to edit, and elaborate on once you have the proper amount of rest. ;)

    As for everyone else who are just ghosting this thread..... Speak now, or I will take all of your first born's and offer them to the chainsaw jaws of Middle Earth. ;)
    OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM


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    I wish I could add to this thread but being only 9 yrs old and sadly not a Manson fan at the time I can not. :(
    I use words sharp as a sword

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    I got into MM when SLC came out while living in Florida, but moved out to SLC, Utah shortly after ACSS right before I started 7th grade ... which would have put me at about 12 years old. Just for those who are unaware, Salt Lake City is a 99% Middle Class, White, Christian demographic. As with the majority of those I attended school with, my family attended church regularly (LDS church), so the guys I study math with are the guys I study the bible with. Basically a lot of gossip spreads around through the church about how those behave outside in the "real" world.

    So to back track, I'm 12yo and move to Utah. I'm a fairly scrawny kid who really keeps to himself and plays in the school band. I never had a social group I clung to in school, so most often you would find me treading through the halls with my headphones on my ears. Marilyn Manson was really the only band I was huge into at the time, but my parents being the god-fearing christians they are banned anything to do with the band. So my music was contraband and was smuggled under the disguise of other cassette tapes or CDs that I would stash in my locker at school. Actually, school was really the only place I could be open about being a Marilyn Manson fan. My locker was decked out with posters and I quickly became known as one of the "goth kids in black".

    I remember the lead up to MA's release, and once in my possession I think my fandom got a strong hold on me. Now, to the general public MM was a symbol of goth/satan/evil - so once The Dope Show hit MTV (and The Box!) a lot of perceptions of MM where up in the air. As a fan, and really latching onto the MA style a lot of questions where raised about me being a satan worshiping queer. I got picked on, got into some fights (I never started one, and typically didn't win), but for the most part people kept their distance and I kept mine.

    Then Columbine hit. Now for those who don't already know, my real name is Dylan. Once the news broke about the shooting, and the rumor of them being fans of Marilyn Manson I experienced a new level of hostility like no other. From school mates, from teachers, and any other school personal. I had never been into serious trouble, but suddenly this school sees me as "Dylan who dresses in all black and listens to Marilyn Manson". I could feel everyones suspicion of me in every glance. No one ever really asked me what I thought of the school shooting, but I know it was something everyone was thinking.

    I'm not a violent person in any way, but suddenly I'm being asked if I'm going to blow up the school, or people even telling me they'll be my friend if I don't kill them. This both broke my heart yet filled me such hate. I felt like an enemy of the state where my every step was being watched, like I had some plan that even I was unaware of. This all escalated with a certain classmate who thought it would be funny to start calling me Klebold. For weeks I tried to push it off, but at every turn I'm being reminded that I'm somehow placed on the same level as a murderer just because of name, and my favorite band. So a fight breaks out in the hall and I punch him in the nose.

    I'm pulled out of class by the school principal, and they inform me that I'm being removed from the general population of school and being placed in a program class that is housed in a portable building on the most southern part of the school property. When asked why, it wasn't because of grades, or fights, or drugs or anything of the like. The actual reason they gave me was that they "see warning signs" that tell them I am a threat to the student body and myself.

    I went through the motions and finished out my 9th grade year in this alternate classroom and shortly into my 1st year of High School, Holywood dropped. Looking back, I wish I had Holywood when I went through all the above because it really gave a clear picture of the current state of things. Just having no idea why I was being singled out the previous year really cast a lot of self doubt and worry in my mind. Thankfully I got made it through and pulled my head out of the beehive.

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    1999, quite a yer for me.

    At the time I was in 9th. grade (which, for those of you who don't know about it, in my country we don't have the 4-4-4 schoolar divisions, rather a 6-3-3 one). So, 9th. grade was the end of my middle school (and also the end of 9 years studying in the same boys-only catholic school) so, I was pretty pissed off and eager to get the fuck out of it. I was the "nerd" kind of guy at the time, always excelling at school and watching how all my friends were already in the line of scoring with chicks, smoking cigarettes and getting drunk, while all I wanted to do on weekends was to watch soccer games.

    By that time I was already "the" Manson fan. Everyone knew that I was the biggest fan at school so, everything Manson-related couldn't pass without me knowing about it. The band's videos were heavily rotated, he appeared on Mtv news every 5 minutes... he was at his peak. And I clearly remember the day that the Columbine tragedy happened, because that morning my mom told me, crying, that some "Manson fans killed everyone at their school, in the U.S." Over here it received a huge media coverage, I don't know why. And that day, at school, everybody was mocking at me, asking me if I was going to get breast implants and shoot everyone.

    Now that I think about it, Columbine left a mark in the way I perceived things. Those times were the ones in which I can now admit that I was just being awoken o real life, and that event rushed such process. My contempt for solitaire wandering instead of trying to fit into social groups that held themselves based on fake, hipocritical bullshit grew up from it, because I understood that it is better to be hated for what you are thatn being hated for what you're not.

    Anyway... At that time all I had were cassettes and mtv, who would decline a few months afterwards. I don't care about anyone from that year, all my good memories from 1999 are attached and related to awesome songs.

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    This is an inspiring thread, reminds me why I'm such a fan. Thanks for sharing, guys.

    Unfortunately, however, for the same reason as Nick, I have nothing to contribute.

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    Cringeon and Mexicanfiend, fantastic stories, thank you for posting. This isn't necessarily relevant to Columbine overtly, but at the same time, it very much is. The other significant Marilyn Manson event for 1999 was this:-



    Less attention is paid to The Last Tour On Earth than I think is fair, at the time of release it was a bold move, for a variety of reasons. I believe the inclusion of Get Your Gunn on the album was entirely deliberate for the sake of irony, but that's a minor point, overall this release heralded a nice Apocalyptic end to Marilyn Manson's story in the Twenty-First Century, and the death of Christ was imminent in the oncoming Millennium (again, MM).
    Like Remix & Repent (which obviously serves in part as a demonstration of the Manson live experience in its time) it worked as an effective bridge between Mechanical Animals and Holy Wood, and whether intentional or not, the artwork certainly seems to reflect the transformation that would occur between Omega and Adam Kadmon, in the form of Manson in the liner notes and the back sleeve. Obviously Manson's crucifixion on the cover of Holy Wood can be bridged through the burning TV cross on the sleeve as well, and, if we assume a later motif for transformation, the record cover reflects Manson's decision to go "Into The Fire" of condemnation, through which he ultimately emerged the victor.

    Also, though it wasn't exactly extinct, another thing The Last Tour On Earth is not given credit for is the "resurrection" of the live album concept. I can remember the musical landscape of the late nineties well, and live albums weren't in vogue, the over saturation of sampling and pop, and less of a focus on rock and roll music in its truer forms had softened the impact of live music, and in the larger scheme of things, at the time Manson was the only global act really giving audiences proper entertainment in the field.
    In the Seventies and early Eighties, live albums were far more common, whether for contractual reasons, or just because it helped spread the word at a time when there was no internet or Music Television. The Last Tour On Earth, for my money, took the idea and reconstituted it as an art form, there is as much detail and care in the sleeve and packaging for it as any of Manson's records, and if you got it at the time of release like myself, you had the second option of the deluxe edition, in which there was a bonus disc of songs. For a hungry young fan who had been knocked off their feet the year before by Mechanical Animals, this output certainly filled the void waiting for the next installment.

    Moreso (and this was before his emergence from self-imposed exile and Bowling For Columbine) I don't think enough respect is given for the balls the band showed in putting out this album. During the version of Antichrist Superstar that appears, Manson screams "You can't kill me motherfuckers", to applause, and fuck me, if having The Reflecting God as the opening track on the album after the intro isn't ballsy as Hell, I don't know what is - "Shoot, shoot, shoot motherfucker". Contextually opposite to Columbine the song may be, but still, as Manson shouts "I'm tired of dying for your fucking sins" before the chorus, I challenge anyone not to feel a shiver run down their spine at how motherfucking prophetic that is in reflection of the media shitstorm. And to close? Astonishing Panorama Of The Endtimes, with lyrics about bombs, shotgun gauges and glassjaws exploding is one motherfucker of a powerful statement to end a 1999 Marilyn Manson album with.
    And yet how easily people forget...
    "the Serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which
    the LORD god had made
    "

    m e m e n t o m o r i . p o s t m o r t e m


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