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Thread: The Year 1999 - Us, Them, and Marilyn Manson.

  1. #21
    Married to Suedehead Shangri-LIE's Avatar
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    "Holywood (In the Shadow of the Valley of Death) " really epitomized the inevitable if anything else. MARILYN MANSON attacked the mainstream with such an incredible centrifugal force, that it was obviously inevitable that both Household Godsucker, as well as the star falling to Earth would kill everything, including itself. It was a volatile occurence that accrued the expected amount of casualties.

    However, everything can be bought, transformed, and reincarnated in the shadows.
    Last edited by Shangri-LIE; 03-21-2016 at 05:53 AM.
    OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM


  2. #22
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    You know, DEVOURER, I think there's definitely a few ideas that can be extrapolated from what you've suggested, and I guess it didn't occur to me beforehand.
    During Mechanical Animals, Marilyn Manson stated "I will be destroyed by my own standards", and it's true, to a degree that will always be the case, for every recalibration and reconstruction of art and beauty that he's designed, there will always be someone who says "it's ugly", or will compare a current output to a past one and deem the recent work not good enough. The irony of a person who made previously taboo or ugly things acceptable and challenging lost on those people, of course.
    Columbine as an event destroyed the "standard" of Manson's wry commentary on how entertainment was becoming plastic, safe and cold in the late '90s, Omega being a perfect manifest of that (although presented with Manson's penchant for irony, and "low" art in a high form). That meant he was forced somewhat into a corner by association of being used as a scapegoat. Holy Wood is what happens when you put Marilyn Manson into a corner, he creates something truly awe-inspiring, one of the most complex, violent yet beautiful, harrowing, and multi-faceted rock albums ever made.

    I think there's a very clear reason why the first lyric from The Golden Age Of Grotesque is "Everything has been said before, nothing left to say anymore", because essentially, that's true. There is nothing spake during any part of The Tryptych (and to a lesser degree, Portrait Of An American Family) that cannot be directly applied to the problems, issues and violence of today's world, and future worlds. Yet someone always finds a way to criticise Manson for not commentating socially in the same ways he once did, to which I always think, why do you need him to? Was the message not loud-and-fucking-clear the first time around?
    Okay so some Holy Wood-esque issues were present on songs like Blank & White, Arma-Goddamn-Motherfuckin'-Geddon and We're From America more recently, I'm not saying Manson should never make statements condemning what he sees around him because of past albums where he already did that, but the point is that misplaced blood on his hands coupled with a climate of fear and retribution caused Manson to make the most astounding musical statement of our generation, and people forget so quickly ("Lest We Forget", indeed). That's why there's nothing left to say anymore on The Golden Age, because Marilyn Manson didn't fucking need to say anything following the year 2000, even if he chose to continue doing so.

    Incidentally, I had a dream last night (no, I'm not doing the Drugs speech!), and it was surreal, because I was watching the Guns, God & Government show that I first saw in London almost a decade ago, with the 2001 line-up, and Cruci-Fiction In Space was being played, but the version of the song was the one I heard last December, almost ten years later. It was quite spooky (kids) actually, because in correlation with this subject, it was like nothing had changed, even though what I was seeing and what I heard were ten years apart, but contained within the same "space". I think that works as an appropriate, if slightly long-winded metaphor for some of the things being discussed here.
    I don't even know if I just explained that properly, or if it makes sense, but it was a bizarre, very lucid feeling.
    "the Serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which
    the LORD god had made
    "

    m e m e n t o m o r i . p o s t m o r t e m


  3. #23
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    I was 19 back in 1999. Manson heavily grew on my in the summer of 98. I got to see them for the first time during the Mechanical Animals promo tour, so the Rock is Dead tour was built with anticipation. We had our tickets for the Easter Sunday show (4.4.99). All four of us decided to take acid before the show. Certainly, it wasn't the brightest decision, considering the stage show that went along with it. The Columbine tragedy was quite shocking and sad, but I was already out of high school to fully feel its effects. I'm sure if I was in high school I would have been tormented by all of the "cool" kids.

    The build up of HOLY WOOD and the year 2000 was incredible. I remember how the website used to be with the "ADAM" gun barrel sounding layout. It was awesome. I remember that I was suppose to head up to NYC with my friends for the album release , only acoustic show. Unfortunately, I had a college final that I had to take so my friends headed there without me. To this day, I still regret not going. They also headed to his TRL appearance. I was in Philadelphia holding our spot early in line for the show that evening. They had tickets to attend 13 shows. I only had so much vacation time I could take so I bought tickets for 5 shows. The two Philly shows were incredible. My first time to ever get a backstage pass. What an experience. After the second show, we made the drive up to Toronto for the next show. The next day in Toronto the band was doing a signing at a local radio station. It was cold out. I remember waiting in line and about 10 people behind us is where they decided to stop taking autographs. It was my first time meeting the band. What an experience. The next day was the show in Toronto. The show was in a beautiful theater setting. We also got backstage passes again!! The next day was the show in Rochester, NY. Probably one of my all time favorite Manson shows. To hear Diary of a Dope Fiend for the first time was insane! Also, this was Two days later was the show in Fairfax, VA (right near Washington DC). What a week that was.



  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.D. View Post
    You know, DEVOURER, I think there's definitely a few ideas that can be extrapolated from what you've suggested, and I guess it didn't occur to me beforehand.During Mechanical Animals, Marilyn Manson stated "I will be destroyed by my own standards", and it's true, to a degree that will always be the case, for every recalibration and reconstruction of art and beauty that he's designed, there will always be someone who says "it's ugly", or will compare a current output to a past one and deem the recent work not good enough. The irony of a person who made previously taboo or ugly things acceptable and challenging lost on those people, of course.Columbine as an event destroyed the "standard" of Manson's wry commentary on how entertainment was becoming plastic, safe and cold in the late '90s, Omega being a$perfect manifast of that%:0(although tresented with!20Manson's xenchant for%2<irony, and "low" arx in a higd form). T`at meant he!20was forced%>0somewhat intc a corner by association of being$used as a scapegoat. _I]Holy Wood)5B/I] is what happens%2<when you pu| Marilyn Mafson into a corner, he!20creates sommthing truly%2<awe-inspiring%2O one of t`e most comp`ex, violent yet beautifql, harrowing, and mulpi-faceted rocc albums eve~ made.

    I think there's a(very clear ~eason why t`e first lyrac from [I)5DThe Golden`Age Of Grotesque[/I] is "Everythang has been!20said before!2C nothing deft to say%:0anymore", because essentially, thap's true. There is notding spake during any part of The Tryptych (and to a lesser degree, Portrai| Of An Amarican Family) thap cannot be directly appdied to the%>0problems, essues and vmolence of tgday's world!2C and future worlds. Yat someone a`ways finds e way to criticise Mansof for not gommentating socially in t`e same ways he once did, to which I always think, why do you need him to? Was the message not loud-and-fucking-clear the first time around? Okay so some Holy Wood-esque issues were present on songs like Blank & White, Arma-Goddamn-Motherfuckin'-Geddon and We're From America more recently, I'm not saying Manson should never make statements condemning what he sees around him because of past albums where he already did that, but the point is that misplaced blood on his hands coupled with a climate of fear and retribution caused Manson to make the most astounding musical statement of our generation, and people forget so quickly ("Lest We Forget", indeed). That's why there's nothing left to say anymore on The Golden Age, because Marilyn Manson didn't fucking need to say anything following the year 2000, even if he chose to continue doing so.

    Incidentally, I had a dream last night (no, I'm not doing the Drugs speech!), and it was surreal, because I was watching the Guns, God & Government show that I first saw in London almost a decade ago, with the 2001 line-up, and Cruci-Fiction In Space was being played, but the version of the song was the one I heard last December, almost ten years later. It was quite spooky (kids) actually, because in correlation with this subject, it was like nothing had changed, even though what I was seeing and what I heard were ten years apart, but contained within the same "space". I think that works as an appropriate, if slightly long-winded metaphor for some of the things being discussed here.
    I don't even know if I just explained that properly, or if it makes sense, but it was a bizarre, very lucid feeling.
    Fucking encyclopedia BritainNIGGAS,

    No offense, but no, it doesn't make sense. Well, in context of this topic anyway. It started to, then it got eaten by undaunted S.D.'ness

    A novella here, a novella there? Christ, I'd love to hear how you congratulate your partner for a jolly good orgasm, or console someones family for their loved one being dead. LOLlipops


    As for what there is to be extrapolated from what I said? I think that you have some extraordinary elucidations, but this thread is not an analyseese. Marilyn Manson died, as well as "team CblameNN", on Hitlers Birthday. It wasn't the death of the artist, nor the spirit, but rather the emblem. It was like an inside joke that came to a traumatic end too soon. Then it became real. The Apocalypse intruded MARILYN MANSON'S life in divorces, sorrdid affairs with teenage girls, and losing best friends because Manson is a fucking drunk. Even though the golden years seem to have been recaptured, they didn't just appear out of an "alchemical bribe", it was out of desperation. I know this.
    Last edited by Shangri-LIE; 06-09-2010 at 09:31 PM.
    OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM


  5. #25
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    1999. I was in Christian middle school, a fat preteen attempting to resurrect my faith after a long and worrisome bout of spiritual stagnation and indifference. Despite puritanical intentions driven essentially by a fear of Hell, I found myself hanging out with a small group of two goth kids and one skater--perhaps the three most intellectually developed individuals in my eighth grade class, at whom I can still marvel these eleven years later. The questions that snaked in to my heart through my ears during my lunch breaks with that group bled out through my fingers in the form of doodles and writings and binder covers, and in time I had gone from being one of the most trouble-free students in the school's history to being a shadow pariah through quiet occasional "pull asides" by faculty members. My grades slipped too and I received the first--and only--F's of my academic career, in English, after not reading a page of the books we were assigned. It was the year I burned-out after a short life of academic and congenial excellence, but I didn't even notice. I was too busy running away in front of the television, consuming daily reruns of The Simpsons like cookie dough ice cream during a tumultuous breakup.

    The lunch group could be described as the Marilyn Manson group, because Antichrist Superstar was essentially the cultural hub of its existence. I, still clinging to the idea of organized salvation and the many distortions married to it, secretly refused to hear the band because, at that time, Marilyn Manson was still the devil and scared the hell out of me. The contradiction between my attitude and the abstinence was obviously lost on me; the ideas were alluring, but involvement was a terrifying prospect to a struggling Christian. I was asked during one particularly lame student gathering if I wanted to try "being" goth.Unclear about the meaning of the question, I rejected the idea flatly from behind a mask of indifference, concealing a storm cloud of absolute terror.

    I transitioned into high school with a whisper and have not seen those kids since. It's a wonder that so many years later, I really miss them. In the summer of 2000 my curiosity finally got the best of me, and I sneaked a listen to Mechanical Animals during a night alone with my uncle's extensive music collection. I was hooked immediately and slowly the thought of keeping my religion became as unappetizing as putting a cactus in my ass. I continued and completed high school through a private Christian academy, once again claiming the distinctions of academic and behavioral superiority--my growing shadow bubbling with quiet amusement all the while. I was favored to the point of tutoring and grading fellow students, sitting right next to teacher, without an acceptable thought in my teenage head. I felt like Lucifer. It was marvelous.
    Last edited by Hexon.Arq; 06-10-2010 at 10:25 PM.

  6. #26
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    ^^ That's an awesome story. I feel so identified with it.

  7. #27

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    Default 1999, back then!!!!

    I wish I could have added something here, but I was only about 8 years old, back then and I didnt even know Manson, that time. I didnt even listen to any music, at that age, as well.

  8. #28
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    Re-visiting this one. And it's only because I think we're entering a similar climate again, if not worse than back in 1999. And even though there have been NUMEROUS School Shootings since then, Columbine was different in a lot of ways/respects. I think that I may have mentioned this, I'm pretty sure that I have actually, but it's something that I want to talk about again. It's also a reason why I make the comments that I do about Christians/Christianity and People, especially "us" Fans who vehemently oppose it. And not in an adult way, but in an equally hypocritical militant "FUCK JESUS!" sort of way too, as well. Grow the fuck up already. Even if it is a delusional fairy tale. Those Kids/People were still People with real lives, real emotions and real dreams in/for life. And you just had to have "been there". And that's one reason why I think that, and I've said this before, that Marilyn Manson should have left THAT part/subject out. He even met with one of the shooting victims and his family, and they were nothing but welcoming. Did he sit there and judge them? No. Did he say that God wasn't real and that Jesus was fucking stupid? No. He was actually nervous to meet with him and his Parents. He actually had sympathy for him and wanted to talk to him about what happened. He visited him PERSONALLY and let him do almost ALL of the talking.

    The Columbine Shooting had absolutely NOTHING to do with Religion, Music/Art or anything else other than two assholes, who were in fact just spoiled, fucked up in their heads, bullies. It also had nothing to do with Marilyn Manson. Other than in the Mainstream Media who fueled fundamentalist groups to descend upon Littleton, Denver and other surrounding areas. What really changed things for me, is that, and again, I think that I've mentioned this before. Was going to a Seminar where Rachel Scott's Parents were speaking and interacting with other People who were there. And this was even before, well, right before Holywood was released....or maybe just a LITTLE shortly afterwards. I don't exactly remember, but it was close. I ended up learning a lot and also felt like such a HUGE Asshole/Douchebag, because I wore a Trenchcoat to it. And they were the kindest, most forgiving and pensive people. They didn't even blame Marilyn Manson. As a matter of fact, as it was explained, a lot of the victims Friends and Families just wanted to be left alone. They didn't even care about or want to talk about Marilyn Manson. They all sort of knew Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris and that they were lunatic assholes, nothing more and nothing less.

    As much as I LOVE Holywood, I don't see it as "Marilyn Manson standing up for himself" record. He could have made a lot of commentary and used the Shootings as part of the theme, but without the whole almost "Well, I was sort of a victim in a way too" slant. And he did, don't deny it. As a matter of fact, both KMFDM and Slipknot were equally as blamed. A lot of you get your idea that Marilyn Manson was alone at the epicenter of it because of "Bowling for Columbine", and he wasn't. But with all of the recent uprisings in Hate Groups, Religious intolerance on BOTH sides etc... I see similar massacres actually fueled BY those things as opposed to in 1999 whenever the Columbine Massacre occurred. To a lot of People who weren't fans at the time on here, or in other groups, there's a detachment from the reality and the gravity of the situation that happened. Whenever you see a Mother stand up in front of People, one whose daughter was just gunned down by some fa-ggot psychopath, and she says "And my Baby was just sitting there drawing a Picture. And that's when he put a gun to her Head and asked her if she believed in God. And then he just killed her....and laughed". Or Her father, holding up a bullet and saying "And my Daughter was shot...in the Head...for no reason...by a Monster...who would have shot Her anyway....and just because She said that she believe in God. This happened just because People ignored the warning signs. As a matter of fact, they encourage that type of behavior out there.". It wasn't about Marilyn Manson. It wasn't about Religion at.all. It was about a Culture who still continues to ignore warning signs. The real ones. It was about how violence is just "normal here" acceptance and the "kids will be kids even if they're fucking playing around with explosives and Military Assault Rifles" type of mentality that a lot of People have today more than ever. But NOW.......they have some REAL rhetoric to draw from. And I'm not just talking about Donald Trump either. And it's something that I see happening again. And no, not just a typical School Shooting either. Real either Politically or Religiously/Anti-Religiously motivated shootings/massacres.
    OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM


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  10. #29
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    More importantly, does anyone know if this fine little peach is still living in Littleton? Single maybe, crying a lot less?



    I'd pipebomb her hallway, if you catch my drift.
    "the Serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which
    the LORD god had made
    "

    m e m e n t o m o r i . p o s t m o r t e m


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  12. #30
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    Nothing is real...
    OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM


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