Amerecovery

[Shangri-LIE]

This isn't a mystery lyric observation. This is just a cleverly titled slant on Mansons defection from the impedimentary subjugation of American approved content , which is almost reminiscient of the Reichsmusikkammer, across the pond to the UK based Cooking Vinyl. The song "We're From America" to me represents a complete dismissal of the classroom that is part of the boeotian American art cirriculum. I see "We're From America" is a bombastic farewell middle finger through the lyrics obvious mockeries of insipid standards that record companies here are fine with abiding by. That, and also the idiot masses that are happy with having their brains synchronised to it as long as they can be rebels without a cause, ot even any idea what in the fuck they are singing along to.

With that said, another thing that I'd like to tack on is even though "The High End of Low" is layered with precursors to Mansons departure, another lyric sticks out to me. "Let's make sure the music is loud enough we won't even hear it end (you)". If you listen closely at the end of "Blank and White", you can clearly distinguish that from merely an exhale. Hell ETC is like taking the prophylactics off of AIDS patients who have been incarcerated for almost 20 years and allowing them to "paint new faces" onto incredulous youths because now they are in a new jusrisdiction. Sweet Dreams.

One last thing ..

Another interesting thing to note is that "The High End of Low" era emerged 15 years later after he had signed to Interscope back in 1993. I guess he just wanted to give them a proper goodbye?

[The Empirical Guy]

An interesting idea, although I think you're pushing things way to far on the Blank & White front... I just cannot hear that "you" for the life of me, and I think you're probably making it in to something to provide a cause.

As far as We're From America goes, though, yeah, what you said all makes sense... though as is usual, all in the glory of hindsight. Although, of course, there are no coincidences, sometimes we can sit back after the fact and see how nicely things all tied up together. I mean, although it can be placed in context now, I'm sure the song wasn't written with the intent of saying goodbye to his label.

[Cringeon]

I've always felt that THEOL was a bit of a response directly to the major lable situation he found himself stuck in. Again, this is just my thoughts but I think the desire to have complete control of art is something that MM pretty much realized he couldn't have since GAOG as long as he was tied to a major label and the whole dying industry. Marilyn Manson as an identiy was something that suits were involved in - even on stuff outside of music, and the only way for him to grow both in music and out, is to get Marilyn Manson out of the label and only into his hands.

I'm not sure the details on MM's contract deal with his old label, but the timing of everything seems like they owed the label one last album - and they could either try to put out something they pour their heart/time into only to have it get raped by the label, or give them something quick and dirty as the final release. I think the ideas and everything for whatever this new album will become had been growing from the moment MM and Twiggy got back together. THEOL I think was just the exorcism to free them to really put out their vision of where Marilyn Manson is heading.

And I say this a lot, it's not to say that there isn't anything good on THEOL, but as you stated with WFA, he's in recovery from America, from the labels to everything America worked Marilyn Manson up to represent. The expectations of "the god of fuck" becoming a parody of itself, everything the media wanted MM to be was pretty much set ablaze as the final middle finger. The media wanted an album like THEOL so everyone could be quick to write him/them off, and go back to turning every joke or criticism their way. Suicide Rock - the album to kill the band, only so it could be reborn on it's own two feet.

Not sure if that makes sense, but that's just how I feel about THEOL era as a whole.

EDIT: And I don't hear the Blank and White ending either, but even the phrase "won't even hear it end" does echo what I said above about THEOL being the Suicide Rock album.

[S.Hal0mega.B]

I've always felt that THEOL was a bit of a response directly to the major lable situation he found himself stuck in. Again, this is just my thoughts but I think the desire to have complete control of art is something that MM pretty much realized he couldn't have since GAOG as long as he was tied to a major label and the whole dying industry. Marilyn Manson as an identiy was something that suits were involved in - even on stuff outside of music, and the only way for him to grow both in music and out, is to get Marilyn Manson out of the label and only into his hands.

I'm not sure the details on MM's contract deal with his old label, but the timing of everything seems like they owed the label one last album - and they could either try to put out something they pour their heart/time into only to have it get raped by the label, or give them something quick and dirty as the final release. I think the ideas and everything for whatever this new album will become had been growing from the moment MM and Twiggy got back together. THEOL I think was just the exorcism to free them to really put out their vision of where Marilyn Manson is heading.

And I say this a lot, it's not to say that there isn't anything good on THEOL, but as you stated with WFA, he's in recovery from America, from the labels to everything America worked Marilyn Manson up to represent. The expectations of "the god of fuck" becoming a parody of itself, everything the media wanted MM to be was pretty much set ablaze as the final middle finger. The media wanted an album like THEOL so everyone could be quick to write him/them off, and go back to turning every joke or criticism their way. Suicide Rock - the album to kill the band, only so it could be reborn on it's own two feet.

Not sure if that makes sense, but that's just how I feel about THEOL era as a whole.

EDIT: And I don't hear the Blank and White ending either, but even the phrase "won't even hear it end" does echo what I said above about THEOL being the Suicide Rock album.

I fully agree with this, and you've made perfect sense.

[timoldbean]

In regards to releasing an album to owe the record label ... I've heard similar things before - can't remember from who but I do recall Dita Von Teese referring to EMDM as a contractual obligation he owed the company (or words similar to that).

Just can't buy into this at all, especially with THEOL - but I can see why others would see it like that. It does have a quick/dirty feel to it, but it certainly isn't the sort of thing any mainstream record label would ask for ... if Manson was to create an album to please the company, it would be more easily accessible like MA than THEOL, chiefly because of how unorthodox THEOL is.

A few examples - Devour comes to a dead stop as it's write in the middle of rocking out, song titles had to be censored ... a line from the lyrics had to be crudely bleeped out, the first single had 2 swears in the title making it nearly unpronounceable for the radio and unlistenable in it's censored form and there's a 10 minute song that drones on (great song, but can't see it being a casual fan favorite). There's a lot in the album that a large record company wouldn't like to handle, so I can't see much evidence that Manson created this fast for a quick and easy release for them to have fulfilled some sort of contract (a contract that we don't know the details of) and then be free of their restrictions.

THEOL is more about them using their frustrations of restrictions as fuel to create an album that's every bit Marilyn Manson in anger, despair and sarcasm than any. Amongst other things, it exposes and fights restriction by compromising the music - making it a fuck you to the record industry rather than a quick and easy fix to be free of a contract. The fight they must have put up with to get that album out must have been a good struggle ... I doubt he'd do that struggle if he wanted an easy out and if he didn't fully believe in what he's created.

[Cringeon]

I guess my point was not that they put out an album to PLEASE the label - but just to complete their contract. I don't think THEOL was about making it huge or being a smash hit. Again, this is just how I feel looking not only the era, but everything before and what's been happening since. I'm not trying to say he's some mastermind, but I think Twiggy personally becoming an indie artist, and seeing how the industry is changed, and even just to have more creative control - THEOL feels as a burning sacrifice to regain it all.

[Shangri-LIE]

^ True dat.

I still can't believe that no one can here "End You" at the end of Blank and White, however.

Edit - A few people have. They just haven't posted in this thread.

[The Empirical Guy]

I can hear it if I make myself hear it, but then I know I'm not actually hearing it. He's pronouncing it "en-daaa" with a long exhaled breath at the end of the word, don't let it fool you in to thinking there's subliminal messages or hidden lyrics.

[S.Hal0mega.B]

I can hear it if I make myself hear it, but then I know I'm not actually hearing it. He's pronouncing it "en-daaa" with a long exhaled breath at the end of the word, don't let it fool you in to thinking there's subliminal messages or hidden lyrics.

True that, but still, I'll process the sound through some of my top software, slow it down, enhance etc etc and pinpoint if there's anything there beyond simple imagination. I'll get back to you guys here with that.