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Thread: Are you left or right? Why?

  1. #1
    cold blows the wind Golden Eel's Avatar
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    Default Are you left or right? Why?

    This forum needs more real discussion, in my opinion.

    Are you left or right? Liberal, conservative, libertarian, socialist, communist, anarchist? Why?

    I have a feeling that most of you are pretty far left, but I wonder if some people in the woodworks around here might be of differing minds. This thread is for any general idea of what you think government and society should be, I suppose. Post whatever you think, but I'm kinda interested to hear if any of you have any real radical ideas.

    I'd pretty much say I'm a socialist, which means I'm hoping there are some libertarians on here who will want to change my mind. I think education and health care are human rights. I think the ultra-wealthy should be ultra-taxed in comparison to the poor and I think these funds should be spent on people who have less than you. I don't think we should have government owned grocery stores instead of food stamps. I agree with conservatives that many people on welfare are lazy and entitled, but I also agree there are plenty of people who need it. The people who need it should not have to go without because there are lazy assholes who squander their necessities. I think nations and borders should be abolished, and I think allowing huge cults of people to believe in fairy-tales should be strictly frowned upon by society (yeah, just had to bring religion into it.) However, I don't believe the government should hold any unnecessary power over it's people. As long as you are not directly harming another person, what you are doing should not be controlled by the government. This is where I disagree with many liberals. I should be able to smoke wherever I want, I should be able to smoke [i]what[/]ever I want, and I should be able to marry who I want. I should be able to get an abortion, just like I should be able to walk into a hospital and have the option to be humanely euthanized. I should be able to own as many small guns as I want, but I should be restricted from owning nuclear arms or missiles. I believe an I.Q. test should be instituted to vote or have over a certain amount of children. The higher your intelligence, the more you should be allowed to procreate.

    I probably missed a lot of stuff, though I'm sure I'll come up with it once I read some other replies.

    Oh, forgot to mention. While I think the government should stay out of individuals' lives as much as possible, I think large corporations that hold the power to collapse the economies of entire nations should have much more strict regulations. Banks and oil companies should be scrutinized constantly and be forced to pay massive fines for not following the rules.
    Last edited by Golden Eel; 04-29-2011 at 11:57 PM.
         

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  3. #2
    Amputated Limbo ThreeEyedGod's Avatar
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    uh oh

  4. #3
    cold blows the wind Golden Eel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeEyedGod View Post
    uh oh
    Don't worry, I'm much more open minded outside of religion. I have a libertarian buddy who I disagree with on many, many social and economical issues but I have no problem having a civil conversation with him. I'm just curious to hear the views of my fellow PMer's. Also, you can't deny that even if that thread created quite a few unhappy campers it still livened up the forum a little bit.

    Also, religion is welcome in this thread as well. I won't demean or anything if anyone believes, but I believe discussing some of the effects of religion on society is a perfectly reasonable subject. The last thread didn't really go so well, because I was basically arguing against the existence of gods and whatnot. Arguing about some of the effects religion has on the world is a total different discussion.
         

    and with just one faint glance back into the sea
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  6. #4
    I am another yourself. Dronepool's Avatar
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    Liberally Ambidextrous.


    Fuck politics.



  7. #5
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    I am a Liberal - in fact a card carrying member of the Liberal Democrats here in the UK. I am also a member of a union and supportive of union rights. However if I left it at that you would maybe assume I am a leftie - when in fact politics is not that black and White - which is a problem I find with American politics. Being interested in American politics I spend a lot of time reading and posting on news sites and come into contat with extreme elements both left and right and the one thing i see so constantly is there is one one way of seen g things, an assumption that to be left leaning you are soft on crime, soft on politics, pandering to all limp wristed ideals, or being on the right, you are anti gay, anti women rights, anti socialism. But as I have often argued, these people need to talk properly to one another because political affiliations aside if they got down to the nitty gritty of it, they would probably find their core principles are similar if not the same.

    I believe in human rights, the rule of law, and the rights of women to choose. I believe in marriage equality, not gay civil unions as they are separate but not equal. But at the same time I believe in keeping my family safe, that if someone commits murder they should get life, unless there are exceptional circumstances such as a woman who fights back after years of abuse. I also believe that there should be no mercy for child abusers - and that includes people who look at child abuse images - life, end of.

    My point being, I am a lefty mostly - believe in fairness and equality, that if we a truly in it together corporations should not be able to wriggle their way out of their taxes and the rich should not asking for tax breaks. I believe health care is a universal right - it should not be pandering to profits. I believe in freedom from tyranny but I also believe that the law is sometimes too inconsistent - for example too often I hear of someone getting 6-10 years for rape and yet someone who embezzles money gets 25-life - it's not right.

    Politics and our affiliations are not always as black and White as me saying I am a Lib Dem or a democrat or a Republican - and I wish others could see that too, that if we changed the political dialogue people would see at our core, our principles are the same and by assuming or labelling a left leaning person as a socialist, commie loving progressive in a derogatory term is nothing short of ignorant. Politics has become too divisive - the right have become too good at changing the meaning of left, progressive and liberal into something Joe McCarthy would be proud of labelling people he didn't agree with. In fact McCartyism has reached, in my opinion, a new high amongst American politics - it is ruining civil discourse.
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  9. #7
    Amputated Limbo ThreeEyedGod's Avatar
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    Hate the whole 'left, right, liberal, conservative' labels, because as Emma said it is never so black and white.

    If i played along I supposed I would say I tend to be more 'conservative' and often find myself agreeing with the 'right'.

  10. #8
    cold blows the wind Golden Eel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emma View Post
    I am a Liberal - in fact a card carrying member of the Liberal Democrats here in the UK. I am also a member of a union and supportive of union rights.
    Ah, yes unions. Forgot to mention that one in OP, but I agree completely that unions should exist. As I touched on, corporations are pure evil and can't be trusted to treat their employees fairly.

    However if I left it at that you would maybe assume I am a leftie - when in fact politics is not that black and White - which is a problem I find with American politics. Being interested in American politics I spend a lot of time reading and posting on news sites and come into contat with extreme elements both left and right and the one thing i see so constantly is there is one one way of seen g things, an assumption that to be left leaning you are soft on crime, soft on politics, pandering to all limp wristed ideals, or being on the right, you are anti gay, anti women rights, anti socialism. But as I have often argued, these people need to talk properly to one another because political affiliations aside if they got down to the nitty gritty of it, they would probably find their core principles are similar if not the same.
    I agree with all of this. I'd say I'm socialist, but I disagree with quite a few 'fundamental liberal' ideas. It's incredibly annoying to hear someone say they're liberal and then side with liberals on every issue because of that. I agree it is a HUGE problem in American politics, people just need a team to root for. And anything else the other team says is wrong.

    I believe in human rights, the rule of law, and the rights of women to choose. I believe in marriage equality, not gay civil unions as they are separate but not equal. But at the same time I believe in keeping my family safe, that if someone commits murder they should get life, unless there are exceptional circumstances such as a woman who fights back after years of abuse. I also believe that there should be no mercy for child abusers - and that includes people who look at child abuse images - life, end of.
    You think you should get life for looking at child pornography? Interesting. And what if a husband murders his wife after years of abuse from her? Should he get the same leeway as a woman if the roles were switched?

    My point being, I am a lefty mostly - believe in fairness and equality, that if we a truly in it together corporations should not be able to wriggle their way out of their taxes and the rich should not asking for tax breaks. I believe health care is a universal right - it should not be pandering to profits. I believe in freedom from tyranny but I also believe that the law is sometimes too inconsistent - for example too often I hear of someone getting 6-10 years for rape and yet someone who embezzles money gets 25-life - it's not right.

    Politics and our affiliations are not always as black and White as me saying I am a Lib Dem or a democrat or a Republican - and I wish others could see that too, that if we changed the political dialogue people would see at our core, our principles are the same and by assuming or labelling a left leaning person as a socialist, commie loving progressive in a derogatory term is nothing short of ignorant. Politics has become too divisive - the right have become too good at changing the meaning of left, progressive and liberal into something Joe McCarthy would be proud of labelling people he didn't agree with. In fact McCartyism has reached, in my opinion, a new high amongst American politics - it is ruining civil discourse.
    Well said. The fact that 'socialist' was thrown at Obama amazes me, and scares the shit out of Americans. I wish he was a socialist for Christ's sake.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThreeEyedGod View Post
    Hate the whole 'left, right, liberal, conservative' labels, because as Emma said it is never so black and white.

    If i played along I supposed I would say I tend to be more 'conservative' and often find myself agreeing with the 'right'.
    I didn't intend this to be a left vs right thread, I wanted to hear the specific issues and which way you lean with them. It would be pretty boring if people just came in and posted "I'm a democrat." and that's it lol.
         

    and with just one faint glance back into the sea
    the mollusk lingers with its wandering eye
      
      

  11. #9
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    I saw the title of this tread and found it had an interesting correlation to an earlier discussion I was having about statistics on curvature of the penis, which itself stemmed from playing Wii Bowling. Figure that one out.

    Anyway, I wouldn't say I'm either or, rather, a bit of both. I agree it's stupid to say you are left/ right and just follow them blindly no matter what. The impression I get it that that mentality is pronounced in the US, but it definitely still exists here, although the last state election saw major swings. Personally, I think politics is generally (not always) a crock of shit run by corrupt, self serving people, but my viewpoints are a mix of the two 'main' sides (conservative/ liberal). So, while I'm all in favour of abortions and think government funded basic healthcare should be standard, I take a hard line on other things. I'm not really in favour of the death penalty, but think there should be corporal punishment. Someone goes on a killing spree in the US, and they get a humane execution that's basically like going to sleep? No, cause them pain, fuck them up good and proper and make them understand first hand the pain that they've caused others.

    Another example would be the rooftop protesters here in Australian at the moment. For those of you overseas that may not know, Australia gets a lot of illegal immigrants coming from South East Asia and the Middle East that turn up little rickety boats floating towards the coastline. The Navy and Border Patrol pick most of them up, and take them to processing camps where they are kept while they are assessed to see if they can legitimately claim refugee status or if they would otherwise be allowed in to the country through the proper channels, paperwork is processed and so on. Obviously these camps are fenced to keep them in and stop them running off and becoming illegal immigrants on the run, but they are by no means prisons. They're allowed to move freely within the camps, get shelter and a bed and food, exercise yards and sporting equipment, tvs and video games, they probably get it better than many low-income Australian families. Yet it's not good enough for some of them. They complain that they're 'prisoners' and that they're not being processed through the system fast enough. Their solution? The riot, burning down the buildings given to them for shelter and climbing on to the roofs of the remaining buildings and refusing to come down until their case is processed.

    Now, the first and foremost flaw in this logic is, people who go on a violent riot when they're not given what they want is not really someone we want to consider for a visa in to the country. The Government's solution at the moment is to warn them that people who commit criminal acts under Australian law while in the detention centres could have their applications rejected and be deported. Woop-de-fucking-doo. Personally, if they want to light fires I think they should let them all burn, and if they're on the roofs then bring them down with bullets. Ingrates turn up here supposedly seeking refuge, we keep them safe while doing the necessary legal work and they act like rabid animals? Fuck them all, they're not people we want here: and by here I mean on Earth.

    So, I'm a bit of a bastard, but think we should have some nice things, too ^_^

    For the sake of the thread, I'm going to keep religion out of this discussion.
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  12. #10
    Ripper's Avatar
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    From my late teens I was always more left. Pity I hate leftists as much as I hate the right sometimes. I'd say these days I'm a nihilist when it comes to most things but especially so with politics.

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