The Ethics Of Suicide

[Christina]

I hate to jump into such a touchy subject, but I really have something to say about this.

With all aggression aside, especially towards you arch because you're entitled to think whatever you think and I'm not offended by it, but I've never understood people calling suicide selfish. To me the word "selfish" is used in a manner of describing ignorance. It's about someone that doesn't want to see the other side and the feelings of others, but when you're that down in the dumps, all you can see is the shit that has built up around you and when you're that low, it's hard to find help. It's a hole you're in and sometimes, no matter how bad you want out, you can't find the way. When you hurt, sometimes your feelings overpower your thoughts, especially any rational ones. When you feel alone, selfish is just another name to push you off that edge you're standing on.
I have never thought of the people I love that needed help and don't know how to get it as "selfish", much less those that I've lost to the pain in their lives. What I think is, "What in the world could I have done different for this person that was hurting this much that they had to take their own life?" Of course, guilt is part of the process of grieving. Then I remember some of the shit I have been through and all the times it could have been me that went over the edge. I begin to understand things that can be a thorn in your side that don't seem to go away. The only answer at the time of wanting to die is to end what's hurting you. Sometimes the things that hurt us seem like our own world, and what better way to end the pain in life then to just end the pain OF LIFE?

[Christina]

One more thing I'd like to add. If anyone here is feeling suicidal, I won't call you selfish!

This is my facebook:
http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1118929442

And this is a hotline you can call if you don't like me but still need a friend or just need to talk:
1-800-273-8255

I felt the need to post this because of it happening to a member we all knew of, I feel it hit just too close to home. If you wanna banned me for double posting go forit! I'll just aggravate S.D. until he let's me back in here! >:D

No, but in all seriousness, guys, it's not worth it. TALK!

[Allycat]

Christina, you're right. People who are feeling suicidal aren't being selfish. They're in the depths of a severe depression that they may have endured for years and that they feel they can't climb out of. Yes, there are treatments, and most people are helped by them, but there are a few who, no matter what, cannot obtain any relief.

[Enigma]

^ Thank you so much Christina and Allycat for that kind of words. I was starting to thing people had become crazy.

[MrPogo]

I see a fair few suicide notes in my line of work, and the most common theme is along the lines of "sorry, but you'll be better off without me". You get very few of the "woe is me, I can't go on any longer with this wallowing in self pity" type*.
It's rather an annecdotal analysis (and by someone with no psychological qualifications), but the majority of people who commit suicide seem to be in a state of mind where they think they're being the opposite of selfish; they can acknowledge they'll cause pain to their loved ones, but think in the long term that everyone will be better off without them.
That said, I don't think it's necessarily a bad idea to try and ram home the "suicide is selfish" message, as it may help prevent people from arriving at the conclusion that the world is better off without them.

*of course there's also the "escaping from debilitating disease" and "fuck you for driving me to this, I hope the guilt consumes you" catagories, but they're different debates really

[Hazekiah]

Just dropped in to see what's been up with everyone and wound up stumbling upon this thread.

Personally, emotionally, ethically, what-have-you...I have no problem whatsoever with this discussion existing here. I assure you all, I've participated in this very same discussion countless times, particularly in the past year. Honestly, I fully believe it's a conversation worth having and that everyone should have it someday, albeit ideally under different circumstances.

And I have no hard feelings at all about archdandydotcom's posts about it in any way at all. On the contrary, I'm glad he brought it up and thankful he was able to get it out, actually.

Much closer friends of Mark's went through the exact same feelings. It's all part of the process of grieving and coping, and I'd never begrudge anyone that. The pendulum swings wildly sometimes and I'm sure he'll balance out his feelings on the matter eventually if he hasn't already, just like everyone else involved has been trying to do themselves. It isn't an easy conversation to have, but it's still important to let it happen however it happens and in whatever form it takes.

All that having been said, I very much appreciate the decision to remove all this from the thread I started.

Can't thank you guys enough for that.

There were a lot of lovely comments about Mark from everyone in there and I didn't get the chance to speak at his memorial, so I personally told several of his friends, family, and loved ones about these forums and that specific thread so they could have the opportunity to see for themselves the heartfelt outpouring about their loss from everyone here. I even directly linked a couple of them to it myself.

While I've dealt with this enough in the past to be comfortable with it by now, I'm truly grateful for the efforts of S.D. and Emma to preserve the conversation while sparing his friends, family, and loved ones the added grief of having to see all this in there when I hadn't prepared them for it at all. I would've felt really bad and embarrassed about that otherwise.

As it is, though, I think you both did exactly the right thing and just wanted to thank you each, along with anyone else involved in the decision.

<3

A forum is a place for people to air their opinions and beliefs, which members do here regularly without a great need for intervention from staff members. Clearly archdandydotcom feels a certain way about this matter and some don't agree, however, on this occasion the posts pertaining to suicide ethics in a memorial topic have been moved to a separate discussion, where you're all more than welcome to continue debating.

Good idea. No problem with archdandydotcom raising the issue, even if I disagree, but it dones't seem right to be in a memorial thread.

I was looking at some articles on understanding suicide today and thought this was something interesting in a way to help others understand:

http://www.pattayadailynews.com/en/2...ommit-suicide/

Here's some help too:

Suicide Prevention:

http://www.save.org/
http://www.samaritans.org/
http://www.supportline.org.uk/problems/suicide.php

Coping after suicide:

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/Suicide/P...ementtips.aspx
http://www.cmha.ca/bins/content_page.asp?cid=3-101-103
http://www.ehow.com/how_10894_cope-after-loved.html
http://www.familyaware.org/coping-af...e-project.html

That's some quality fucking moderating there, guys. Seriously.

It really means the world to me to find this place and its people in such good hands.

Keep up the good work, everyone...hope you're all doing well.

:-*

[ThreeEyedGod]

suicide is totes gawth

[The Empirical Guy]

TEG, sometimes, just sometimes, it's nice to not make everything in to a joke.

[Emma]

TEG, sometimes, just sometimes, it's nice to not make everything in to a joke.

QFTT

[ThreeEyedGod]

guess that's true.

backlash ftw