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Thread: Speculum

  1. #11

    Join Date: 04.11.12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester View Post
    Bullshit, Manson sounded great from 94-02. 94-95 being his top form.
    Manson began using oxygen on stage during the tour in support for Smells Like Children in '95. There were a number of performances during that tour that were cancelled part of the way through because of his respiratory problems.

    He "sounds good" to you because you're viewing those old performances through the lens of nostalgia. The truth is that they were pretty bad all the same. Not as bad as latter day Manson, but there's a pretty obvious line to be drawn from "twentysomething vocalist who sings in short bursts because of respiratory ailments" to "fortysomething vocalist who barely sings at all because of respiratory ailments". angelynx's Spookhouse is full of reviews complaining about the quality of his performances on that tour.

    You're trying to white knight for a band leader who will never read your posts. Let's face it: Manson's vocals have never been the drawing attraction for his shows. I doubt he'd have performed any better last night had he been stone cold sober. He's a tired old man with a rubber lung.

    Seriously, watch that performance of "Smells Like Children" I linked to. Croaking, hacking vocals? Check. Gasps for breath? Check. The only difference is that he was young and athletic enough to move around more then.
    Last edited by The Overman; 04-12-2012 at 07:22 AM.

  2. #12
    Enigma's Avatar
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    I don't think he sounded bad vocally in the early years. It was just Manson stye, if you don't like that tone and that rusty voice then I don't get how can you listen to his albums. The problem is now he doesn't seem to be able to put on that show or deliever that energy to the crowd. I didn't like this last performance although Twiggy was amazing.

    Cause it breaks my heart that we live this way

  3. #13

    Join Date: 04.11.12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Enigma View Post
    I don't think he sounded bad vocally in the early years. It was just Manson stye, if you don't like that tone and that rusty voice then I don't get how can you listen to his albums.
    I don't mind his tone. My point is that Manson has basically never been able to go more than a few lines in his songs without gasping for breath. He has no breath control and never really has.

    Now, again, I love his music and his stage show and such. But that he reached this point is basically inevitable, and blaming it on drugs or anything else is basically a way to overlook the fact that he's old and that all vocalists have very limited lifespans.

    Rob Halford also sounds like a shittier version of his old self these days. Of course, even his 'new' old self is better than Manson's 'old' new self, but the point is that vocalists age, and poor vocalists age less gracefully than good ones.

  4. #14
    Koko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jester View Post
    Manson needs rehab. His shit performance had nothing to do with him being old and a bit overweight. His paralyzed exressionless face should give you the hint that whatever the fuck he was on, was the culrpit. Hell, he even looks gone in that pic with Cooper and slash.

    Yes it was a shit performance on a shit awards show, but goddamnit, stop defending him and such. If you fucking love Marilyn Manson so much, maybe as a community, you can start showing your support on him cleaning himself up. He will die, its another rock n roll tragedy waiting to happen.
    Whatever Manson chooses to do with his life is nobody’s business but his, and to some degree his family and friends, if they aren’t concerned then neither should someone who doesn’t know him personally and exactly what he does. I agree, it wasn’t the best performance, but it wasn’t as bad as you are making it out to be.

  5. #15

    Join Date: 03.08.12
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    Manson always sounded bad live and not doctored like DTTW and T.V releases. I first realized this while watching him sing Rock is Dead on some awards show. He was covered in mud and wore a coyboy hat I think and had a black G-String looking thing. I thought they forgot to "turn something on" with his mic or something since dead to the world sounded fantastic, his records sounded good. It was my first realization that his lyrical voice comes from doctoring.

    So people saying he sounds bad now?

    Anyway, what I find disappointing regardless of voice is his lack of energy on stage, his lack of "oomph" he always had. Again, I realized this when I went to a concert in 2009. It just seemed like was singing his songs just because. No disrespect for the man, but I think he lost his passion for what he does on stage but likes the money, or needs it. Maybe it is the after shows and parties he loves and not performing. This all started after releasing EMDM.

    He had this spark energy with GOAG tours in 2003. The spark he had is totally gone. You see a fizzle of it now and again of maybe 5% of the show. If that. Maybe it is the opposite. Maybe it was drugs that gave him that, and stopping them made him like this. As far as oxygen, it is not uncommon for people to use it and there is nothing wrong with using it.

    maybe he is a victim of his own words.

    "When all of your wishes are granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed"

  6. #16
    Seven's Avatar
    Join Date: 06.20.09
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overman View Post

    Now, again, I love his music and his stage show and such. But that he reached this point is basically inevitable, and blaming it on drugs or anything else is basically a way to overlook the fact that he's old and that all vocalists have very limited lifespans.

    Rob Halford also sounds like a shittier version of his old self these days. Of course, even his 'new' old self is better than Manson's 'old' new self, but the point is that vocalists age, and poor vocalists age less gracefully than good ones.
    It has nothing to do with age. Nothing. There are a fuckton of singers his age and older who are still brilliant. Often they sound better when they mature, not get worse.

  7. #17

    Join Date: 04.10.12
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    I think it's understandable why fans and former fans would be concerned with Manson's drug and/or alcohol intake. Nobody wants to see somebody they admire go down that road - which always ends the same way.

    It sort of becomes other people's business when they pay however much to see this guy live and instead get a lethargic drunk guy huffing and puffing on stage.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Overman View Post
    Manson began using oxygen on stage during the tour in support for Smells Like Children in '95. There were a number of performances during that tour that were cancelled part of the way through because of his respiratory problems.

    He "sounds good" to you because you're viewing those old performances through the lens of nostalgia. The truth is that they were pretty bad all the same. Not as bad as latter day Manson, but there's a pretty obvious line to be drawn from "twentysomething vocalist who sings in short bursts because of respiratory ailments" to "fortysomething vocalist who barely sings at all because of respiratory ailments". angelynx's Spookhouse is full of reviews complaining about the quality of his performances on that tour.

    You're trying to white knight for a band leader who will never read your posts. Let's face it: Manson's vocals have never been the drawing attraction for his shows. I doubt he'd have performed any better last night had he been stone cold sober. He's a tired old man with a rubber lung.

    Seriously, watch that performance of "Smells Like Children" I linked to. Croaking, hacking vocals? Check. Gasps for breath? Check. The only difference is that he was young and athletic enough to move around more then.
    Yeah, but back then he seemed like he was using the oxygen because he was actually being energetic, running around and screaming... like he was giving it 110%. Now he's using it because he's out of shape and overweight and you'd be lucky to see him give 10%. Age is not the reason he is the way he is now. He's not 70 years old. He's only in his 40's. There's plenty of artists his age and older still putting on excellent shows.

    Whatever vocal problems he had back then he more than made up for in performance and aggressive energy. Now it's just a chubby guy, drunk, stumbling and slurring while out of breath.

    It's a bummer because I am huge fan of this guy's work. But the horrible live shows and embarrassing interviews for the past 4-5 years have been disappointing to say the least.

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  9. #18
    Koko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atom View Post
    I think it's understandable why fans and former fans would be concerned with Manson's drug and/or alcohol intake. Nobody wants to see somebody they admire go down that road - which always ends the same way.

    It sort of becomes other people's business when they pay however much to see this guy live and instead get a lethargic drunk guy huffing and puffing on stage.
    I understand that, I donít want him to die anytime soon either, but if things with him were that bad, the people around him would be concerned and help him; he already said in an interview that his dad took him to rehab a few years ago, so they are definitely on track of whatís going on with his life. And fans donít exactly 100% know how he lives his life. As far as paying for seeing him live, Manson has always been very unpredictable, we all know that the show could suck, but thatís something that you have to think about before deciding to buy a ticket.

  10. #19
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    Join Date: 02.08.12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koko View Post
    I understand that, I don’t want him to die anytime soon either, but if things with him were that bad, the people around him would be concerned and help him; he already said in an interview that his dad took him to rehab a few years ago, so they are definitely on track of what’s going on with his life. And fans don’t exactly 100% know how he lives his life. .
    that's right.


  11. #20

    Join Date: 04.10.12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Koko View Post
    I understand that, I donít want him to die anytime soon either, but if things with him were that bad, the people around him would be concerned and help him; he already said in an interview that his dad took him to rehab a few years ago, so they are definitely on track of whatís going on with his life. And fans donít exactly 100% know how he lives his life. As far as paying for seeing him live, Manson has always been very unpredictable, we all know that the show could suck, but thatís something that you have to think about before deciding to buy a ticket.
    I agree. But didn't he end up not even bothering with it and leaving the rehab center? If he doesn't want to be helped then there's nothing friends or family can do. That's irrelevant though and is none of my business as I don't really like getting into someone's personal life like that.

    All I am basing my opinions off of is what I've seen of him, how far downhill he has gone, and the things he's said. I don't expect him to be the same performer he was in his 20's and 30's. But it seems like he's still trying to act like it.

    His performances have always been somewhat unpredictable but in a totally different way. If anything he has become predictable now. You know what songs you're going to hear, save from a few different ones thrown into the mix. And it's very likely he's going to be tired, out of shape, and struggling with his vocals. It's a shame because even in the past if he was struggling vocally he still had the energy and passion to back it up.

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