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Thread: BV and the Triptych - Crushing, cheating, changing/Creator, preserver, destroyer

  1. #1
    Scorpion's Avatar
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    Default BV and the Triptych - Crushing, cheating, changing/Creator, preserver, destroyer

    Does someone see a connection between those lines?
    I always thought since No Reflection came out that ''crushing, cheating, changing'' that it was just a random line, but since I heard ''Hey, cruel world'' I think there's a connection here.

    You see:
    HW - Creator - Changing
    MA - Preserver - Cheating
    ACSS - Destroyer - Crushing

    That's how I can connect them, and I'll explain.

    HW is the proccess of the beginning, the start of all. So he has to create and change, he tries to change the world.

    Then, in MA, he rises, reaches fame and success, and tries to preserve it, but then comes in the drugs and the fake illusions of a perfect world/person, and when he realizes that's not real, that the drugs are actually illusory, the 'cheating' fits in (as the drugs are cheating on him, by fooling him).

    On ACSS, he's already corrupted and it's a soulless rockstar, thinking only about himself and his rise. He basically acts like a beast, destroying everything on his way up.

    Another thing I noticed... in Hey, Cruel World he says ''Creator (HW), Preserver (MA), Destroyer (ACSS), ask which one I am'' and right away, at No Reflection, the order is reversed: ''Crushing (ACSS), cheating (MA), changing (HW)''. No idea why and how they can connect, but well, I guess it's something to think about.

    Maybe I'm digging something that doesn't exist, but I couldn't help myself on noticing that 3-3-3 coincidence.
    Maybe˛ I went too far, but I bet the ''creator, preserver, destroyer'' part does connect with the triptych, it is a really good coincidence to be just a coincidence.

    Alternative thoughts are welcome.

  2. #2
    Catholic Girls with UZIs johncraze's Avatar
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    Interesting interpretation, I never thought about it.

    If one thinks about it. "Hey, Cruel World" is the first track, and right afterwards comes No Reflection. Perhaps the first is an image of what took him to what he is today: the path of creating, cheating then destroying. This is his past, this is the triptych.

    Then when it gets to "No Reflection", is when he steps up from what his past was, and initiates a new cycle towards his future, a cycle that can't come to a closure like the one before it ( creation-preservation-destruction- the end). Because now the cycle Manson is aiming for is destruction-struggling-changing, seeing destruction now as the origin of a truely never ending cycle because change never ceases to be.

    I think this makes sense taking in account what he said about "wanting to transform" and not to be reborn. But this is just an interpretation as well, so this is just my two cents.

  3. #3

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    EMDM->THEOL->BV is a triptych about relationships. And it is backwards, just like the ACSS->MA->HW

    everyone see's me as crazy but I see it clear as day

  4. #4
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    BV is not tied to previous albums except that they all led up to this. MM has said BV is very much on a whole different level than EMDM and THEOL where as those albums were created as snapshots of that particular time. Yes, connections can be found in all albums because they are all about MM, but not directly or purposely tied to any larger story.

  5. #5
    Twitch & Shout VelvetAIDS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cringeon View Post
    BV is not tied to previous albums except that they all led up to this. MM has said BV is very much on a whole different level than EMDM and THEOL where as those albums were created as snapshots of that particular time. Yes, connections can be found in all albums because they are all about MM, but not directly or purposely tied to any larger story.
    Wasn't there an interview somewhere where he said BV was connected to the Triptych in some way?

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    ^NK said that this album is "The Father" of the triptych.

    He's also been presenting three different personas in his interviews lately. A babbling fool who makes jokes from start to finish, A ruthless outlaw who makes threats and insults and An insightful mentor who talks about life and transformation.

  7. #7
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    NK said it's the grandfather of the tripytch, but I don't recall MM saying that it's directly related to it. What he did say is that unlike EMDM, and THEOL is that istead of the purpose to try and make the listener feel what he did, he was going back to a more narative way of telling a story. I think I guess in that way you can draw similarities in their approach but with the triptych being a very specific body of work that together gives a very specific message I find it hard to see how that story would continue. It really would be the opposite of MM talking about returning to his reasons for making music since it would just be repeating himself. Of course, until the album is out and people can actually view Born Villain as a complete piece of work, there's no real way to connect it directly except for perhaps just sound and approach.

  8. #8
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    I think people read too much into things. There are things that can be broken down, or paralleled, but why not just allow yourselves to be entertained? Sometimes you just have to accept something in the most rudimentary form and experience it. The record hasn't even been released and there already several threads where people are trying dissect every little lyric, or screenshot, or image. Not to say that reading through some of these aren't interesting.
    OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM


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  10. #9
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    I don't think he's in the same mindset anymore to link current music to the triptych. Even back in those days he kinda made it up as he went along since there's no way he'd be thinking about HW in the ACSS era. I agree with Shangri-LIE in that you can often see similarities in style or phrasing, but that doesn't mean there's any connections present. Frankly I would prefer it if there weren't. There's an entirely different mindset, tone and meaning between those two trilogies and I feel both get sort of spoiled when you start mixing them.

  11. #10

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    Wow. This forum is way out of touch.

    He wanted to perform each album from the triptych in one off live performances. He made some photos with Dean Karr that recreated the vibe of Triptych era imagery. Hugh said that this album is the one fans have been waiting for. He said that he's back into a frame of mind of mind he was in back in the day. Twiggy compared this album to Mechanical Animals. NK said this album is The Father of the Triptych. Manson said that ACSS was the beginning of a spell and this album was it's completion. On Fleicher's Universe dude said it was like this album was a new beginning and recreation of the past.

    And somehow you guys cannot wrap your minds around a relationship between this album and the triptych.

    Have fun sticking out like philosophical sore thumbs but this album OBVIOUSLY bears a unity with those three records.

    ACSS MA & HW = Analyzing the world. Creating a story.

    GAOG EMDM & THEOL = Analyzing himself. Living out that story. Seriously. Coma White & Black. Rising and falling from fame. Working into Hollywood in order to destroy what he created and then destroy what he became a part of.

    BV = A decoder ring that unlocks the code and message of his career.

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