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Thread: BV and the Triptych - Crushing, cheating, changing/Creator, preserver, destroyer

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sans Agendum View Post
    And somehow you guys cannot wrap your minds around a relationship between this album and the triptych.
    Depends on what this relationship entails I guess. I just don't think the things that were on his mind during those three albums are much on his mind nowadays. Back then it was mostly about society, or his role or feelings in that society. Now it's more about himself and how he feels. Like I said, it's not because he feels he has the spark he has back then that there is somehow a deeper connection between these two timeframes. But in the case of Born Villain I might be wrong I guess because reading the lyrics I still have no idea what it is about.

  2. #12

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    ^Thanks for taking one sentence from what I wrote out of context and spinning it six ways from Sunday.

    In any case, Manson is a PART of society. Yes his work went from extroverted to introverted but it's not hard to tell that this recording is a bit of both.

    If you really want to know I'd say the album is about how no matter what your intentions are, your creations take on a life of their own and that Manson had an intention with his art but it went out of control due to misunderstandings and misinterpretations so he then had a conflict in his life because of it that he's finally coming to terms with. He's done nothing but break the same old ground trodden by all of history's past philosophers and his fanatics have completely missed the point.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sans Agendum View Post
    He wanted to perform each album from the triptych in one off live performances.
    Back in 2010 as celebration of the old albums, and the lineup at the time.

    He made some photos with Dean Karr that recreated the vibe of Triptych era imagery.
    Love these shots, but to me look very different than anything on MA or HW. I can see DK's style in the way he shoots, but definitely thought the images looked like new MM.

    Hugh said that this album is the one fans have been waiting for.
    I think Hugh speaks that fans who weren't fans of the GAOG-THEOL era would like BV. Not that he speaks for the concept of MM's album.

    He said that he's back into a frame of mind of mind he was in back in the day.
    Specifically, he said like when he first started music. So based on that, should we assume this album has some hidden connection to Portrait?

    Twiggy compared this album to Mechanical Animals.
    Twiggy was asked what it sounded like, and he said he didn't like comparing but he thought it sounded like a more punk rock MA. MM said THEOL had the same attitude of ACSS. Didn't really mean a purposeful connection panned out.

    NK said this album is The Father of the Triptych.
    His opinion, but again I think he meant to say this is big daddy MM. Not that it's a story connection.

    Manson said that ACSS was the beginning of a spell and this album was it's completion. On Fleicher's Universe dude said it was like this album was a new beginning and recreation of the past.
    Don't remember these quotes, but haven't watched that episode since it aired. I remember him talking about how they time traveled to create ACSS, but don't recall anything about a specific connection.

    And somehow you guys cannot wrap your minds around a relationship between this album and the triptych.
    A connection, yeah it has MM, Twiggy and Vrenna on the album who were on ACSS. Do I find any connection to the story of the triptych, no. I think people are confusing the mindset of how they make an album, or the way he writes lyrics as being similar to the style versus meaning they are directly connected. The Triptych is a very specific story that has a beginning and end. I don't really see how the story continues in the great scheme of it. Yes, it's all autobiographical, so technically everything MM has ever said is tied in that way but Born Villain isn't a response or follow up to those albums. It is it's own piece of art that represents MM being reborn not as the Triptych, but as the result of everything beginning, during and after.

  4. #14
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    All of Manson's albums are introspective really. It's just that what is being seen and described is different in each release. The scale of the subjects is seemingly larger on the triptych than on the last two albums, but GAOG is typically seen as a lesser album and it's scale is gigantic, dealing with war and art and the history of both. I think what is really going on is that people still haven't really figured out why they didn't like the last few albums. It's certainly clear that the majority if the reasons typically given are utter nonsense.

    Part of the problem is that most are convinced that they fully understand the triptych and that it has a specific story, despite how many contradictory statements Manson made during and after it's creation. One thing is for certain, we were never, ever given an official interpretation. What is generally accepted as the truth of it is entirely fan canonized speculation.

    The Manson style is consistently cryptic and the only reason to do anything cryptically is so that it will be figured out. So to anyone who likes to throw around phrases like "reading too much into things," fuck you, you're a dumbass.

    That said, I mostly agree with Brad's decoder ring analogy. It's one Great Work. If Manson had changed his views and such as much as people seem to think he would've started releasing his material under his birthname by now, because a cryptic and consistent message is what Marilyn Manson is all about.

  5. #15

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    There have been plenty of interviews where Manson has stated his belief that people are able to communicate with their past selves and that humans can send back messages to our past selves in an effort to redirect ourselves in order to become who we are meant to be. He stated in a radio interview not too long ago that Antichrist Superstar was a message sent back in time and that this album represents the source of that message. He even said "That's how we're looking at the overall concept as a band" or something to that effect. He's basically claiming he's become 'The Father' character that was spoken of in the past albums. That THIS album is actually the SOURCE of the Triptych. There is certainly a connection between this album and the Triptych. It was in one of the recent radio interviews. I'll try to find it.


    EDIT:
    Here's a picture taken by Evan titled "Time Travel does not have an Agent". It sort of looks a bit like the album art don't you think?





    I'll try to find more about Manson and his time travel ideas.



    I believe in dreams. I believe that every night on the planet everything that is, was and can be is dreamt. I believe that what happens in dreams is no different and no less important than what happens in the waking world. I believe that dreams are the closest thing present-day mankind has to time travel. I believe you can visit your past, present and future in dreams. I believe I’ve dreamt half of my life that hasn’t happened yet.

    …I dreamt I was the Antichrist, and I believe it.

    — Marilyn Manson, The Long Hard Road Out of Hell

    Here's an old post from some other message board that explains a bit more of this theory.

    If we recall from Manson's autobiography, he very briefly states that he believes that he/we may have intuitive dreams about the future. Either that, or, that we may actually dream the future into being. Whatever. At the same time, Twiggy stated that he and Manson had written the album, Antichrist Superstar, in the future and then went back into the past to record it or something like that. Then, ofcourse, there's the whole Feb. 14, 1997 date given specifically for the song Irresponsible Hate Anthem. Third, Manson used a clip from John Carpenter's film, Prince of Darkness, in a song. A feature of that movie is a transmission from the future projected into the mind of the protagonist warning her of what's to come. Finally, we have track 99, what is unmistakabely a message of some sort.

    I think it's impossible to say whether or not Manson actually believes that he intuitively recieved lyrics or ideas from the future, but it is undeniable that with regards to the Triptych, he atleast wants us to believe that the Antichrist Superstar communicates with Adam/the Worm. whoever the fuck it is. However, I'm not entirely sure that he is trying to communicate a warning, or trying to ensure that Adam continues on his path to becoming Omega and finally, the Antichrist Superstar:



    "This is what you deserve. this is what WE deserve/ This is something we have brought upon ourselves/ When you are suffering/ Know that I have betrayed you."
    another interesting statement that I stumbled upon which applies to the topic of this thread.

    His marriage to Dita led him to believe that he shouldn't be Marilyn Manson anymore. Dita certainly believed that there was a Brian Warner beneath Marilyn Manson, and I think she tried to get him to see that and leave the rock star-drug lifestyle behind and be "normal." I do believe Manson tried that. I believe that he loved Dita so much he truly tried to be a different person, but came to realize he was empty inside. He invested his whole life in creating this persona that when he looked underneath it he found... nothing. He became split between Marilyn Manson and Brian Warner, although he personally believes there's atleast two or three different versions of Marilyn Manson he shows to different people, I really believe that he says and believes that because he CAN'T bring himself to think of himself in terms of Brian Warner/Marilyn Manson. He can ONLY think of himself as Marilyn Manson, so he further complicates things for himself by creating sub-personas of Marilyn Manson to show to different people. In reality he has only two identities, but he considers himself to have atleast three. When he tried to seperate his identities and divorce himself from his persona he was faced with the emptiness of Brian Warner, a vaccuum of infinite space. Cutting himself off from Marilyn Manson, he lost all creativity; couldn't write, couldn't sing, maybe even couldn't paint. Dita ofcourse wouldn't begin to understand the true problem, and Manson wouldn't seek any help because he'd always believed himself to be in control and would NEVER do anything to relinquish that. So his marriage fell apart and that just made things worse.
    Last edited by Sans Agendum; 04-21-2012 at 04:38 AM.

  6. #16
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    Great research, really interesting to read. /\

  7. #17
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    His marriage to Dita led him to believe that he shouldn't be Marilyn Manson anymore. Dita certainly believed that there was a Brian Warner beneath Marilyn Manson, and I think she tried to get him to see that and leave the rock star-drug lifestyle behind and be "normal." I do believe Manson tried that. I believe that he loved Dita so much he truly tried to be a different person, but came to realize he was empty inside. He invested his whole life in creating this persona that when he looked underneath it he found... nothing. He became split between Marilyn Manson and Brian Warner, although he personally believes there's atleast two or three different versions of Marilyn Manson he shows to different people, I really believe that he says and believes that because he CAN'T bring himself to think of himself in terms of Brian Warner/Marilyn Manson. He can ONLY think of himself as Marilyn Manson, so he further complicates things for himself by creating sub-personas of Marilyn Manson to show to different people. In reality he has only two identities, but he considers himself to have atleast three. When he tried to seperate his identities and divorce himself from his persona he was faced with the emptiness of Brian Warner, a vaccuum of infinite space. Cutting himself off from Marilyn Manson, he lost all creativity; couldn't write, couldn't sing, maybe even couldn't paint. Dita ofcourse wouldn't begin to understand the true problem, and Manson wouldn't seek any help because he'd always believed himself to be in control and would NEVER do anything to relinquish that. So his marriage fell apart and that just made things worse.
    Very well said Sans Agendum.This paragraph summerises what the song no reflection is about.If you wanna more elaboration from my side just let me know.

    thanks,


  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sans Agendum View Post
    Wow. This forum is way out of touch.

    He wanted to perform each album from the triptych in one off live performances. He made some photos with Dean Karr that recreated the vibe of Triptych era imagery. Hugh said that this album is the one fans have been waiting for. He said that he's back into a frame of mind of mind he was in back in the day. Twiggy compared this album to Mechanical Animals. NK said this album is The Father of the Triptych. Manson said that ACSS was the beginning of a spell and this album was it's completion. On Fleicher's Universe dude said it was like this album was a new beginning and recreation of the past.

    And somehow you guys cannot wrap your minds around a relationship between this album and the triptych.

    Have fun sticking out like philosophical sore thumbs but this album OBVIOUSLY bears a unity with those three records.

    ACSS MA & HW = Analyzing the world. Creating a story.

    GAOG EMDM & THEOL = Analyzing himself. Living out that story. Seriously. Coma White & Black. Rising and falling from fame. Working into Hollywood in order to destroy what he created and then destroy what he became a part of.

    BV = A decoder ring that unlocks the code and message of his career.
    This makes SO much sense. I agree

  9. #19

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    I also tried to find the quote where he says he prefers when the listener comes up with their own interpretations of his music and it does not mean that it is wrong because it is what the listener believes.

    Myself I believe that BV->THEOL->EMDM is a full story. different than the original triptych, but when I listen to it. or what I can from BV I can feel it. It is about him, his emotions how he deals with things. I wish I could find that quote but the search feature on MQ buggy as fuck

  10. #20
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    Can't believe that manson believes in that shit.I thought he was an atheist A LA Richard Dawkins style,but it appears to me that he believes in deja vu and past and next lives and souls and all of that shit.


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