Lucifer as a symbolic role model.

[Justin Fenrir]

This person does a good enough job of explaining something so I don't have to. And if you're stepping in here to troll, kindly find yourself a nice cactus to shove up your arsehole. It's okay to disagree - just don't disintegrate discussion into MansonUSA/Babalon-like stupidity.

"I've had a lot of experience with the Bible, having gone to religious schools until I attended a public University. That said, I've thought a lot about Lucifer and his role in Christian mythology, and he really gets a bad rap.

First of all, the visual depictions of the pointy-haired devilish demon creatures torturing humans were entirely the conceptions of artists and writers centuries ago, such as Dante.

Lucifer was an angel who disagreed with God. His only real crime was challenging God's authority and supposed omniscience. For this, he was cast out of heaven along with other angels who agreed with him.

If you read the Bible closely, Lucifer's only actual behavior is to influence people to think for themselves and challenge what God tells them to do. He reminds them that they are not slaves to God's demands, and that they have free will. Many of the mentions of "Satan" in the Bible talk about him 'behind his back" if you will, and are not actual appearances by Lucifer himself.

This FB post makes a very good point inasmuch as the Serpent in the Garden (as Lucifer) only pointed out to Eve that she had free will, and to eat the fruit would mean she would actually become aware of her surroundings in stead of being a mindless drone. Eve had a choice.

This is what true Satanists are about, the worship of humanity and free will. They celebrate being human and everything it has to offer, whether it be intelligence, sexuality, independence, etc.

Personally, I'd much rather get behind a deity which encouraged me to think and make my own choices, rather than one that demands I follow his orders and acts like a three-year-old when I don't comply.

I really believe that Lucifer is supposed to be a mythological embodiment of that contradiction which so annoys me in Christianity: the reconciliation between free will and obeying God. "If your logic center kicks in and starts to question what the church tells you, that's 'Satan'! Satan is the one in the Bible who tells people to think for themselves. Sure you have free will, as long as it doesn't go against what we tell you to do." Barf."

- rainbowf00, reddit.com

And I posted this in this section in particular to vent against the stupidity of the masses who flock to Judeo-Christian values.

[Abbeyjade]

So safe to say you guys are satanists then? (Laveyan)

[Mi-CroMartie]

hope this helps..

[Justin Fenrir]

So safe to say you guys are satanists then? (Laveyan)

Pretty typical response from someone with a username such as "mansons_bitch." Who is this "we"?

I resonate with LaVey's philosophy, but the discussion at hand is upholding Lucifer as a role model for the virtues exemplified in the above quote and picture, as pure metaphors or symbols. Anybody with half a brain realizes that Christianity is bullshit and that there is no such thing as God, but the very elements of Christianity still exist within the human animal - such as his need to deny carnal pleasures or uphold abstinence as a some sort of sick holy virtue.

However amongst the sheep are those who are not trapped in slave morality nor conformist psychological traps of going along with whatever you are told to do. God, in the above quote and picture, is but a metaphor, as is Lucifer and his group of rebellious angels. Most Marilyn Manson fans, through their connection with Manson's own ideas on life, understand that Christianity is a sick disease upon the world, but my point in this thread is that the religion is not the core problem - rather the repetitive patters of Judeo-Christian like philosophies. People are more content with doing as they are told, instead of questioning the established order, or looking at denying true desires as virtuous, instead of faggotry and lame.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exWUeQ53ICg

hope this helps..

I'm not going to discuss Satanism nor the Church of Satan on this thread because most of the participants will not understand what the religion is, however Shreck and Zeena, for the sake of conversation, I would like to add, are not members of the Church of Satan and are not Satanists.

If people could be kind enough to focus on the topic at hand, which is Lucifer as a symbolic role model.

[Abbeyjade]

Yeah mate i understand you want to stick to the topic at hand but it was just a question, that was relatable to yours.
No need to get nasty about it. I also completely agree with what you are saying, just wish you could use a little more common courtesy. Sorry for any inconveniences.

[Justin Fenrir]

Yeah mate i understand you want to stick to the topic at hand but it was just a question, that was relatable to yours.
No need to get nasty about it. I also completely agree with what you are saying, just wish you could use a little more common courtesy. Sorry for any inconveniences.

My apologies. A sudden rush of idiots have decided to join this forum to bring it down with immature humor, I might have been a bit prejudgemental based on your username. But yes, personally I do identify as a Satanist - but I also identify as a person with black hair, music enthusiast, painter, writer, etc.

I'm just more interested in hearing what people have to say of Lucifer as a positive role model based on his role in Christian mythology.

[Abbeyjade]

No problem at all, i understand how frustrating it is when people act like that.
I understand the username abuse aswell haha, one of those things that seemed like a good idea at the time.
I also identify myself as a satanist. I relate to certain parts of other religions but satanism is what is most relative to me.
Thanks for the apology though.

[Justin Fenrir]

I think at face value, most rational people can identify with Satanism because one of the most common phrases people say after reading The Satanic Bible is, "this is common sense, I agree with it." But within deeper layers of the materialistic and carnal philosophy, people start to realize that it truly is a celebration of the flesh and the animalistic celebration of life, and it can turn people away at that point.

However, as for Lucifer as a literary figure, I think a lot of people can relate to him and see him as a role model. Here is a person who doesn't sugarcoat things for you, holds no promises, but frees you (metaphorically speaking) from the ball and chain of "Xtianity."

[Dv5]

This isn't in the context of the thread but I've always found it amusing those who hail Satan yet denounce God's existence. I don't have anything else to add to this thread to be honest. I just find anything such as sorcery, worship of any kind, and the attempted personification of mythological literary characters to be silly. It's not a lack of knowledge about this subject, as I've dated a Pentecostal Satanist before, but an apathy towards even caring to engage people on the subject as I find it daft and pointless.

[Whisky And Speed]

Hi fav,

This topic is quite intresting to say at least and I promise you a constructive input.

I'm an atheist and don't believe in the literal existance of any god, devil, or angels.However, I agree with anton lavey on his position and opinion about satan.Satan in a symbol to the quest for knowlege , animal instincts,wild desires and rebelation against conforminty.I wish that there was a true literal satan to worship.If there was a real one I would like to be in the front of his army to fight this God who thought that he created a being that can think and choose then he tortures him in an everlasting hell for his choises.If there was one I would have served him in exchange with granting all my wishes to be true like what faust did , he sold his soul to satan in exchange with earthly pleasures.However, sadly enough satan in my opinion at least is a metaphor for us humans and our wildest inner minds and innermost desires.
There is a contadiction betwee a god who claims that he loves you and the whole human race yet when you don't choose him according to your mind which he did aboslutly created he tortures you in hell with satan.Btw, god created satan and gave him freedom and gave him a mind to think so why the hell to damn him and exterminate him out of heaven????.Therefore, the whole concept of a loving god and a creator god who gives you freedom yet tortures you for any choice doesn't please him is totally delusional.i have no idea how people keep faith despite all of these contradictions.

@favenris,forgive me my ignorance but I want to ask are you a theistic or laveyan satanist.

Hail satan .