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Thread: 'The Gardener'

  1. #11
    Not man enough to b human Manson15Marilyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brian219 View Post
    I agree with Dope Devil.

    I also stick by my comparison to Learning To Swim (off the Lunch Box demo tape for anyone who doesn't bother with the ancient stuff.)



    He's not fish enough to be a fish
    but he's learning to swim
    and trying to f-f-f-feign it.

    Predates American Psycho, btw.
    That's actually not a bad analogy...
    I am your vulture, your immoral sculpture, mirrorman who understands. I know you. I am you, your fantasy, reality.

    Don't be surprised I can look you in the eye. It's hard to take you serious when you take me inside.

    How the fuck are we supposed to know when I'm a monster in the way you refuse to die? How the fuck are we supposed to know if we're in love or if we're in pain?
    "Are we in love or are we in pain?"

  2. #12
    kleiner352's Avatar
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    I just think it's a relationship song and about how, as he's said in plenty of interviews, he often falls in love with an idea of someone or an image he has of them in their head, and they never live up to it. Hence the "she and every she is doomed to be your idea of her". In fact it's pretty obviously largely about Evan. Someone earlier I think quoted her and the whole "needed to grow" comment. She was drastically younger than him, hence the "even though you were supposed to be done growing, she is still growing" and the "your book wasn't burned, it was never written" lines. I think the "don't ever meet their friends" thing connects to how there's the old saying about how you can judge someone by the company they keep, and he realizes how stupid or hollow someone is by their friends.

    /notthatcomplicated
    Kleiner352 liked this post

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  3. #13
    Elizabeth Casto's Avatar
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    im still confused about how a book fits into the song.

  4. #14
    The Wax Gentleman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Casto View Post
    im still confused about how a book fits into the song.
    You're a book, every page is written in words I cannot read. So I burn, gotta burn, gotta burn it.
    -Lay Down Your Goddamn Arms


    I think these two lines tie together. I think he's saying that people aren't trying to destroy you, or burn the book that tells you who you are, because if you are faking who you are, your book isn't written yet. Something like that.

    And as far as this song tying into the Triptych, the Triptych was amazing, but it's finished. Obviously some lyrics will be the same, but it's a triptych. That implies the number three.
    I do think, however, that Manson is always making trilogies focusing on different concepts;
    Growing Up, Creativity
    Lunchboxes and Chok'lit Cows, Portrait, Smells Like Children
    The Triptych
    Duh.
    Art
    The Golden Age of Grotesque, Phantasmagoria, The Celebritarian Corporation
    Humanity
    Eat Me Drink Me, THEOL, Born Villain

  5. #15
    Elizabeth Casto's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wax Gentleman View Post
    You're a book, every page is written in words I cannot read. So I burn, gotta burn, gotta burn it.
    -Lay Down Your Goddamn Arms


    I think these two lines tie together. I think he's saying that people aren't trying to destroy you, or burn the book that tells you who you are, because if you are faking who you are, your book isn't written yet. Something like that.

    And as far as this song tying into the Triptych, the Triptych was amazing, but it's finished. Obviously some lyrics will be the same, but it's a triptych. That implies the number three.
    I do think, however, that Manson is always making trilogies focusing on different concepts;
    Growing Up, Creativity
    Lunchboxes and Chok'lit Cows, Portrait, Smells Like Children
    The Triptych
    Duh.
    Art
    The Golden Age of Grotesque, Phantasmagoria, The Celebritarian Corporation
    Humanity
    Eat Me Drink Me, THEOL, Born Villain
    this makes the most sense.

  6. #16
    YoureAlreadyHere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MisanthroPope View Post
    Nothing really to add but I assumed Manson lifted the "I'm trying to fit in" part from American Psycho.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vBpcSEdcRc
    I can see this being reinstated by the Taking Heads' song, "Psycho Killer" (if Manson was inspired by this song), which featured the "Fa" sound long before The Gardener was ever conceived.

    Last edited by YoureAlreadyHere; 02-07-2014 at 12:18 PM. Reason: forgot video
    --------------------------------

    Don't tell me what to do.

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  8. #17
    Fast Food Nude. Whisky And Speed's Avatar
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    @
    YoureAlreadyHere

    That's a good point really and could be a good question for Manson if any one had the opportunity to ask him that question some day. Were you Mr. Manson influenced by the talking heads at some point especially by the song psycho killers?. BTW, I like this song.

    FUCK, I miss my lovely LIKE button already !.


  9. #18
    YoureAlreadyHere's Avatar
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    ^ thank you for the like! It always feels good to be acknowledged :P
    --------------------------------

    Don't tell me what to do.

  10. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by dopedevil73 View Post
    This song always reminded me of Mechanical Animals. Not the music but the story behind Mechanical Animals. In MA, the story was that he was an alien trying to adapt to this world.
    The Gardener shares a close relationship with Manson's lifelong obsession over facsimile personalities and assumed identity. Regarding The Triptych, consider that during Mechanical Animals, "we're all stars", and we see Manson fighting with duplicates of himself in The Dope Show. He also says "This isn't me, I'm not mechanical", whilst reflecting upon the people he sees as "mechanical animals" (themselves only replicas of something organic).
    Everything is duplicated, as he claims during Holy Wood; "You're just a copy of an imitation".

    I found an interesting piece of Shakespeare that correlates with this song. During Othello, Iago makes the following statement:-

    "Our bodies are our gardens, to the which our wills are gardeners. So that if we will plant nettles or sow lettuce, set hyssop and weed up thyme, supply it with one gender of herbs or distract it with many—either to have it sterile with idleness, or manured with industry—why, the power and corrigible authority of this lies in our wills. If the balance of our lives had not one scale of reason to poise another of sensuality, the blood and baseness of our natures would conduct us to most prepost'rous conclusions. But we have reason to cool our raging motions, our carnal stings, our unbitted lusts. Whereof I take this that you call love to be a sect or scion."

    Consider the description of willpower as being a gardener, and the abandon of reason - No Reason - the inspiration for debauchery. I have discussed before how throughout Born Villain the theological 'garden' of Eden is perhaps Manson's scenery, and the behaviour of man his study. Given that Adam's rib created Eve, we can attribute "although you are supposed to be done growing, she is still growing", to the development of Adam and Eve within the garden, and god's 'gift' of free will as the catalyst for their expulsion from paradise. This - and the underpinning Shakespearean tragedy - is supported directly by the bloodline of Adam and Eve recognised in Children Of Cain, and perhaps the notion of willpower and the 'Garden' continuously causing man's downfall; "breaking the same old ground".
    "the Serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which
    the LORD god had made
    "

    m e m e n t o m o r i . p o s t m o r t e m


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