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Thread: Born Villain: The Grandest Concept Record of All

  1. #11
    Not man enough to b human Manson15Marilyn's Avatar
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    Well, he calls it that because he wrote less lyrics for the album--making it more abstract--so the listener can feel more when listening to it. He's said in the past he always felt like he had to write a lot of words, and that this is the first time he's repeated verses so many times. So, artistically, its a greater concept because its more open than it was in the past; its less limited.

    Anyways, I've been thinking a lot about his use of modern-day technological terms. You know, lines like:

    I forget what I saw before and after that day. I’d trade all I was worth to make myself into the handsomest gun and put the diamond bullet into your 404 ERROR face.
    (Note 'ERROR' is in all caps).

    And from the same song, it kind of has to do with technology:
    My re-built/re-mastered heart is smashed into its faces and its face is confused
    And lines like:

    Do you always have to hire actors, to play the devils that talk me out of my sui-sites?

    You’re just a ring tone, that happens when you get sick enough to call the one with bullet holes for eyes.
    It all kind of reminds me of the GAG era with lines from Doppelherz like:

    I'm a VCR, a funeral of dead memory waste. You can see it on my face.
    You are recognizable, as just another part in a vast machine.
    I want downloadable suicide. I want everything when I want it and I want it now ... I want everything before I want it and I already wanted it so I don't want it anymore ... I want a newer version ... Version I don't know. Version I don't point know. Version I point the gun at me 0 ... Version I point the gun at me.0
    Some of which became lines on songs on the album:

    Slutgarden:

    I'm a VCR funeral, a definite waste. My smile's a chainlink fence, that I have put up. I love the enemy, my love is the enemy. They say they don't want fame, but they get famous when we fuck.
    Vodevil:

    VIP ADD TRD violent shiny hate crime. "Total Requested Dead." It's version point(less) downloadable suicide. The only ones left standing are the ones not demanding. This isn't a show, this is my fucking life. I'm not ashamed you're entertained, but I'm not a puppet; I am a grenade.
    I don't think the references on the new album are entirely connected. But its interesting to explore the meanings of these things.

    Any thoughts about these kinds of references?
    I am your vulture, your immoral sculpture, mirrorman who understands. I know you. I am you, your fantasy, reality.

    Don't be surprised I can look you in the eye. It's hard to take you serious when you take me inside.

    How the fuck are we supposed to know when I'm a monster in the way you refuse to die? How the fuck are we supposed to know if we're in love or if we're in pain?
    "Are we in love or are we in pain?"

  2. #12
    Fav's Avatar
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    Wow, I have to say - this is one of the best interpretations I've read in a very long time. I never considered many of the things you posted, so thank you very much for taking your time to share this with the rest of us.

  3. #13
    A Better Messiah's Avatar
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    I think the "I forgot what I saw before and after that day" could likely refer to the song "15" on The High End Of Low. It's just a speculation, but considering the nature and rebirth themes in that song, it just works so perfectly up here. *taps on forehead

  4. #14
    Reprobare marcam. brian219's Avatar
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    He called it the "grandest concept record" and he said: "I thought ‘You’re So Vain’ would make the perfect statement because the record isn’t about anyone else. It’s about me." So I think calling it "grand" is calling himself grand and is just a vain statement that's speaks to the cockiness of the album, which is it's strength. It's grand like a peacock.

  5. #15
    Not man enough to b human Manson15Marilyn's Avatar
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    So, a few more thoughts...

    In No Reflection, the first few lines
    Crushing
    Cheating
    Changing
    I've been thinking that these all are connected to attributes of a villain. Like he said, a villain has to break the rules (cheating) in order to change anything (changing). And crushing is also part of it because destruction is also a form of creation in that it causes change, to put it simply.

    In The Gardener, the line
    You never wanted to share your concept of your creation with any other gods or worshipers
    I've been thinking about his belief that everyone is their own god, so just anybody else are other gods. I'm thinking that his creation speaks of his music, but maybe it could also be about anything else artistic he creates? And I'm thinking the worshipers could be people who idolise others and model themselves and their lives after them instead of thinking for themselves. But I also think it could mean submissive people, or perhaps people who don't have control of their own fate.

    Finally, I've been thinking about "someone else's angels" and whether or not it could be the "square-halo angels" or connected to them in some way.

    Quote Originally Posted by brian219 View Post
    He called it the "grandest concept record" and he said: "I thought ‘You’re So Vain’ would make the perfect statement because the record isn’t about anyone else. It’s about me." So I think calling it "grand" is calling himself grand and is just a vain statement that's speaks to the cockiness of the album, which is it's strength. It's grand like a peacock.
    I still think its because its the most vague, or abstract, album because of his comments about how in the past he always felt like he had to write a lot of words. But I can see where you're coming from, he has talked a lot about the album being an implied thread and it being a peacock of a record.
    I am your vulture, your immoral sculpture, mirrorman who understands. I know you. I am you, your fantasy, reality.

    Don't be surprised I can look you in the eye. It's hard to take you serious when you take me inside.

    How the fuck are we supposed to know when I'm a monster in the way you refuse to die? How the fuck are we supposed to know if we're in love or if we're in pain?
    "Are we in love or are we in pain?"

  6. #16

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    I think the album is pretty autobiographical.

    Hey cruel world and no reflection being about being young and having no hindsight. Pistol whipped could be about his earlier relationships with women. Overneath about him coming into his own. SloMoTion could be about becoming famous and having the spotlight on him. The Gardener, flowers of Evil and Children of Cain could be about his influence on his fans. Disengaged could be about him leaving the spotlight or his marriage ending. Lay down your god damn arms and Murderers could be about him leaving a major label. Born Villain and Breaking the Same Old Ground could be about him rediscovering himself.

  7. #17
    Not man enough to b human Manson15Marilyn's Avatar
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    I don't think its just the "I am among no one" line that connects Hey, Cruel World to Rapeture. They both seem to share pretty much the exact same concept.

    Originally Posted by Marilyn Manson

    Rapeture:


    Christianity

    Manufactures

    Yesterdays

    Killers

    Brave Now World. Don’t ever believe what you read, especially if you are illiterate. Art will be the burning churches, burning beds, burning witches, burning bridges, burning Cadillacs, burning forests, burning flags, and the burning human remains that are the evidence of the burned books, filled with stories of our razor and rope burns.

    But we will not be the ashes. We will not be cremated, we will cauterize our wounds. We never wanted our wings anyway.
    We are more than the flightless creatures, that are always expected to rise from the bonfire. These are barbecues for trembling, idiot arsons who pretend to be America’s Vatican in whatever ‘ism’ is easiest to swallow. After the horrid blowing jobs, they expect us to fight against each other to obtain the security of willing slaves.

    We do not walk among them. I am among no one.

    Marilyn Manson
    I am your vulture, your immoral sculpture, mirrorman who understands. I know you. I am you, your fantasy, reality.

    Don't be surprised I can look you in the eye. It's hard to take you serious when you take me inside.

    How the fuck are we supposed to know when I'm a monster in the way you refuse to die? How the fuck are we supposed to know if we're in love or if we're in pain?
    "Are we in love or are we in pain?"

  8. #18
    Spawning Forth The Snake spaceSuicide's Avatar
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    Antichrist Superstar, Mechanical Animals, Holy Wood > Born Villain

    Born Villain has a concept? Perhaps but when I think of concept albums I think of albums with stories and all the songs and lyrics intertwine to make the story. Since when is BV consist of such a thing?
    I use words sharp as a sword

  9. #19
    Strange & Unusual Sinner Halo Infinity's Avatar
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    For as long as I'm going to live, I don't think I'd even feel right challenging Antichrist Superstar with another Marilyn Manson album, and even if I were to do such a thing, perhaps Holy Wood would be the only exception in regards to sound, as it's part of the Triptych, and that it still seems to be the closest he's ever come to remaking Antichrist Superstar, but in a slightly different style, with a very similar image. I'm also convinced that all Marilyn Manson albums are concept albums. It seems that he has had a story to tell even long before Portrait of an American Family came out, and has been telling that story ever since. This isn't to say it's all the same story, but he has created multiple stories with in his bodies of work.

  10. #20
    OmegasTits's Avatar
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    The Golden Age of Grotesque would have to be excluded, I don't see a character or a story within that album. Other albums, yes, bt EMDM, THEOL, and BV don't count because the character is obviously himself, and the stories are based his personal life.

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