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Thread: Departure and Return of Twiggy - Your feelings.

  1. #31

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    Definitely, it is also really hard to gauge any guitarists true ability when playing Marilyn Manson songs unless they are doing a real bad job (like Zim Zum, even though he is my favorite MM guitarist) - there are only slight discrepancies between styles that you can notice, not their true ability as musicians because MM songs aren't 'flashy' guitar songs at all. I think what people are actually debating there, without really knowing, are his choice of tones and the sonic characteristics of his gear.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Empirical Guy View Post
    When people talk about the whole guitar or bass thing, just remember that on ACSS, MA and HW a good chunk of the guitars you hear on each album is actually Twiggy playing.
    So? That doesn't mean he is a good live guitarist. Which he isn't, in my humble opinion. I definitely liked him more as a live bass player. Sure he can compose some cool tunes but you have to admit that studio is very different than live. No contest. To me the whole guitar / backup vocal thing (and this is just speculation) seems like it's really a case of "Manson, if you want me back in the band and want me to stay, then I want to play guitar and do back up vocals live. You wouldn't let me do it after Holy Wood and that's part of the reason why I left in the first place. Plus I wanted to look like a dork, take a break, and also grow facial hair." Perhaps not, though the guy is so terrible as a live guitarist and singer that one must ask the question, "Why would Manson approve of that?" Because they are best friends? Because Twiggy has been in the band the longest? To grant his wishes to make him happy so he will stay and "save the band?" If those are the only reasons then I think that's terrible.

    To try and add something kind of positive to the whole change, the novelty of him doing backup vocals and guitar is kind of neato. At least at first it was. Plus he looks like he has had a lot of fun doing it. Does that mean he should play those live roles in the Manson band? Not really! Good, let him play guitar in the studio, let him compose, but leave it up to the professionals with actual talent to pull it off live. If not and Twiggy is going to continue to play those live roles, then we can only hope that he will get better as he goes along (sadly at the expense of others who pay good money.)

  3. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adonai View Post
    So? That doesn't mean he is a good live guitarist. Which he isn't, in my humble opinion. I definitely liked him more as a live bass player. Sure he can compose some cool tunes but you have to admit that studio is very different than live. No contest. To me the whole guitar / backup vocal thing (and this is just speculation) seems like it's really a case of "Manson, if you want me back in the band and want me to stay, then I want to play guitar and do back up vocals live. You wouldn't let me do it after Holy Wood and that's part of the reason why I left in the first place. Plus I wanted to look like a dork, take a break, and also grow facial hair." Perhaps not, though the guy is so terrible as a live guitarist and singer that one must ask the question, "Why would Manson approve of that?" Because they are best friends? Because Twiggy has been in the band the longest? To grant his wishes to make him happy so he will stay and "save the band?" If those are the only reasons then I think that's terrible.

    To try and add something kind of positive to the whole change, the novelty of him doing backup vocals and guitar is kind of neato. At least at first it was. Plus he looks like he has had a lot of fun doing it. Does that mean he should play those live roles in the Manson band? Not really! Good, let him play guitar in the studio, let him compose, but leave it up to the professionals with actual talent to pull it off live. If not and Twiggy is going to continue to play those live roles, then we can only hope that he will get better as he goes along (sadly at the expense of others who pay good money.)
    I take it that you don't play an instrument and have never been in a recording environment?
    Last edited by 1984; 07-25-2012 at 05:27 AM.

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kollaps View Post
    I take it that you don't play an instrument and have never been in a recording environment?
    Take it however you want. I'm not sure what you are getting at though, Kollaps, would you care to explain a little more? Are you trying to say you disagree that studio and live are different from each other?
    Last edited by Adonai; 07-25-2012 at 02:35 PM.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adonai View Post
    Take it however you want. I'm not sure what you are getting at though, Kollaps, would you care to explain a little more? Are you trying to say you disagree that studio and live are different from each other?
    No, I definitely agree with you on that point but it is probably better to have a bad guitarist live on stage then in the studio, not that Twig is one by a long shot. A lot of precision is required in the studio and mistakes are not as easily concealable as on they are on stage.

    I'll agree that the backing vocals are a bit dodgy, though.

  6. #36
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    Twiggy records as a live player, he is not at all like a studio musician like skold or john. Even his studio stuff has a.rawness which is what makes him.so good as a live player. He's not a.shred guitarist, but having watched him play guitar in MM, NIN and hearing how Goon Moon is live - I have no doubts about his guitar playing or vocals. No one will be calculated like J5, but Twiggy for me kicks Zum and Skold who both played very rigidly. Twiggy is the most natural sounding to me.

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kollaps View Post
    No, I definitely agree with you on that point but it is probably better to have a bad guitarist live on stage then in the studio, not that Twig is one by a long shot. A lot of precision is required in the studio and mistakes are not as easily concealable as on they are on stage.
    Wow, really. I would think the exact opposite to be true. I would think it would be much more difficult to conceal mistakes live than in the studio, it just makes more sense to me. Of course ... now that I think about it, I have to admit that I have not taken money and studio time in to consideration here. If you have to do it in one or two takes, then yeah, precision in the studio makes absolute sense. But then again, you only have to do it in one or two takes in a controlled and comfortable setting, not live every night in front of a crowd. With live, there is no going back. If you make a mistake you make a mistake (which I guess it can be labeled as "character?" lol) I also suppose being a master at improve would greatly help in those moments. I just haven't really been impressed with Twiggy live on guitar so far. It's cool to see him rock out, but yeah, my ears are sensitive and they tell me when they don't like something. Yeah, I do very much enjoy the studio recordings but I really believe that they are not the same.

    I haven't played live on a stage yet, but I have spent about the past sixteen years in a so-called studio environment. It is definitely not easy, (especially if it's a mickey mouse ghetto set-up and you are the only one doing everything.) I know I can hit "stop," "erase," and "record" any time I want though. I can split it up, make multiple tracks, add SFX and other crap over it if I want. I hardly ever split anything up though, I try and play each instrument the entire way through and am not so concerned with precision. If I play songs all the way through for a friend, live and unplugged, it is definitely a lot more difficult and precision is definitely key (for me at least) in a live setting.

    So who's to say that's not how they do it in the studio? Oh, hey Cringeon!


    Quote Originally Posted by Cringeon View Post
    Twiggy records as a live player, he is not at all like a studio musician like skold or john. Even his studio stuff has a.rawness which is what makes him.so good as a live player. He's not a.shred guitarist, but having watched him play guitar in MM, NIN and hearing how Goon Moon is live - I have no doubts about his guitar playing or vocals. No one will be calculated like J5, but Twiggy for me kicks Zum and Skold who both played very rigidly. Twiggy is the most natural sounding to me.
    What does that even mean? That "Twiggy records as a live player?" (and "he is not at all like a studio musician like skold or john") Because if it's in the studio, it's not "live." Right? And how do you know that he "records as a live player?" I've never heard anything like that about him before. Not that I can remember, at least. So far, I completely disagree with you on all points. Except for the shred guitarist thing. And I think Zim Zum was far superior on live guitar than Twiggy is now *ducks from flying objects thrown by other forum members* - it was a long time ago though ... so ...

    It's a little funny that you feel Twiggy is not very rigid on live guitar because that is actually a good word to describe how I feel about his "live sound."

    Twiggy! Please consider going back to bass. Take some vocal lessons too! >=p
    Last edited by Adonai; 07-25-2012 at 09:52 PM.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adonai View Post
    What does that even mean? That "Twiggy records as a live player?" (and "he is not at all like a studio musician like skold or john") Because if it's in the studio, it's not "live." Right? And how do you know that he "records as a live player?" I've never heard anything like that about him before. Not that I can remember, at least. So far, I completely disagree with you on all points. Except for the shred guitarist thing. And I think Zim Zum was far superior on live guitar than Twiggy is now *ducks from flying objects thrown by other forum members* - it was a long time ago though ... so ...

    It's a little funny that you feel Twiggy is not very rigid on live guitar because that is actually a good word to describe how I feel about his "live sound."

    Twiggy! Please consider going back to bass. Take some vocal lessons too! >=p
    MM, Twiggy and Sean Beaven have all talked about the recording process a bit, and that the way Twiggy approaches his recording is that he doesn't pour over things in the studio. He has his riff, jams it out and records it down with just a single mic. It's about being in the moment and capturing just a great raw performace compared to the people that labor over track after track, take after take - doing tracks, reamps, overdubs etc. It's cool if people like a particular member more, but I had a lot of issues with Zum live who suffered from some timing issues, and who's live sound sounded more like someone covering MM songs in the bedroom.

    If MM needs anything, it's more Twiggy vocals :D

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cringeon View Post
    Twiggy records as a live player, he is not at all like a studio musician like skold or john. Even his studio stuff has a.rawness which is what makes him.so good as a live player. He's not a.shred guitarist, but having watched him play guitar in MM, NIN and hearing how Goon Moon is live - I have no doubts about his guitar playing or vocals. No one will be calculated like J5, but Twiggy for me kicks Zum and Skold who both played very rigidly. Twiggy is the most natural sounding to me.
    Exactly.

    I became a fan in 2004, when Lest We Forget came out, so I didn't have the opportunity to follow the band with him. At first I didn't like Twiggy, haha, I don't know why, although I respected what he did and what he represented as a member, but this was just during a few months and then I started to admire him a lot. I didn't think about him coming back to the band, even because he was playing with Nine Inch Nails at the time. But then I remember that on the same day it was announced he was back, I read some rumours about it, but it was something like "Rob left the band and Twiggy is back" and I was like "WHAT????? No, that's impossible!!!" and then a few hours later MansonUSA posts the news with the picture of Twiggy and Manson together. I went completely nuts! I even started to cry, lol All of my friends had the same reaction, it was amazing.

    As for the bass vs. guitar thing: I like him in any way. Of course, he's great on bass, wrote fantastic bass lines through the years, but there's something about him playing guitar live that I love: It's spontaneous, raw, with so much feeling. He doesn't have thousands of techniques like John 5, but the feeling he put on the songs becomes better than that.

  10. #40
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    I really got into MM a few months before Mechanical Animals came out. I got to see them during the US Promo tour and then on the Rock Is Dead tour. The line up was killer, by far my fave for MA and Holy Wood. During the GGG tour, I saw Manson many times and got to meet Twiggy a couple of times.

    Originally when I heard Twiggy left, I didn't know if the band would ever be as strong. Suprisingly, GAOG blew me away. Skold was a strong addition. Even when EMDM was released I was impressed.

    Twiggy's return has been such a joy; however, I would rather see him on bass.



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