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Thread: Born Villain

  1. #31
    A Better Messiah's Avatar
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    Yeah, I think that you basically summed this album up better than anybody else could have/has thus far. It's very impressive, and I'm just going to leave it at that.

  2. #32
    The Wax Gentleman's Avatar
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    Thank you, and of course.

    ...Of course meaning of course you should leave it that, lol.

  3. #33
    apokalypsos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wax Gentleman View Post
    THE FLOWERS OF EVIL

    I’ve been running from the bloodless for fear of exile for all of my sorceries,
    That shun the light.


    This stanza paints a picture in your mind of a scene from a horror movie involving zombies and villainy, both subjects prevalent throughout the entire course of Born Villain. This song doesn’t keep the album moving forward in the way the past few have, but it keeps the concept of change and villainy as the envelope for it all. Another step along the path of Born Villain.

    I’ve been running from the bloodless for fear of exile for all of my sorceries,
    That shun the light.


    Personally, I interpreted "the bloodless" as divine and immortal beings, not of flesh and blood.
    I envision a human in the presence of the divine, fully aware that he/she does not belong in this metaphorical "garden of the gods."
    "Running from," or rather attempting to blend in, like a weed amongst a garden of beautiful flowers. Hoping that we will not be plucked from the soil and can forever remain in this state unborn, eternal, Much like humanity before "the fall of man."

    I think that it's interesting to think about how flowers need sunlight in order to grow, "shunning the light" seems to hint that they do not wish to grow, or rather be BORN. But as mentioned in interviews... sometimes you have to be the catalyst and play the role of the villain going against "the light" in order to bring about a change.

  4. #34
    Catholic Girls with UZIs johncraze's Avatar
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    Congratulations Wax Gentleman!

    Your analysis really blew my head off, there is no doubt in my mind that in BV there is a perfect balance between the value of the music and the value of the lyrics.

  5. #35

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    that line... "I've been running from the bloodless for fear of exile for all of my sorceries...that shun the light" does not make me think of a horror movie with zombie or immortal beings..."gods" if you will.

    To me, it's a matter of being kicked out or killed for one's beliefs against a simple minded society. Like witch hunters. Or anyone that is fascist and calls for the heads of those with different idea's than their own. I think of a primitive mob in the dark ages with burning torches and pitch forks chasing after a man who is now considered a criminal and a threat. Or even a "demon". Because he doesn't except the religion or the morals of the time. I think of anti-heroes and Born Villains like Marquis De Sade, Nietzsche, Darwin, and even Jesus. A man who comes with a bag of tricks and attempts to enlighten these ignorant simple minded people...and they turn on him for blasphemy. I think of Thus Spake Zarathustra. I think of Moses and the Israelites in the Old Testament, leaving to walk the desert after he freed the slaves. I think of Antichrist Superstar.

    To me, the "Born Villain" concept is VERY human. Nothing, or at least not much to do with gods. I realize "gods" are referenced. To me, Born Villain is a man who questions himself. "I don't know which me that I love...got no reflection". No Reflection is not about a vampire. It's about a sociopath. Or someone struggling with identity. The album touches on all the "villains" throughout the ages. Cain and Able, Macbeth, Murderers, rape, etc.. Flowers symbolizes beauty and growth. The Flowers of Evil could easily have been the Seeds of Evil. The Gardener could easily be a God or Father figure. What do gardeners do? They tend to their crops so they are prosperous. Some of these flowers appear evil, or maybe they are just villains. Breaking the same old ground is just the next generation of seeds. Ask which one they are.


    EDIT

    I wrote the above after just skimming page 4. I didn't see all that amazing hard work on the previous pages. I just got done reading everything, and all I can say is CONGRATS! It's a really fucking great analysis man! There are certain things that I still agree with, with my own interpretations, but you showed me things that I didn't realize or haven't seen at all yet. I agree with a lot of your thoughts and you've inspired new ones for me. So thank you!
    Last edited by M Tragedy666; 02-09-2013 at 07:15 AM.

  6. #36
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    In his 2009 book Columbine, writer Dave Cullen claims that at the time she was confronted and then shot to death by Eric Harris, Columbine High School attack victim Cassie Bernall was studying Macbeth.

    Although entirely tangential, I find it interesting that the Born Villain promotional film - in which Manson hunts down and then shoots a man to death - features both Overneath The Path Of Misery, and the oft-repeated 'No Reason', in conjunction with the "Sound And Fury" Macbeth quotation. If we were to consider opposing forces, Bernall was allegedly subject to Harris asking her "Do you believe in god?", to which the answer "Yes" resulted in execution. Witness reports thereafter refuted this, with Harris apparently simply saying "Peek-A-Boo" before opening fire. My curiosity lies in the resultant dualism of 'Yes', and 'No', even if they are mythologised.
    "the Serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which
    the LORD god had made
    "

    m e m e n t o m o r i . p o s t m o r t e m


  7. #37
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    I spent last night reading through this entire thread-
    this is like the missing Nachtkabarett article about Born Villain,
    Thank you.

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  9. #38
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    The philosophy of Born Villain reminds me of 'a Clockwork Orange' which is a film ultimately about the hypocrisy of our society, and how society sees fit to punish their own children because of their mistakes.
    Alex DeLarge is a product of his surroundings, just like Marilyn Manson;
    'I am your shit, do not be ashamed of what you have eaten...'
    - Rock 'n' Roll Nigger

    Manson even wore the 'single eyelash' of Alex DeLarge during the 'Lest We Forget' Era.

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  11. #39
    The Wax Gentleman's Avatar
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    I have to see that movie, I've seen it discussed in relation to Manson countless times. Thanks for reminding me.
    On another note, god. Looking back over this thread is so embarrassing. I'm going to re-write this in a less pretentious repetitive way at some point, to ease my mind.

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