A Marilyn Manson renaissance

[me_andre]

Marilyn Manson used to be a populare icon in the 90s. As we all know Manson was looked upon as a relevant force in the populare culture. There was an intellectual force in his artistic sublimity which caused most people to have an opinion about him. Not only music fans, but people in general. With "The Golden Age of Grotesque" Marilyn Manson had his last impact as he himself stated in the song "This is the new shit" that "everything has been said before, there's nothing left to say anymore.... so let us entertain you". He sunk into his own world of post modernism and went from looking at the world to focus his sight inwards. After this it could be argued that Manson lost interest in the philosophical and thought provoking nature which he used to spit in the face of our culture. After three more poetical, romantical inspired albums "EAT ME, DRINK ME", "The High End of Low" and "Born Villain"; Manson knew where he have put himself. In the end of "Born Villain" Manson sings "we just keep on breaking the same old ground". At first sight this is a statement about a personal relationship, but if one is to dig a little deeper it could be a statement about the band and symbol "Marilyn Manson" itself. After x factor, youtube, social networking in general and the modern culture have moved into a much different landscape, Marilyn Manson have lost the pop cultural x factor. With introspective lyrics, substance abuse and a depressive state Manson was no longer the person he used to be, and it can be argued that he lost interest for the world and the progress of our society.

On the other hand I would like to state that this have changed. With "Born Villain" Manson really ended a chapter in his career. The album is looked upon by many fans as the best Marilyn Manson album since "Holy Wood" and even though the popular culture is not as interested as it used to be about Marilyn Manson there is an creative energy within the band which has not been there in this way in many, many years. The new tour have a higher quality of preformances and music videos are realised one after the other. Manson isn't even done with his tour and yet he is already getting into the idea of making a new album. He say he wants a come back, whatever that means. He have also had more acting roles in the last year, and Manson have talked about getting into film making for many years now. He also have a lot of new painting the public is yet to see. Manson said before "Born Villain" came out that he wants to merge his art and make some sort of synthesis.

It is unclear what the future of Marilyn Manson holds. But I would like to argue that the man sounds as inspired as in his "Smells like Children" era, the time before the bands magnum opus "Antichrist Superstar". At this time anything could happen. Personally I would like to see a merged artisitic vision come to life. A Marilyn Manson take on a "Haus of Gaga", "The factory", or "The Wall" kind of approach. What would you predict the future holds for Manson? Do you think there could be time for a pop cultural renaissance for Marilyn Manson? And how do you think you would react if Manson made a new era which even outshined "the tripych"? A context where we would not be a little fan cult, but rather a relevant part in today's pop world? What if new fans were around every corner, Manson could be seen on every cover, and every person again had to aknowledge the consept of Marilyn Manson? I don't even know if this is what Manson wants at this point. But what would it take and how would you as a fan react to this consept?

[Celebrity Killing Spree]

I always like the topic of what we are hoping may come next. I have some ideas of my own to share as well, but first there's something about your summation that I'd like to address. Forgive me for being tangential, but I think there is an assumption here that a lot of younger fans tend to make. (I don't know how old you are so forgive me if you're actually in your 40's or something)

I was around in the nineties (and in highschool throughout the triptych years) I don't remember Manson ever being considered "relevant" by the mainstream. It seems like he is named dropped all the time now, but that's because the shock and outrage has passed. Back in the day, people in the mainstream were either with the scapegoat crowd or just dismissed him as gimmick.

Sure he did sell a lot of albums but you have to consider that that was also during the peak of the nu-metal scene and anything remotely moshable would sell regardless of it being relevant, understood or critically accepted. Which is to say that Fred Durst was a cultural icon at the time.

I'm not saying that Manson and Fred Durst are comparable. Obviously Manson is a brilliant artist and Durst is a jizz sock in a Yankees cap, I'm just saying that Manson's apparent popularity at the time doesn't mean he was ever embraced or understood.

"Popular" does not necessarily mean "appreciated."

But anyhow, on to the topic at hand:

I'd love to see Manson take a more multidisciplinary approach in the future. Especially something like The Wall. It was why I was so excited for Phantasmagoria back in 07. It seemed like it had great potential to merge the narrative, visual and musical elements in a more complete way. More than just an expanded music video. Along the lines of BV except a full length feature film or possibly multimedia experience. Presumably it would have included new music of either incidental stuff along the lines of Resident Evil or full on tracks, so he'd still have retained his status as a musician and had something he'd be able to tour. I'd love for him to be able to commit to something like this but I also feel like he is also just allowing himself to be pulled in all different directions.

I have to assume he's somewhat like me and his mind is going a mile a minute all the time with new ideas. It's hard to commit to simply one creative endeavor when you are constantly wanting to try new things. Films require a lot of commitment and time to a singular vision.

I think what is more likely to happen is similar to what he talked about during the brief Celebritarian era. Where he would just release a series of paintings/short films/random tracks here and there as they suited him. Moving away from complete albums and touring and more into a "here's what I made today" kind of thing. The problem with this is that it isn't very commercially viable. It's very hard to be able to sell an odd film short or random track here and there without compiling it into some kind of bundle and beyond that it's virtually impossible to market. But out of the two, I think this is still the more likely outcome. You know aside from getting new albums and tours every 3 or 4 years.

[The Wax Gentleman]

^ That would be absolutely fantastic, I know I would enjoy this very much. If what Manson has said about artistic responsibility, etc, holds any validity at all, he wouldn't care about making money as he already has huge amounts of it.
Realistically, however, I predict this will happen. The Born Villain special edition will be released and have some cool artwork in it. The Phantasmagoria film will then be released. Then he will proceed to make another album about who knows what. He mentioned the "heyday of Salvador Dali and Andy Warhol," and although I really like that vision, he's done that. Those concepts have been milked to death by him. I sincerely hope he does something totally different, thought provoking, and unexpected, creating the same atmosphere that was created when he released TGAOG or EMDM.

[thatrussianman]

Those concepts have been milked to death by him. I sincerely hope he does something totally different, thought provoking, and unexpected, creating the same atmosphere that was created when he released TGAOG or EMDM.

YES

[petticoat]

What's exciting about being the same age as Marilyn Manson/Brian Warner is that we have the same cultural heritage in so many ways and I strongly feel that he will have a lot more to say as time goes by, keeping in mind, of course, that everything's been said before, he'll just do it in different ways. Per whether it is commercially viable or not, is not something I think he's in it for. To a certain extent, yes, to continue living in the style he's become accustomed to, etc, but I don't think commerciality and marketability is what drives Marilyn Manson. I hope he expands into more painting and directing and acting as well as music. And to perform in smaller, more intimate venues where real connection can be made. Most multi-talented people flounder around because they have so many things they're good at and I've no doubt MM/Mr. Warner is within their company. Awesome time to be alive.

[The Hand]

Sure he did sell a lot of albums but you have to consider that that was also during the peak of the nu-metal scene and anything remotely moshable would sell regardless of it being relevant, understood or critically accepted. Which is to say that Fred Durst was a cultural icon at the time.

I swear I've had this out before... as another gen x/y kiddy, I have to disagree - Manson's peak was 96-98, and Nu Metal peaked just after that. He definitely wasn't riding the nu-metal wave or era. There were nu metal around since 1994, but really Manson was part of the whole "Alternative Rock" thing post-nirvana. His glory years saw him with contemporaries like Smashing Pumpkins, Nine Inch Nails, Hole, White Zombie etc, he was definitely more part of that era than the Nu Metal thing - fair play Korn were knocking around throughout the mid to late 90s, but the rest of the genre's giants - Bizkit, Slipknot, Linkin Park et al, didn't become super-huge until after 97-98

The buzz he was riding was the Nirvana/NIN thing for angsty, visceral alt-rock. The Nu-Metal thing was a very different crowd (jock butt-rockers and korn hoodie kids). Holy-Wood and GAOG were popular with the kerrang/slipknot/mosh kids, but that was after his peak - GAOG was a #1, fair enough, but Holy Wood didn't do so well at the time. Whereas with ACSS to MA, he was on the up and up

Personally I'd like to see Manson strip it right down & take a very long time over the next album. Come back with no makeup, a do a weird album with lots of acoustic and call it "Manson/Twiggy". I really liked the quirkiness & Eno style ambience of the Goon Moon LP, something like that but with MM singing would be great

And no more singing about himself... I would love a return to the days where MM did bizarre songs that were lyrically the equiavlent of David Lynch - ie people were divided on what it all meant, if indeed it meant anything. His lyrics today are too explicitly personal for my taste

[Celebrity Killing Spree]

Fair enough. But the concept still applies. Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana and the alternative scene were equally as much a popular fad and just as moshable.

I'm not saying that Manson became famous by fitting in, but he did benefit by tapping into an already established fan base of people who were into heavy-ish "altenative" music.

[Manichaeist]

It is unclear what the future of Marilyn Manson holds. But I would like to argue that the man sounds as inspired as in his "Smells like Children" era, the time before the bands magnum opus "Antichrist Superstar".

I think the biggest difference between now and then is that he's gone to great pains to tell the press how inspired he is whereas 18 years ago (holy crap, has it really been that long) he just let his music do the talking. usually when someone in any walk of public life feels the need to have his p.r. include how hungry he is, it's a sure bet that the well has damn near run dry. While I think Born Villain is far better than the steaming pile of shit he dropped three years ago, it's only a return to form in a relative sense; sure, it's better than the guy's low water mark, but by definition almost anything else would have to be.

[Divine]

I think the biggest difference between now and then is that he's gone to great pains to tell the press how inspired he is whereas 18 years ago (holy crap, has it really been that long) he just let his music do the talking. usually when someone in any walk of public life feels the need to have his p.r. include how hungry he is, it's a sure bet that the well has damn near run dry. While I think Born Villain is far better than the steaming pile of shit he dropped three years ago, it's only a return to form in a relative sense; sure, it's better than the guy's low water mark, but by definition almost anything else would have to be.

Yeah I double this

His music is sounding better on paper than it does on disc

[petticoat]

I think Manson should cover the song "She's Not There" by the Zombies. And then maybe design some jewelery.