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Thread: The Age of Manipulation: The Con in Confidence, The Sin in Sincere

  1. #1

    Join Date: 03.28.13
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    Default The Age of Manipulation: The Con in Confidence, The Sin in Sincere

    Well with a book title like that we have to talk about it, right? Better yet, get this; the opening passage is even more relevant.

    Over fifteen years have passed since Wilson Bryan Key first warned us to 'Watch ourselves!' much as the Greek god Zeus once cautioned Narcissus."

    But that's not enough. Before the foreword is a quote in the dedication section.

    "'There's no use trying,' said Alice. 'One can't believe impossible things.'

    I daresay you haven't had much practice,' said the Queen. 'When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast.'"

    Yeah. An Alice quote. In a book that obviously has some significance to Deep Six. So, what's this book about? Manipulation of the masses via the media, not only in subliminal messages, but for various purposes in various ways. One section specifically talks religion, and the use of it for getting rich. A lovely quote:

    "If the communist menace suddenly disappeared, many US politicians would become unemployable. They would quickly have to come up with a new menace."

    Communist menace? Oh yeah, did I forget to mention this was released in 1989? At the same time a young Brian Hugh Warner was finding himself, finding his beliefs, and his contempt for the media especially. The section that quote comes from talks about how public patriotism or religion is done to be seen, done not for one's belief, but for the admiration they get from others for their actions. The book also talks about how it has been shown that those believe themselves to be the most independent and uncontrollable and individualistic are often the easiest to control with manipulation. Which heavily independent and individualistic person has been played and betrayed by those closest to him multitudes of times?

    While some of us may disagree with the book due to history of panics regarding subliminal messages, it's obvious Manson has read it, and likely rather close to the release, seeing as it and the three previous books by the author were quite popular in colleges. However, something more interesting, despite being more of a psychology book, it was, quite ironically used in advertising classes, as to warn about something you have to teach it, and so the book both warns and shows you what they're doing and therefore teaches you how to do it. Manson may have been a journalism major at the time, but his best friend and band co-founder was an advertising major, which means it's quite possible that Daisy/Scott could have introduced him to the book.

    Now, I haven't finished the book, but it's been a good read so far, and after hitting post I'm going to go back to reading it. For those of you interested, I uploaded it to my Google Drive so you can download it.

    https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwO...ew?usp=sharing

    And now I have pretty much proof he read this book a long time ago, from one quote:

    "Marshall McLuhan described projections as 'Narcissus Narcosis.' As we perceive endless hours of media involvement, we unconsciously project and identify with heroes against villains"

    This section is discussing how people take their own issues, their own internal worries and emotions and project them on others, like a cheating or fantasising about cheating spouse believing their spouse is infidelious. If the phrase "Narcissus Narcosis" sounds familiar, it's a Holy Wood song. Further more, as we know, Narcissus is brought up again in Deep Six.

    The term "Narcissus Narcosis" is about the fact that this projection on endless media numbs them to reality. By projecting themselves on to the heroes, they numb themselves to real life, only seeing themselves as the hero and their foes as the villain. In Manson's case, he was their target, their born villain, after Columbine.

    The next passage is brilliant.

    "The design and staging of rock groups provide another example of projective identification. Images are engineered by sophisticated music investment corporations to be instantly revolting to parents and evoke panic about their children's welfare. For the immature audiences, the group must project their defiance of parental supervision and moral restrictions and offer an affront to authority figures of all types. The engineering of rock music and the groups who play it focuses on the instabilities inherent in the ages of their fans. Heavy metal rock groups, for example, are designed to project a fantasy of Satan as savior for neurosis-prone, lower-working-class teenagers. Heavy metal has made enormous profits for record companies but has promoted suicide and antisocial violence as an answer to adolescent problems"

    Sound familiar? It gets better with a quote from an NME interview about The Pale Emperor

    "'The redneck in me comes out in my voice, and its got some old blues mixed with the very hard elements,' he said. 'I want to retain what I think is good about the past, what music I did and who I am. It's not about being pissed about the world – it's about realising someone has to fuck things up.'"

    He openly chose the path described above, in this book he clearly read a long time ago and influenced him. While the book has a cynical view on it, however, Manson obviously doesn't see it as preying on them for profit, but giving them something to identify with, something to look up to, and something to help them decide for themselves by telling them not to just listen to him. He's taken his power over people to fight back against those with power over people, himself included.

    Check out page 105 (62 in the PDF, 105 at the bottom). It's really interesting and pretty important.

    Honestly, typing everything out is exhausting. Perhaps this little passage is unimportant, but the phrase used makes me wonder, so I'll post it.



    In case there's a bit of confusion/forgetfulness, "FUCK IT!" is the opening to Irresponsible Hate Anthem.

    The part after that talks about how high-order abstractions like "love" and "god" have different meanings to everyone and how it's weird that everyone demands people agree with theirs.

    The book makes the argument that an objective truth is impossible, as defining it automatically makes it subjective, and so an objective truth would have to exist outside of definition, which is a logical paradox. Yes, I'm basically liveblogging a book. I'm pathetic, I know. Go read it and let's discuss what it means in relation to Manson. It's a good book even without that.

    Part Two, or An Argument For This Being The Celebritarian Bible
    Part Three, or Jesus' Giant Throbbing Penis
    Part Four, or The Fall of The House of Death
    Last edited by HG131; 06-18-2015 at 07:26 PM. Reason: How did I miss that typo?

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  3. #2
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    Great post. This is why I have such a problem with people who want a redux of Antichrist Superstar. I've said it many times before. It was described as a collective consciousness. One set to fail and eventually collapsed. It was a suicide petition. A wager. A bet. It was a hollow, lost and disorderly scream of rebellion that eventually led to the demise of those magnetized to that way of thinking and feeling. I could post excerpts and examples as you have but I've already done that over the years to no avail, and it doesn't surprise me. He does exactly what he wants us to rebel against. I've never seen Marilyn Manson's music as empowering as much as it is something to make us question ourselves, each other and him as well. I'm a Marilyn Manson fan in a different way. Not in a better way, but in a way that I see what he is doing differently. Most people who grew up listening to Manson while he was finding his identity as you say, a paradoxical one, a hypocritical one, saw themselves as liberating themselves from the chains of conformity. What the Triptych proved was how malleable the ones who assert themselves as independent thinkers and strong willed are.

    He's said that his art is a "silent film for blind folks". What he's done really has never been that shocking, because it's no surprise how easily people are shepherded by an eccentric and overblown persona. It's right in your face yet people identify with something that he is representing as "fucked up". He's been open about his affiliations with the O.T.O, much like Crowley, who is one of his major influences. Even on MA where he proclaimed to be an "Alien Messiah", Lam. He draws a lot from Discordian literature. The Book of Lies, The Apocrypha Discordia, and even authors such as "Malaclypse the Younger".

    Even though this a a great thread, it probably won't garner much acknowledgement and I just described why. Marilyn Manson isn't a band, it's a social experiment that started off as an inside joke and it worked. Again, good post.
    Last edited by Shangri-LIE; 01-04-2015 at 07:42 AM.
    OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM


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    very interesting. On a side note, I remember wondering, with all the incredibly enlightening books/art/ideas etc. Manson alludes to, why he rarely goes into detail on some of the more important topics in interviews. I realize now that it's an initiation. What he does promotes the curiosity for those things and if he went into detail he would have to endlessly defend himself and would basically get leeched by most people. Instead he promotes things so that only those that deserve the answers look for them.

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    Damn my brain hurts from reading all this interesting stuff. The sad thing about possessing this knowledge is that you're one of the very very few. Even bringing something like this up around people will have them look at you like you're fucking crazy.
    I'm thirsty for more stuff like this, what other books would you recommend?
    Last edited by ReversedHate; 01-04-2015 at 09:04 AM.

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  9. #5

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    Yeah, only bring this stuff up in a deliberately absurd/humorous kind of way. Intelligent people will see the serious nature of the idea through the joke and talk to you about it in an appropriate environment. And the idiots will at least leave you alone and at best become charmed and you can use them for whatever they're good for at a later date.

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    Yeah, it's pretty deep and takes a bit to comprehend, and I've had to take breaks from reading the book. This is why there's entire websites devoted to analysing Manson's work, because he encodes this much into it. When you think about it, there should be a "Manson's Reading List" compiled from all the books he references. It seems he's finally gotten bored of us not getting it though, and is outright telling us, quoting this work, along with tweeting that one paranoid religious guy's thing about secret messages in Deep Six. That's just outright telling us to make the connection.



    This might be one of the most important passages, at least to me.

    Well, pages 192 and 193 are missing. Fuck.

    OH THIS IS JUST FANTASTIC. I'LL UPDATE IN A MOMENT



    Yep, he read this ages ago for sure.

    Sorry, you'll have to open it in a new tab. I got excited and forgot to crop.



    The media as our religion? Okay, now this book has skyrocketed on the interesting chart all the way up to "Holy shit".

    Basically, I think he's just pointed us to the foundations of Celebritarianism.

    Furthermore, the book talks about how deviants are needed in order for any moral code to work, because they give that moral code something to oppose.

    Plus, the book brings up the Ouroboros multiple times, which was significant to Holy Wood.

    Part One, or The Decent
    Part Three, or Jesus' Giant Throbbing Penis
    Part Four, or The Fall of The House of Death
    Last edited by HG131; 01-04-2015 at 01:12 PM.

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    I will read this book.

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    Posts like these make me proud to be a fan. Truly fascinating. I have to pick up this book now. I was reading your thread and I found it mind blowing in the sense about how accurate this book is in the significance to Marilyn Manson's career. This is an outstanding find thank you for this. I think you're on to something big at this point.

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  17. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pestilence View Post
    Posts like these make me proud to be a fan. Truly fascinating. I have to pick up this book now. I was reading your thread and I found it mind blowing in the sense about how accurate this book is in the significance to Marilyn Manson's career. This is an outstanding find thank you for this. I think you're on to something big at this point.
    Aww thank you, and if you have the money, it's on Amazon. In the mean time, you can just download it from my link. It's pretty damn amazing and does seem to be an overlooked foundation of his entire career.



    SFP stands for "Self Fulfilling Prophecy", and I'm posting this part due to it talking about Narcissus Narcosis some more.



    The crucifiction as mass-marketed merch.



    That's the Jesus painting he's talking about. The Giant Dick Christ.

    Part One, or The Decent
    Part Two, or An Argument For This Being The Celebritarian Bible
    Part Four, or The Fall of The House of Death
    Last edited by HG131; 01-04-2015 at 01:12 PM.

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  19. #10
    Not man enough to b human Manson15Marilyn's Avatar
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    Here come the conspiracy theories. *braces for impact*
    I am your vulture, your immoral sculpture, mirrorman who understands. I know you. I am you, your fantasy, reality.

    Don't be surprised I can look you in the eye. It's hard to take you serious when you take me inside.

    How the fuck are we supposed to know when I'm a monster in the way you refuse to die? How the fuck are we supposed to know if we're in love or if we're in pain?
    "Are we in love or are we in pain?"

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