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Thread: Pound Me The Witch Drums

  1. #1

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    Default Pound Me The Witch Drums

    Better pray for Hell, not Hallelujah. What's it mean? Well, surprisingly, it's a bit more simple than I was expecting.

    A shaman used the witch drum not only as a musical instrument, but also as a magical device, which he implemented in order to induce himself into a mystical "trance", and to seek wisdom only obtainable far beyond the realm of day-to-day reality. By singing and drumming he was able to reach the proper mood and feeling, preparing himself for a journey into the Underworld (Manala or Tuonela in Finnish). During the trance he could communicate with the souls of the dead who dwelled in the Manala, presenting them with questions, for example, about the reasons of sickness, future events, and advice for whatever the community and its members would require for their good and well-being.

    Minister Samuel Rheen was aware that the drum helped the shaman to:

    • gain knowledge of events taking place elsewhere - even in locations at very great distances;

    • find out whether plans for the future will succeed or not, and whether illness will strike among the people;

    • discover ways to cure the sick,

    • and to acquire wisdom as to what sort of offering would please the gods or demons, and what kind of animal should be killed as a sacrifice.


    The witch drum or "Lappish drum", as it was also referred to, was made of wood and skin. It was painted with diverse symbols which were utilised for various purposes. On some drums there were symbols representing different places, or events like hunting excursions. On others - the newer ones - there were also depictions of Heaven with angels, and of Hell with the devil. When uncovering future events by drumming, a small tool, arpa (a die) danced on the drumhead and moved from one figure to another. On that basis the diagnosis was made. The movements of the die could also be used to force the spirits or demons to submit to what the shaman had ordered.

    In the 17th and 18th centuries shaman drums in Finland were destroyed by the clergy. Not a single drum is known to have survived. However, in Sweden some original drums can be seen in Nordiska Museet (The National Museum of Cultural History) in Stockholm.


    So, a witch drum was used in a ritual magic to go to or communicate with the underworld, or in a Christian sense, Hell. Many have remarked/snarked that prayer is basically a Christian replacement for ritual magic, which seems to be how it's used here. In this ritual magic, you go to Hell, and Christian prayer is used for Heaven, the location associated with Hallelujah.

    Hallelujah (/ˌhlɨˈluːjə/ hal-ə-loo-yə) is a transliteration of the Hebrew word הַלְּלוּיָהּ (Modern halleluya, Tiberian halləlyāh), which is composed of two elements: הַלְּלוּ (second-person imperative masculine plural form of the Hebrew verb hallal: an exhortation to "praise" addressed to several people[1]) and יָהּ (Yah).[2][3][4]

    Most well-known English versions of the Hebrew Bible translate the Hebrew "Hallelujah" (as at Psalm 150:1) as two Hebrew words, generally rendered as "Praise (ye)" and "the LORD", but the second word is given as "Yah" in the Lexham English Bible and Young's Literal Translation, "Jehovah" in the American Standard Version, and "Hashem" in the Orthodox Jewish Bible. Instead of a translation, the transliteration "Hallelujah" is used by JPS Tanakh, International Standard Version, Darby Translation, God's Word Translation, Holman Christian Standard Bible, and The Message, with the spelling "Halleluyah" appearing in the Complete Jewish Bible. The Greek-influenced form "Alleluia" appears in Wycliffe's Bible, the Knox Version and the New Jerusalem Bible.

    In the great song of praise to God for his triumph over the Whore of Babylon[5] in chapter 19 of the New Testament Book of Revelation, the Greek word ἀλληλούϊα (allēluia), a transliteration of the same Hebrew word, appears four times, as an expression of praise rather than an exhortation to praise.[6] In English translations this is mostly rendered as "Hallelujah",[7] but as "Alleluia" in several translations,[8] while a few have "Praise the Lord",[9] "Praise God",[10] "Praise our God",[11] or "Thanks to our God".[12]

    הַלְּלוּיָהּ is found 24 times in the book of Psalms, and the Greek transliteration ἀλληλούϊα appears in the Septuagint version of these Psalms, in Tobit 13:17 and 3 Maccabees 7:13 and four times in Revelation 19.[6] The word is used in Judaism as part of the Hallel prayers, and in Christian prayer,[5] where since the earliest times[6] it is used in various ways in liturgies,[13] especially those of the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church,[14] both of which use the form "alleluia".


    Hallelujah is "Praise the Lord". However, witch drums are used in the inverse, especially in the eyes of Christianity.

    A bit of speculation, but Cupid Carries A Gun is the second-to-last song on the album, besides for the bonus tracks. So, in the second to last song, Manson is talking about a ceremony for going to Hell, or at least communicating with it. Could be important.
    Last edited by HG131; 01-07-2015 at 01:13 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by HG131 View Post
    Better pray for Hell, not Hallelujah. What's it mean? Well, surprisingly, it's a bit more simple than I was expecting.

    A shaman used the witch drum not only as a musical instrument, but also as a magical device, which he implemented in order to induce himself into a mystical "trance", and to seek wisdom only obtainable far beyond the realm of day-to-day reality. By singing and drumming he was able to reach the proper mood and feeling, preparing himself for a journey into the Underworld (Manala or Tuonela in Finnish). During the trance he could communicate with the souls of the dead who dwelled in the Manala, presenting them with questions, for example, about the reasons of sickness, future events, and advice for whatever the community and its members would require for their good and well-being.

    Minister Samuel Rheen was aware that the drum helped the shaman to:

    • gain knowledge of events taking place elsewhere - even in locations at very great distances;


    • find out whether plans for the future will succeed or not, and whether illness will strike among the people;


    • discover ways to cure the sick,


    • and to acquire wisdom as to what sort of offering would please the gods or demons, and what kind of animal should be killed as a sacrifice.


    The witch drum or "Lappish drum", as it was also referred to, was made of wood and skin. It was painted with diverse symbols which were utilised for various purposes. On some drums there were symbols representing different places, or events like hunting excursions. On others - the newer ones - there were also depictions of Heaven with angels, and of Hell with the devil. When uncovering future events by drumming, a small tool, arpa (a die) danced on the drumhead and moved from one figure to another. On that basis the diagnosis was made. The movements of the die could also be used to force the spirits or demons to submit to what the shaman had ordered.

    In the 17th and 18th centuries shaman drums in Finland were destroyed by the clergy. Not a single drum is known to have survived. However, in Sweden some original drums can be seen in Nordiska Museet (The National Museum of Cultural History) in Stockholm.


    So, a witch drum was used in a ritual magic to go to or communicate with the underworld, or in a Christian sense, Hell. Many have remarked/snarked that prayer is basically a Christian replacement for ritual magic, which seems to be how it's used here. In this ritual magic, you go to Hell, and Christian prayer is used for Heaven, the location associated with Hallelujah.

    Hallelujah (/ˌhlɨˈluːjə/ hal-ə-loo-yə) is a transliteration of the Hebrew word הַלְּלוּיָהּ (Modern halleluya, Tiberian halləlyāh), which is composed of two elements: הַלְּלוּ (second-person imperative masculine plural form of the Hebrew verb hallal: an exhortation to "praise" addressed to several people[1]) and יָהּ (Yah).[2][3][4]

    Most well-known English versions of the Hebrew Bible translate the Hebrew "Hallelujah" (as at Psalm 150:1) as two Hebrew words, generally rendered as "Praise (ye)" and "the LORD", but the second word is given as "Yah" in the Lexham English Bible and Young's Literal Translation, "Jehovah" in the American Standard Version, and "Hashem" in the Orthodox Jewish Bible. Instead of a translation, the transliteration "Hallelujah" is used by JPS Tanakh, International Standard Version, Darby Translation, God's Word Translation, Holman Christian Standard Bible, and The Message, with the spelling "Halleluyah" appearing in the Complete Jewish Bible. The Greek-influenced form "Alleluia" appears in Wycliffe's Bible, the Knox Version and the New Jerusalem Bible.

    In the great song of praise to God for his triumph over the Whore of Babylon[5] in chapter 19 of the New Testament Book of Revelation, the Greek word ἀλληλούϊα (allēluia), a transliteration of the same Hebrew word, appears four times, as an expression of praise rather than an exhortation to praise.[6] In English translations this is mostly rendered as "Hallelujah",[7] but as "Alleluia" in several translations,[8] while a few have "Praise the Lord",[9] "Praise God",[10] "Praise our God",[11] or "Thanks to our God".[12]

    הַלְּלוּיָהּ is found 24 times in the book of Psalms, and the Greek transliteration ἀλληλούϊα appears in the Septuagint version of these Psalms, in Tobit 13:17 and 3 Maccabees 7:13 and four times in Revelation 19.[6] The word is used in Judaism as part of the Hallel prayers, and in Christian prayer,[5] where since the earliest times[6] it is used in various ways in liturgies,[13] especially those of the Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church,[14] both of which use the form "alleluia".


    Hallelujah is "Praise the Lord". However, witch drums are used in the inverse, especially in the eyes of Christianity.

    A bit of speculation, but Cupid Carries A Gun is the second-to-last song on the album, besides for the bonus tracks. So, in the second to last song, Manson is talking about a ceremony for going to Hell, or at least communicating with it. Could be important.
    In a non linear fashion, in regards to how he thinks and journals his own mythos, you could say he's already been through Hell and risen from it. Either that or he is discarding damaged goods by ritualistically putting the demons on his shoulders in their proper resting place. In the context of the song, he is luring someone or a group of people to where they tried to keep him binded to. It's a break up song for people who believe in shotgun divorces, not weddings. At the same time, the record is a story. When we have that officially, the plot will be easier to discuss in its entirety. Given it is the the second to last track before Odds of Even, "The Bet", paying your dues. It is a gamble you were never going to win. It gives the feel that it is about people who have tried to erase him and failed. The consequence being, "I'm on my way down now I'd like to take you with me". So, by attaching your negativity to him, and him amputating that magnetism from his identity, so you shall go down with that.
    Last edited by Shangri-LIE; 01-07-2015 at 01:44 PM.
    OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM


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  5. #3

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    I am also curious as to how this song plays out due to track listing, your speculation. See we shall!

  6. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by blue angel View Post
    I am also curious as to how this song plays out due to track listing, your speculation. See we shall!
    Awesome! And yeah, it seems important that, despite being finished last, it got placed there.

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    I swear I hear something other than "Pound me the witch drums, better pray for Hell not Hallelujah"

    It's something underneath it. The second time is the only time I can really hear it.

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    I'd like to add that I THINK that there is a word under the word "thighs" that is not the word "thighs".

    You savvy?

  11. #7
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    This is an awesome bit of speculation! Please share your findings on Genius.com!

    http://genius.com/Marilyn-manson-cup...s-a-gun-lyrics

  12. #8

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    Thank you for sharing shamanism with the rest of the board, I feel it's something that is commonly overlooked by the community despite Manson's involvements with the Church of Satan and O.T.O. Regardless of how one feels about metaphysical matters, I agree with the interpretation that Cupid Carries A Gun is a communion with the concept of death. Being the penultimate track before the the death-focused Odds of Even, it has been said in his interviews that it is an intentionally romantic song, a statement of love, and in my opinion, an agreement of how to deal with the concept of fatality and the measures that could be taken to such an extreme.

    "You say you want to be with me until you die? I take that very seriously." - Marilyn Manson

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    I thought that he was talking about MacBeth, when he and his wife (That's why cupid carries a gun) killed the king and then MacBeth enters with the sound of the witches drums as the new king or well the new emperor. There were some mentions about this in some tracks as In the shadow of the valley of death or King kill 33 (Now I understand why he played this song live as Hey cruel world tour was ending). Well that's what I thought it was... him claiming the throne of the lord after beating the previous one.

  14. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by mirthavidela View Post
    I thought that he was talking about MacBeth, when he and his wife (That's why cupid carries a gun) killed the king and then MacBeth enters with the sound of the witches drums as the new king or well the new emperor. There were some mentions about this in some tracks as In the shadow of the valley of death or King kill 33 (Now I understand why he played this song live as Hey cruel world tour was ending). Well that's what I thought it was... him claiming the throne of the lord after beating the previous one.
    Very, very interesting. I have not read Macbeth, but I know it had a strong influence on Born Villain. You mentioned "MacBeth enters with the sound of the witches drums".... is that from the play itself? Was there a specific reference to witch drums or something like that? Curious.

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