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Thread: I was Born into This

  1. #1
    Not man enough to b human Manson15Marilyn's Avatar
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    Default I was Born into This

    I haven't given much attention to Antichrist Svperstar in the last 5 or 6 years, admittedly I've been too distracted with all the awesome albums that have been coming out since (The High End of Low, Darkly Darkly Venus Aversa, Born Villain, Alpha Noir, Omega White, Manticore, etc) and through all the constant reminders online I've remained more interested in the recent new material appearing over that time. Until now. I've grown bored today, and so I figured "why not?" and started to compile all my ideas about the album's concept and now I suppose I'll share it with the online community that practically worships the album and it's creator :P

    Some time ago, with my playlist on shuffle, Man That You
    Fear came on, which relayed the phrase to me several more
    times "I was born into this." There are many lines through
    the album connotating youth, angst, childhood, etc. Which
    got me thinking: "Perhaps the character in the story is the
    child of a celebrity."
    As we open the insert, we see Revelation ch 12. A woman
    clothed with the Sun (a star) gives birth to a child, who
    is awaited to be devoured by the Dragon. Now it's no secret
    that the Dragon is "that old serpent called the devil and
    Satan which decieveth the whole world." So, now I allude
    to the previous album before:

    We are a symptom of your Christian America, the biggest Satan of all.

    So as this child was born, the American audience were
    waiting to "consume" this child, to be entertained by him.

    I like to think of it like, just as the Christ was born of god
    so the antichrist was born of the proverbial TV god. So who
    is this star who has this child?
    The album opens with a song recorded on Feb 14, 1997. The
    same day on which another song, from another album, was
    recorded. It is of my belief that those songs were by the same
    person. And who is the person in Born Again? Based on
    the lyrical content and the concept of HOLY WOOD (in the
    shadow of the valley of death), I believe that person to be
    the character from that album, Adam. It is in my perception
    of the trilogy that toward the end of HOLY WOOD is when
    Antichrist Svperstar begins. It is not only the date that links
    the two together, imo, but also the chain of events at the
    end of HOLY WOOD and the beginning of Antichrist Svperstar.

    Also, coincidentally or not, as to the Antichrist being the
    son of Adam:
    In Revelation, the beast from the earth is said to come forth
    and perform great signs and decieve mankind into believing
    he is the Christ, but according Revelation he is actually
    antichrist. The origin of the name Adam?


    Of red earth

    Etymology for Adam:
    Its root is not attributed to the Semitic root for "man" -(n)-sh. Rather, ׳āḏām is linked to its triliteral root אָדָם (a-d-m), meaning "red", "fair", "handsome". As a masculine noun, 'adam means "man", "mankind" usually in a collective context as in humankind. The noun 'adam is also the masculine form of the word adamah which means "ground" or "earth".

    Antichrist Svperstar goes through the stages of the antichrist
    life in Hollywood, and the things he experiences and learns
    there, as he rises to fame as an antagonistic superstar who
    is abhored by many but adored by others. And then we get
    to Man That You Fear.

    I have it all and I have no choice but to.

    He basically inherited the fame his father had. He has no
    choice but to take up his father's trade being brought up in
    his household. "I was born into this."

    The boy that you loved is the man that / monster You fear.

    To me, the song seems to be from his perspective of him
    toward the general direction of the audience. He was the
    subject of entertainment of people all his life. And people
    adored him in his innocence as a child. But he'd become
    quite abhorred by many in his later years. Closer and closer
    to the end of Antichrist Svperstar, the character seems to
    grow more and more nihilistic and narcissistic. "We're on the
    other side. The screen is us, and we're TV." So what he'd
    become is a mere projection for the viewer.

    I'll make everyone pay, And you will see.

    As famous as he'd gotten to this point, he obviously has people
    who abhorred him as much as those who adored him. But if
    he were to die, he'd surely earn his place in history since so
    many are watching and projecting themselves onto him. "If
    they kill you on their TV, you're a martyr and a lamb of god."
    This was alluded to in HOLY WOOD, but one part of the line
    I'm sampling from Man That You Fear was alluded to as well
    on the same album: "I'd kill myself to make everybody pay."

    His end game is to commit suicide so that he would be
    cemented in his fame rather than being forgotten after his
    15 mins of fame are up. And the song is wrapped up with
    "When all of your wishes are granted, many of your dreams
    will be destroyed." Growing up in such a luxurious home
    he was practically handed everything throughout his life.
    As he never learnt how to go without, he never learnt any
    of the important ways to cope with key situations and
    people in his life.

    In Of Grammatology, the author talks about the dangers
    of supplimenting for that which is natural, particularly the
    supplement of writing and of images in place of speech
    because "It diverts the immediate presence of thought to
    speech into representation and the imagination." He goes
    on to talk about how the supplement is exterior to nature
    and therefore is evil. But also that supplementation is necessary
    in life, and without childhood there would be no supplement
    because

    Plants are fashioned by cultivation, and men by education. If man were bom big and strong, his size and strength would be useless to him until he had learned to use them; they would create a prejudice against him, by not allowing others to think of assisting him; and, left to himself, he would die miserably before knowing his needs. We complain of the state of infancy; we do not see that, if man had not begun by being a child, the human race would
    have perished (p. 67).


    The author continues by talking about the possibility of
    perversion, and how once children figure out they can use
    people as tools they tend to "use them to carry out their
    wishes and to supplement their own weakness. This is how
    they become tiresome, masterful, imperious, naughty, and
    unmanageable; a development which does not spring from a
    natural love of power, but one which gives it to them, for it
    does not need much experience to realize how pleasant it is
    to act through the hands of others and to move the world by
    simply moving the tongue." This I feel is the fate of the
    character on Antichrist Svperstar. As the saying goes “As the
    child does not know how to be cured, let him know how to be
    ill." The character never became ill, and therefore never learnt
    how to cure himself.

    The cut that never heals.

    So how does this all relate to Marilyn Manson? Well, for one
    \thing I don't think it would be to anyone's surprise that the
    album is about Marilyn Manson through the character in the
    story. In a way, it foreshadows the future of the band in real
    \life and how much fame they would ultimately acquire in the
    coming years. Though I feel like that was the plan.
    But Marilyn Manson is a lot like the character as well. Marilyn
    Manson's origins are in the name, obviously. The character
    itself was born into stardom. Etc. So it definitely feels to me
    like a symbolic autobiography for the persona of Marilyn Manson.
    But through that are morals to the story as well.

    That's pretty much all I got from the album. Thoughts? Questons? Concerns? Etc.
    Last edited by Manson15Marilyn; 07-03-2015 at 11:48 AM.
    I am your vulture, your immoral sculpture, mirrorman who understands. I know you. I am you, your fantasy, reality.

    Don't be surprised I can look you in the eye. It's hard to take you serious when you take me inside.

    How the fuck are we supposed to know when I'm a monster in the way you refuse to die? How the fuck are we supposed to know if we're in love or if we're in pain?
    "Are we in love or are we in pain?"

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  3. #2
    kk_15's Avatar
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    That's a genuinely interesting read, thanks for sharing, I never connected the two together myself. I always imagined the trilogy of albums to be one overarching, cyclical storyline, kind of a parallel like a snake devouring its own tail with no certain beginning or end.

    Your theory could shed some light on the meaning behind the Autopsy video with Manson birthing an infant from his head.

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  5. #3
    Death and the Maiden Mercurius's Avatar
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    Interesting! I have also thought the protagonist of Mansons' plot to be a child, since Manson called the Holy Wood story an Oedipus story in the interview with Charlotte Roche, which makes sense when looking at alchemical symbolism.
    Sulphur (Sol) + Quicksilver (Luna) = philosophical Mercurius (incestuous)
    Father + Mother = son
    Hand + Gun = bullet (love song)
    I always saw the Man that you Fear video as a reflection of this relationship, since the mother figure in the video is first depicted as pregnant ( birth of a saint figure), next as Manson love interest , also shown through anointing his feet (Mary Magdalena), and finally as Mother Mary again, when she "cradles" Manson .
    In my opinion, the famous status of Manson protagonist can also be symbolic- a proto-celebrity.

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    kk_15's Avatar
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    "Mother Mary, miscarry..."

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    Not man enough to b human Manson15Marilyn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mercurius View Post
    Interesting! I have also thought the protagonist of Mansons' plot to be a child, since Manson called the Holy Wood story an Oedipus story in the interview with Charlotte Roche
    Personally, I think by that he meant how Adam was in rebellion. As the line goes:

    The Valley of Death, we are free. Your father is your prison, you see.

    But that is another discussion entirely.

    Anyway, I don't necessarily view the character a child throughout the album, but rather that part of the album deals with his childhood, another part his aging into an adult, and finally the present state as an adult to his martyrdom. But i do agree about the video. His death was dramatized a lot the same way jesus' was. After all, Manson described Jesus' death as a "blueprint" of sorts of becoming famous. Something along those lines...
    I am your vulture, your immoral sculpture, mirrorman who understands. I know you. I am you, your fantasy, reality.

    Don't be surprised I can look you in the eye. It's hard to take you serious when you take me inside.

    How the fuck are we supposed to know when I'm a monster in the way you refuse to die? How the fuck are we supposed to know if we're in love or if we're in pain?
    "Are we in love or are we in pain?"

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  11. #6
    Death and the Maiden Mercurius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manson15Marilyn View Post
    Personally, I think by that he meant how Adam was in rebellion. As the line goes:

    The Valley of Death, we are free. Your father is your prison, you see.

    But that is another discussion entirely.

    Anyway, I don't necessarily view the character a child throughout the album, but rather that part of the album deals with his childhood, another part his aging into an adult, and finally the present state as an adult to his martyrdom. But i do agree about the video. His death was dramatized a lot the same way jesus' was. After all, Manson described Jesus' death as a "blueprint" of sorts of becoming famous. Something along those lines...
    Sorry, my reply was quite unclear. I surely agree on the character not being a child throughout the trilogy, but at its beginning.

  12. #7
    Not man enough to b human Manson15Marilyn's Avatar
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    ^ Ah, of course. No worries.

    One thing that struck me as interesting is that at the end of the insert is Isaiah 66:24. Marilyn Manson had mentioned numerology as part of the process of the album, and 66:24 can translate into 66:6 if you [2+4=6]. Interestingly enough that particular verse is the only "66:24" in the entire bible. But what's so specific about it is the content of the verse itself.

    And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

    Emphasis is put on "their worm" in the insert. I'm kind of on the fence as to whether the verse is talking about parasites or about earthworms. However, Manson does seem to have put a different meaning to the verse to fit the concept of the album; just as he did with the Revelations verse. It makes me think of lines like:

    I looked ahead and saw a world that's dead. I guess that I am too

    When I'm god everyone dies

    And as the album goes on to tell, the character was once a worm himself. I think the way Manson uses this verse is that when the character dies, he becomes immortal; only in that symbolic sense of when a person dies for all to see he lives forever in his fame. "...their worm shall not die..." In the words of Charlie Manson in the courtroom:

    Bugliosi: "You say you are already dead, is that right, Charlie?"
    Manson: "Dead in your mind or dead in my mind?"
    Bugliosi: "Define it any way you want to."
    Manson: "As any child will tell you, dead is when you are no more. It is just when you are not there. If you weren't there, you would be dead."
    You can kill yourself now because you're dead in my mind.

    After the release of the album, Manson talked a lot about how the truth is only relative to how many people believe it. Basically, the more people 'believe' in the person who died the more he it true and exists in our society still. "...the more people believe in what I have to say, the truer it is."

    I say it is and its true
    Last edited by Manson15Marilyn; 07-03-2015 at 03:10 PM.
    I am your vulture, your immoral sculpture, mirrorman who understands. I know you. I am you, your fantasy, reality.

    Don't be surprised I can look you in the eye. It's hard to take you serious when you take me inside.

    How the fuck are we supposed to know when I'm a monster in the way you refuse to die? How the fuck are we supposed to know if we're in love or if we're in pain?
    "Are we in love or are we in pain?"

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