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Thread: Ascent & Descent

  1. #11
    Hallelujah motherfuckers thatrussianman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Casto View Post
    Honestly...i think we are all correct.
    I think he changes it in some instances to be hearts or half..i can no longer hear feathers no matter how hard i try. But that doesnt mean its not there.
    There was a study done that people hear music differently...i didnt read it but i mean it makes sense to me.
    I think that "feathers are wax" is a pretty clear reference to Icarus and doesn't need changing. Sometimes Manson's voice is hard to hear what he's actually saying, but that's just the way his voice is.
    I'm not actually Russian.

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  3. #12
    Hallelujah motherfuckers thatrussianman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.D. View Post
    What cataract777 has quoted is the precise lyric. The corresponding "and your artillery lead" does lead me to question whether Manson is combining the two, suggesting wings made of wax or lead, or both. Given his fascination with the Hindenberg disaster, and that incident's inspiration for Led Zeppelin's name, there is perhaps a connection.

    Then again, he could just be... waxing lyrical.
    The hindenburg and icarus are both occasions where somebody tried to fly and came falling back to earth. Probably a metaphor for no matter how hard he tries he cannot rise above, instead he sinks, hence "six feet deep".
    I'm not actually Russian.

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  5. #13
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    His own I Don't Like The Drugs... flight from the bridge, the persistent fallen angel motif in his work, and the "dead astronaut" idea during Mechanical Animals all promote this idea also. It's a pretty recurring feature, in fact, presumably one he enjoys revisiting. The god Mercury, on whom Manson has styled himself, was also prone to unpredictability as he used his ability to fly to move from place to place as a messenger.

    However, it is possible Deep Six suggests that in one's inevitable fall, Manson, instead of becoming prone, will perhaps kill his enemies; "the Devil beneath my feet".

    "Fallen, fallen, fallen from grace now for you. This is why you should run"
    "the Serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which
    the LORD god had made
    "

    m e m e n t o m o r i . p o s t m o r t e m


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  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.D. View Post
    His own I Don't Like The Drugs... flight from the bridge, the persistent fallen angel motif in his work, and the "dead astronaut" idea during Mechanical Animals all promote this idea also. It's a pretty recurring feature, in fact, presumably one he enjoys revisiting. The god Mercury, on whom Manson has styled himself, was also prone to unpredictability as he used his ability to fly to move from place to place as a messenger.

    However, it is possible Deep Six suggests that in one's inevitable fall, Manson, instead of becoming prone, will perhaps kill his enemies; "the Devil beneath my feet".

    "Fallen, fallen, fallen from grace now for you. This is why you should run"
    I really like this. You REALLY should write a more in depth essay about this. Seriously.
    We all have opinions and ideas. They deserve more than just a paragraph in a forum.

    I have read so many creative and outstanding ideas from people in here. I want to read more! I am utterly fascinated by everyone's brain. When it is kept somewhat logical.

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  9. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by thatrussianman View Post
    Google Icarus. That should clear up ya'lls questions.
    Oh I did. Definitely makes you understand the song more.

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  11. #16
    HEAVEN UPSIDE DOWN Hazekiah's Avatar
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    I think the general overview of the song's imagery is actually pretty cleverly straightforward...or downward as it were.

    Manson-as-Icarus attempts to elevate his Narcissistic ego but his feathers of wax are melting as he flies too close to the sun and he's taking fire of leaden artillery from below, its weight dragging him down and causing him to drown in his own reflection while sinking to his watery grave in hell on the bed of the ocean floor, with the water representing the depths of the human subconscious and the opening and closing lyrics borrowed from the The Age of Manipulation referencing the art of subliminal suggestion while the inverted wordplay is reflective of that same dynamic, if you will.

    All neat and tidy.

    \m/

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  13. #17
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    I remember being initially annoyed he didn't release the lyrics, but I got to thinking.

    Music is art...it should be interpreted differently by everyone.

    For many years, I thought the lyrics to "15" was "Bloodletting...won't satisfy me. I'll teach you about loss." as in Manson was saying he was cutting himself in a way to purge "her" from himself. Then when I read the actual lyrics, it lost a little punch.

    I think it would have been cool if there was a little mystery around it..ah well.

    Another example is, I thought he was saying "Scars on my fingers, bruises my neck, crushing my chains" as in referring to being a slave in "Warship My Wreck". The way I interpreted it was completely different from the actual meaning.

    Eh, sorry, I'm rambling.

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  15. #18
    Hallelujah motherfuckers thatrussianman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hazekiah View Post
    I think the general overview of the song's imagery is actually pretty cleverly straightforward...or downward as it were.

    Manson-as-Icarus attempts to elevate his Narcissistic ego but his feathers of wax are melting as he flies too close to the sun and he's taking fire of leaden artillery from below, its weight dragging him down and causing him to drown in his own reflection while sinking to his watery grave in hell on the bed of the ocean floor, with the water representing the depths of the human subconscious and the opening and closing lyrics borrowed from the The Age of Manipulation referencing the art of subliminal suggestion while the inverted wordplay is reflective of that same dynamic, if you will.

    All neat and tidy.

    \m/
    This^^^
    I'm not actually Russian.

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  17. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elizabeth Casto View Post
    I really like this. You REALLY should write a more in depth essay about this. Seriously.
    We all have opinions and ideas. They deserve more than just a paragraph in a forum.
    I might look back a page or two and see whether or not these posts focusing on Deep Six can be consolidated into an analysis conversation rather than the Grammy topic.
    On a few occasions I have touched on these ideas, although to be fair they are reasonably implicit in Manson's work, rather than being something that needs seeking out. I offered some ideas on what I believe to be a representation of Marilyn Monroe HERE, in discussion about Coma White. Building upon those ideas, it becomes easier to segue into a discussion of wings, winged creatures, Apoidea, Lepidoptera, and mythical representations of flight.

    Consider Antichrist Superstar and the transition of Wormboy. It's a basic pupae transformation, implicitly represented in both the artwork, lyrics, and accompanying videos for the album. Move forward to Mechanical Animals, and Manson talks of being a 'moth to the flame', and 'dead astronaut'. The same flies that "lay their eggs" during Antichrist... are "waiting" during Holy Wood, just prior to The Fall Of Adam...

    The motif is continuous, and features on virtually every Marilyn Manson album.
    During Better Of Two Evils, he says "I will step on you on my way up, and I will step on you on my way down", reflecting what I suggested about Deep Six. Other lyrics such as "thought I was a butterfly next to your flame", If I Was Your Vampire (synonymous with the flying bat), the "exterminating angel" of the rather more obvious The High End Of Low - including of course, I Have To Look Up Just To See Hell - then later Overneath The Path Of Misery, Breaking The Same Old Ground, all of these leading into the more recent The Pale Emperor, which is cock-full of Luciferan, Icarus-esque imagery.

    I think reading Manson's book, you develop a picture of a man who from an early age, was obsessed with this notion of Heaven and Hell, later creating an entire oeuvre of art that circulates the 'As Above, So Below' maxim of Hermeticism. Most recently he has sealed that duality, with Odds Of Even proclaiming that "even angels die in the arms of demons". No one can escape the fall, the odds, make us even.
    "the Serpent was more crafty than any beast of the field which
    the LORD god had made
    "

    m e m e n t o m o r i . p o s t m o r t e m


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  19. #20
    Death and the Maiden Mercurius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S.D. View Post
    I might look back a page or two and see whether or not these posts focusing on Deep Six can be consolidated into an analysis conversation rather than the Grammy topic.
    On a few occasions I have touched on these ideas, although to be fair they are reasonably implicit in Manson's work, rather than being something that needs seeking out. I offered some ideas on what I believe to be a representation of Marilyn Monroe HERE, in discussion about Coma White. Building upon those ideas, it becomes easier to segue into a discussion of wings, winged creatures, Apoidea, Lepidoptera, and mythical representations of flight.

    Consider Antichrist Superstar and the transition of Wormboy. It's a basic pupae transformation, implicitly represented in both the artwork, lyrics, and accompanying videos for the album. Move forward to Mechanical Animals, and Manson talks of being a 'moth to the flame', and 'dead astronaut'. The same flies that "lay their eggs" during Antichrist... are "waiting" during Holy Wood, just prior to The Fall Of Adam...

    The motif is continuous, and features on virtually every Marilyn Manson album.
    During Better Of Two Evils, he says "I will step on you on my way up, and I will step on you on my way down", reflecting what I suggested about Deep Six. Other lyrics such as "thought I was a butterfly next to your flame", If I Was Your Vampire (synonymous with the flying bat), the "exterminating angel" of the rather more obvious The High End Of Low - including of course, I Have To Look Up Just To See Hell - then later Overneath The Path Of Misery, Breaking The Same Old Ground, all of these leading into the more recent The Pale Emperor, which is cock-full of Luciferan, Icarus-esque imagery.

    I think reading Manson's book, you develop a picture of a man who from an early age, was obsessed with this notion of Heaven and Hell, later creating an entire oeuvre of art that circulates the 'As Above, So Below' maxim of Hermeticism. Most recently he has sealed that duality, with Odds Of Even proclaiming that "even angels die in the arms of demons". No one can escape the fall, the odds, make us even.
    This is a very reflected and coherent analysis- I cannot choose but virtually applaud.
    Manson has managed to abstract his life artistically, so that the trivial, and yet sublime failure of man becomes a parable for life in general, and a cathartic process.

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