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Thread: Pogo Goes Full Man-child

  1. #71
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    With the exception of people who got themselves fired, I think most people saw from MA onward manson became a Bowie style project for the other musicians. At time Manson works with the same people for a few albums, other times he branches out to do something different. The illusion of him needing to keep the same lineup is just holding onto the past. Even when Manson shakes up his lineup he can consider it his band of brothers, his 4 rusted horses or what have you. His only obligation is to work with who he wants to for what he wants to do. If that's Twiggy, Tyler, or someone new altogether I don't care. His band lineups have been strong, and he's going to have a great band regardless of who is in tow.

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  3. #72

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    It'd be neat if Manson added something way out of left-field to the lineup. Laugh all you want, but a keytar might be interesting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shangri-LIE View Post
    ... Yes, Tyler was a short term fixture, and while there was no animosity, I believe there was a a user, (possibly The Overman?), where he met Tyler at a bar and reported back the things that I just cited.
    Yeah, that was me.

    I tiptoed around asking Tyler directly, because it's necessary to be diplomatic about this sort of thing, and he tiptoed around answering it directly, because nobody wants to give a scoop to someone who isn't even a journalist, but Tyler made pretty clear that his stint in the live incarnation of Marilyn Manson was going to be a temporary one, because Tyler always has a hundred things going on - he'd just done the score for Guardians Of The Galaxy at the time. My takeaway was very much not that he harbors any kind of grievance against Manson, and in his case in particular he basically confirmed that he was in fact a "revolving collaborator".

    Quote Originally Posted by The Overman View Post
    Tyler's a consummate gentleman, and comes across as very intelligent. The impression I got is that this is a one-off affair for a friend rather than a permanent gig (he was adamant that he was not hired on for his part in the band), and he's not making money he could otherwise earn from scoring films doing this. I'll be sad to see him go if and when he does, and I'd love it if he at least produced the next Marilyn Manson record.
    Oh, yeah: I didn't mention this at the time in the interests of Tyler's privacy, but we're far enough removed from it now that I feel comfortable with it - Tyler mentioned that he and his wife had just had a baby not long before the tour commenced, which I'm sure probably contributed to the temporary nature of his position within Marilyn Manson.

    TL;DR: I'm 90% certain that Tyler Bates was a member of Marilyn Manson pro bono.

  4. #73
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    Personally, as I've enjoyed every Marilyn Manson record, (and even expressed that I've felt more aligned with/more moved by THEOL/EMDM), with the exception of Born Villain and really have nothing invested in it/what Marilyn Manson does. I really don't care about who got "screwed". But to me, I've always felt that if you have a great line up that works, and MA/HW/GAOG did have drastic changes both aesthetically, conceptually and sonically, that is how the formation should have stayed. And it's not out of nostalgia, but it worked. The band had a real consistent identity. Not to take anything away with members who have come along and gone since then. It's just that if you have a band that works, then stick with it. That and the changes have been drastic. It's not just like every once in a while, replacing a drummer or a guitarist. But it seems like every era now. That and on a personal note, most/a lot of my favorite bands have stuck together and had permanent fixture for the first part. So what, everything, I have had to say isn't a personal attack on Manson, but I just find it rather...."Wtf". And that's all I can really say/know how to put it right now. It's only 6 AM.
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  5. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overman View Post
    It'd be neat if Manson added something way out of left-field to the lineup. Laugh all you want, but a keytar might be interesting.
    Pogo used to play one extensively in the ACSS days, as well as at times on the GGG tour, so I'm not sure how left-field it would really be. But you're right in that keytars are fucking tops.
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    The only problem that I have though is with Spencer. He really didn't do anything and pretty much pantomimed actually playing the keyboard/samples. So, I don't/never really considered him a part of the band as much as I do/did consider him to be just a stage prop. LOL - Seriously, he really actually fucking contributed nothing musically to ANY of the shows.
    Last edited by Shangri-LIE; 02-19-2016 at 05:39 AM.
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  7. #76
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    I'd love it if Manson could acquire the greatest live keyboard player of all time for a tour... Flake from Rammstein. He puts on an amazing show, and actually plays too.

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    To disagree, doesn't mean anyone isanti-MM. I like MM more, but I;m trying to be impartial, and consider the facts. Pogo has done this/been doing this for years, as are most unsuccessful band members bitter: and that is why they are bitter, imo.

    However, on the flipside...consider this... next post *had to segment it, because of 403 error face, so sorry about that*

    I always liked Pogo. He was always my second most liked band member. MM being number one. He GOT MM's beautiful idea better than anyone else, imo, besides MM himself. Towards the end of his run, however, he got lackadaisical about his stay, the fun and freshness all warn out. It's sad - to watch the old Spooky Kids through ACSS, and even MA, where everything was fucking FUN! - but after MA, especially after MA, everything felt like a job. And, I cannot blame Pogo from fucking things up; it's all he knew had to do. MM switched gears by this point, and Pogo was stuck in fucking persona.

    MM was getting into Hollywood, befriending Johnny Depp, getting to know glamorize motherfuckers, whereas Pogo felt disenfranchised from the band because that's EXACTLY what they were criticizing - HOLLOW WOOD. Imagine if YOU were Pogo, how that would feel. I think it's really sad, because for Pogo, it was like being deprived of all the awesome moments of the early days of the band, when he fit. But, in life, cannot live in the past, and Pogo hasn't learned that lesson yet. OR, he could just be trolling with these anti-MM comments, to stay relevant. Unfortunately, MM hate is his only CHANCE at stay relevant and making money and surviving- so whether you like the former members who talk shit, they do it because they HAVE to.

    Maybe SOME bitterness is there, but it's mostly for business. And becoming famous and making a lot of money, as much as people want to say how amazing MM is for doing what he did, there is NO recipe. He was very lucky, got a shot, and ran with it. It's not because the former members are talentless hacks or anything - easier said than done - try to be in another superstar-esque band after getting fired from one - unless you are friends with others who will let you it, say good fucking bye.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Penance Sentence View Post
    I always liked Pogo. He was always my second most liked band member. MM being number one. He GOT MM's beautiful idea better than anyone else, imo, besides MM himself. Towards the end of his run, however, he got lackadaisical about his stay, the fun and freshness all warn out. It's sad - to watch the old Spooky Kids through ACSS, and even MA, where everything was fucking FUN! - but after MA, especially after MA, everything felt like a job. And, I cannot blame Pogo from fucking things up; it's all he knew had to do. MM switched gears by this point, and Pogo was stuck in fucking persona.

    MM was getting into Hollywood, befriending Johnny Depp, getting to know glamorize motherfuckers, whereas Pogo felt disenfranchised from the band because that's EXACTLY what they were criticizing - HOLLOW WOOD. Imagine if YOU were Pogo, how that would feel. I think it's really sad, because for Pogo, it was like being deprived of all the awesome moments of the early days of the band, when he fit. But, in life, cannot live in the past, and Pogo hasn't learned that lesson yet. OR, he could just be trolling with these anti-MM comments, to stay relevant. Unfortunately, MM hate is his only CHANCE at stay relevant and making money and surviving- so whether you like the former members who talk shit, they do it because they HAVE to.

    Maybe SOME bitterness is there, but it's mostly for business. And becoming famous and making a lot of money, as much as people want to say how amazing MM is for doing what he did, there is NO recipe. He was very lucky, got a shot, and ran with it. It's not because the former members are talentless hacks or anything - easier said than done - try to be in another superstar-esque band after getting fired from one - unless you are friends with others who will let you it, say good fucking bye.
    I think that's one of the best assessments mentioned in here so far. The rest is just "Fan Politics". And as I've said, Pogo has always been insane. Manson was intimidated by him. Even whenever he first met him, as he described, *loosely*, he thought that Pogo had some serious fucking mental issues. All of the Kabbalistic themes/references and Numerology were mostly Pogo's influence in the artwork, music and overall development of Marilyn Manson as a band. The reason that Pogo, unlike Daisy, isn't successful in the Music Industry anymore is because even before he joined the band, he wasn't a musician. He still isn't by trade. So, I'd be bitter as well because what Marilyn Manson was whenever he joined the band, and up through MA, was the only band he was/is capable of being in. It wasn't really about the music, but about the lifestyle, intent and delivery. Even whenever it came to the development of Manson's fashion/style, much of it was re-framed by artists who were collaborating with the band, or friends of the band, Pogo and Gidget as well. And Manson has in the past given them credit for it. Manson has even said that for a long time, he forgot what it was to be Marilyn Manson/what it represented, and you can't say that he's always had the same "drive" or "vision" whenever he's openly admitted this. I think that he's getting it back now, only it's not in the form of elaborate concepts with meanings that a lot of People, fans especially, desperately want to decode and create a meaning out of, even if that's not at all what he meant. So, I think that The Pale Emperor is a step in the right direction and is actually more "Marilyn Manson" than any other incarnation or persona during any other past era/record. It's just him. There aren't many easy points of reference or influence, even though we can make them up. We can cite literary or other musical influences, which I think that we've been more dependent on his music being than he has. Even whenever it came to all of the Analyses on the NK. He said something to the degree of "I learned more about myself from those interpretations", implying that it was mostly fan fiction, even if it wasn't very far from the truth.
    Last edited by Shangri-LIE; 02-21-2016 at 04:52 AM.
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  12. #79

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    Again, it's not like numerology or the kabbalah are really legitimately esoteric shit. I see Pogo get praised to high heaven for "bringing those influences into the band", but it's not like they're this really cryptic bit of information your typical goth with a taste for the occult could be generally expected not to know.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Overman View Post
    Again, it's not like numerology or the kabbalah are really legitimately esoteric shit. I see Pogo get praised to high heaven for "bringing those influences into the band", but it's not like they're this really cryptic bit of information your typical goth with a taste for the occult could be generally expected not to know.
    That's very true, but that's also what drew a lot of peoples interest to those records. It wasn't just the music.
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