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Thread: "What If" (alt universe questions)

  1. #1
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    Default "What If" (alt universe questions)

    Two questions:

    If Columbine never happened, or MM, reacted to it differently (encouraging that behavior, e.g), where would MM be now?

    If Trent Reznor never produced MM, would MM be a Punk/Noise/Underground artist?

    (don't get me wrong, he does NOT owe all of his success to Trent, and I think MM is much more than Trent, but he may have never had the opportunity to make a very well-produced album like MA without Trent helping him get his foot in the door. He made MA after Trent helped make a ACSS a recognizable record. ACSS 1994 demo is as raw as some of the Noise I listen to. Seriously.)

    Edit: Title change. Maybe made content more convenient and to the point. Topic already been beaten to death, I bet, anyway.
    Last edited by Penance Sentence; 02-22-2016 at 08:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Penance Sentence View Post
    Two questions:

    If Columbine never happened, or MM, reacted to it differently (encouraging that behavior, e.g), where would MM be now?
    I don't know if the fact that Columbine never happened would change much, perhaps Holy Would would sounds differently and would not be so gun-focused, but that's all I can think of. On the other hand, considering the butterfly effect, he could as well be dead by now.
    What would happen if he would encourage such behavior? I would guess - in jail.


    Quote Originally Posted by Penance Sentence View Post
    If Trent Reznor never produced MM, would MM be a Punk/Noise/Underground artist?
    His sound, especially in the beginning could be more raw, but the most important change would be that Manson would have a much harder start. The tour he played with NIN seems to have boosted his career in the early days.

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    How about this:

    What if he never met Dita, or Evan? What if he never did EMDM and went on to the Celebritarian album? What if he never did the PJ cover? What if he never went into that "Quiting Music" phase? Or his depression from 2008-2009? Where would he be if he never covered Sweet Dreams? Or ever heard of David Bowie?
    All these outcomes, the Butterfly Effect.
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    I have actually thought about these following questions a lot for quite some time. This thread is also the perfect place to mention them.

    What if Marilyn Manson performed Woodstock 1999?

    What if 9/11 never happened? Do you also think Marilyn Manson would have also been taken differently? Would a different type of album have surfaced in your opinion?

    I also brought that up because I also think that things might have also gone down differently, both musically and controversially/publicity-wise for Marilyn Manson if the Columbine High School massacre and 9/11 never happened. The early to mid 2000s would've been probably like another wave of 1995-1999 for him too. Although, it seems nearly impossible to ask that sort of question without looking heartless and inconsiderate.

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    I always asked myself if anything would be different if Manson was born as an elephant. I think the albums would sound almost the same except for maybe his voice, I imagine it would sound more like a trumpet. But with that crazy butterfly effect...who knows.

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    I've seen elephants that paint, so I think MansonElephant wouldve been successful.

    However, had Columbine NOT happened, Holywood would not exist. Maybe an alternate version, but no. That is the only thing I know for certain, the rest is in the air... fluttering about, making gestures here and there.. maybe the death of manson wouldve occured had he not been cornered into solitude for a while.

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    For a long time, during "Angel With the Scabbed Wings" - I misheard "Rock n' Roll Sores" as in "Rock n' Roll'aSaurs". Which carried over into Mechanical Animals, and whenever I heard that album title I was like "Hmm, well this is going to be interesting". Thinking that he went from being the bringer of the Apocalypse in American Households, which there have been many extinctions, and that it was going to be about aninimatronic steel creatures that were going to run amok in Hollywood.

    As for this thread, I sometimes think that he got lucky. But those are just my two cents. Not that he isn't one HELL of an artist.
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    Here are some serious "What if's". What if Manson were to have been killed on the Guns, God and Government tour by someone who blamed him for Columbine or a Christian Protester? Not that I'd like to have seen that happen.

    What if Manson never moved to Florida? Would he have been more of a redneck-punk noise band?

    What if Marilyn Manson never had studied the genre that he went into or interviewed Trent Reznor?

    What if he had never met Daisy who recorded most of their earliest songs with a practice amp and a 4 Track Recorder? LOL

    What if Manson had never gone on the Jon Stewart show or showed up a a fan guest at the Headbangers Ball?
    OMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOMNOM


  16. #10

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    I actually really did think MA was referring to animatronic steel creatures when I first heard the title when a friend burned me the cd in freshman year high school and I rushed home to listen to it on my cd player.

    I think about these type of things from time to time. Everyone seems to think Holy Wood would not have existed if it wasn't for Columbine, and it would have certainly been very different. I'm a firm believer in the butterfly effect aka Determinism. But he was very much still in an aggressive phase and I could still see it being sort of similar. What I do think is that if he never have met Dita, we never would have gotten GAOG. That album is CLEARLY inspired and influenced by her/their relationship. They met shortly after Holy Wood, right? His love/infatuation for her MUST have DEEPLY inspired him to go that route with that sort of topic/imagery/time frame. The same can be said if they never divorced and he never met Evan, surely we would have gotten something very different from EMDM and THEOL.

    But honestly, the only reason we talk about these events in his life and these albums is because it is the most transparent and obvious. The same can be said for every album, every painting, every cover, every lyric he ever wrote on a hotel napkin. We just may not always have such an inside picture of what is going on in his life (and really, we don't have THAT much anyway....let's not fool ourselves or be greedy crazed fans trying to get in the guys personal life...) but it seems clear at least based on the info that he willingly gave us. Whatever was going on during Spooky Kids days affected Spooky Kids. All the relationships and friends and enemies and books and music he listened to inspired Portrait....and Antichrist....and Born Villain....and Pale Emperor....All of it. Rose McGowen could have easily been just as responsible and influencial for us getting Mechanical Animals as Dita was for Golden Age as Evan was for Eat Me Drink Me as his current girl for Pale Emperor...and that's just women. All other relationships factor in, every breathe of air and sight and smell and internet porn he watches....and film and museum. That's just how Determinism works. He didn't have a choice but to make what he made, and he did exactly what he would have done in exactly that moment and could not have acted otherwise. If you were him, molecule for molecule, gene for gene, experience for experience, you would have done the exact same too, and the same goes for bad people like serial killers too.


    EDIT

    Now let's start discussing these hypothetical possibilities! There has been so many offered on the table to think about. Should be fun to dissect them.

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